My ideas for new train services.

[FQ]

I doubt we'll see any true circulars (that continue on without an end point) in the foreseeable future as it is very hard to recover if any time is lost unless there's lots of padding in the timetable which makes the service less attractive..

Would also possibly open up all sorts of ticketing loopholes.

You are definitely right about the ticketing loopholes as track bashers could buy a York-Poppleton ticket and go via Leeds and Harrogate.

 

[Tomnick]

I doubt we'll see any true circulars (that continue on without an end point) in the foreseeable future as it is very hard to recover if any time is lost unless there's lots of padding in the timetable which makes the service less attractive.

Possibly even worse than usual in this case, with the constraints of the single line sections east of Knaresborough combined with the need to fit between fast trains between Leeds and York (direct) - and, as you say, all for what purpose?!

 

[higthomas]

I am amazed that anyone leaves any circulars in the timetable, as I am sure that there must be some who exploit the system on all of them. After all, it can be easily prevented as was seen on the fife circle loco hauled circulars, although of course these will have had an unusually high number of enthusiasts.

 

[Deerfold]

Possibly even worse than usual in this case, with the constraints of the single line sections east of Knaresborough combined with the need to fit between fast trains between Leeds and York (direct) - and, as you say, all for what purpose?!

I suspect they would be like the Carlisle - Nottingham once a week service which I caught just over a week ago. I think 2 people remained on it at Leeds (where it is timetabled to remain for 17 minutes - and we arrived 6 minutes early).

 

[samogers]

But every time you send a service east of Southampton at xx34 you'd have to retime the corresponding xx33 Southern Brighton service. So basically you are providing yet another unnecessary duplicate with a similar calling pattern to a Brighton service that already runs.

Sorry, forgot about Southern's XX:33 Brighton service

Screw that idea then!

 

[Muzer]

Sorry, forgot about Southern's XX:33 Brighton service

Screw that idea then!

Yeah, that line really is quite full, unfortunately, so not much else is going to fit.

A Reading to Brighton service would be handy for making Brighton one change away from the whole main line down there, which would be an improvement on the current situation of it being two changes away unless you're lucky enough to catch the FGW Brighton extensions. But I think, didn't SWT used to run that? I'm guessing they had to put the rolling stock to better use elsewhere.

In a way, I can certainly see the advantage of focusing on the "core" services and getting rid of the few-trains-per-day oddities that are merely extensions of existing services into places that are already well-served from elsewhere. If you make frequencies good on the core routes, although connections are still a pain the timings will work out a lot nicer than otherwise - and the trains won't be overcrowded if they do it right

If the Southampton/Brighton FGW terminators were all sacrificed, for example, Weymouth/Heart of Wales Line which is currently rather poorly-served could get a very respectable service in that direction (perhaps some line upgrades would be required). Overcrowding could be eased a little and it would become significantly more useful, like the Portsmouth-Cardiff services are now due to the hourly clockface timetable. This is just an example, and I haven't totally thought it through - it may be that they provide a vital service linking stations towards Great Malvern with Southampton/Bristol to Brighton, I don't know. But clearly similar choices have been made elsewhere, generally to the significant improvement of the service as a whole despite the rather large tradeoff of the lack of through services to certain places.

 

[bILLOO]

A 4th LM service via Northampton, possibly starting at Rugby and becoming non-stop after Northampton or MKC?

 

[FQ]

A 4th LM service via Northampton, possibly starting at Rugby and becoming non-stop after Northampton or MKC?

Would there be room for it on a weekday as you already have 3 services via Northampton and all the freight.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Would there be room for it on a weekday as you already have 3 services via Northampton and all the freight.

I think Rugby-Northampton-Euston was on the cards a long time ago to replace the Crewe service when it began to run via Weedon. I'm sure some paths must remain via Northampton - if not the one vacated by the Crewe service then I imagine there must be one elsewhere. The only problem I can envisage (as far as pathing goes) would be trying to fit it in after MKC / Tring.

 

[bILLOO]

I think Rugby-Northampton-Euston was on the cards a long time ago to replace the Crewe service when it began to run via Weedon. I'm sure some paths must remain via Northampton - if not the one vacated by the Crewe service then I imagine there must be one elsewhere. The only problem I can envisage (as far as pathing goes) would be trying to fit it in after MKC / Tring.

It would be nice to give Northampton a 4th train per hour, especially if it was a non-stopper from Northampton (not that I don't like catching the Buzzard Express). Could it fit in just after another Virgin Service after Hanslope Junction and run non-stop to London? I wonder if such a service is even required (off peak, the loadings at Northampton seem OK with the 3 trains per hour).

 

[FQ]

It would be nice to give Northampton a 4th train per hour, especially if it was a non-stopper from Northampton (not that I don't like catching the Buzzard Express). Could it fit in just after another Virgin Service after Hanslope Junction and run non-stop to London? I wonder if such a service is even required (off peak, the loadings at Northampton seem OK with the 3 trains per hour).

I think it would be good to run a quick service like this maybe from Preston (because LM don't go that far now) because EVERY time I have travelled from Rugby to London via Northampton I have been shoved off the pair of 350s and put onto a single 350 which was already full. Another train would really benefit.
It could call at Preston, Wigan North Western, Warrington Bank Quay, Crewe, Stafford, Lichfield Trent Valley, Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Northampton and London Euston. Now LM are getting more 350s they have enough traction to do that service.

 

[43074]

It could call at Preston, Wigan North Western, Warrington Bank Quay, Crewe, Stafford, Lichfield Trent Valley, Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Northampton and London Euston. Now LM are getting more 350s they have enough traction to do that service.

The 10 new 350/3s are to be used as follows: 7 on additional 110mph services between London Euston and Northampton, and the remaining 3 on the CrossCity line in Birmingham, so Bromsgrove & Redditch can both have 3tph each. Therefore there won't be any capacity in the fleet to introduce your proposed Preston service. Only until the December timetable change will they have spare trains in sidings, and even then I believe the 350/1s are due an overhaul, so some of the 350/3s will be used to release these.

I agree LM should serve Preston though, I thought there was a proposal a few years ago that involved sending the Trent Valley service to Liverpool and then diverting one of the Birmingham services to Preston. It would probably have to wait until the West Coast timetable recast in 2016 for that to happen anyway, I doubt there are any paths avaliable North of Crewe.

 

[sprinterguy]

The 10 new 350/3s are to be used as follows...and the remaining 3 on the CrossCity line in Birmingham

Albeit indirectly: A couple will be used on the Walsall to Wolverhampton services, and the third probably on the International stopper, to release 323s for the Cross-City.

 

[alwaystouchout]

Perhaps the existing LM London Euston to Crewe service could alternate between Liverpool and Preston?

 

[northwichcat]

Perhaps the existing LM London Euston to Crewe service could alternate between Liverpool and Preston?

The problem with alternating destinations is you'll finish up with stations like Winsford having departure times like 11:00, 11:30, 13:00 rather than 11:00, 12:00, 13:00.

 

[FQ]

I don't know if patching would allow this but maybe an hourly service from London to Bidston (Mersyside) and half hourly during the Peak times.It could go from different London stations each time like 1st Euston, 2nd Marylebone, 3rd Paddington, 4th from Euston, 5th from Marylebone and so on.The calling points for the one from Euston could be London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Northampton, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington?, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.
The one from dromedary Marylebone could go the same route as the old Wrexham and Shropshire trains to Wrexham before diverging to Bidston. The calling points of this could be Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Tame Bridge Parkway, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.
The one from Paddington could call at Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington?, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't know if patching would allow this but maybe an hourly service from London to Bidston (Mersyside) and half hourly during the Peak times.It could go from different London stations each time like 1st Euston, 2nd Marylebone, 3rd Paddington, 4th from Euston, 5th from Marylebone and so on.The calling points for the one from Euston could be London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Northampton, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington?, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.
The one from dromedary Marylebone could go the same route as the old Wrexham and Shropshire trains to Wrexham before diverging to Bidston. The calling points of this could be Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Tame Bridge Parkway, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.
The one from Paddington could call at Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington?, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.

Are you trolling?

Sounds like you're trying to make life as difficult as possible for timetable planners and passengers alike - and still not giving any reasons as to why we might want these services.

 

[alex17595]

I don't know if patching would allow this but maybe an hourly service from London to Bidston (Mersyside) and half hourly during the Peak times.It could go from different London stations each time like 1st Euston, 2nd Marylebone, 3rd Paddington, 4th from Euston, 5th from Marylebone and so on.The calling points for the one from Euston could be London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Northampton, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington?, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.
The one from dromedary Marylebone could go the same route as the old Wrexham and Shropshire trains to Wrexham before diverging to Bidston. The calling points of this could be Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Tame Bridge Parkway, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.
The one from Paddington could call at Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington?, Shrewsbury, Gobowan, Wrexham General, Shotton and Bidston.

Why Bidston? I have been to Bidston once and the Merseyrail train was very lightly loaded and I sat in the front coach of the ATW train, the only person I saw until I got off at Shotton was the guard. In all likelihood changing at Lime Street would be faster.

 

[FQ]

Are you trolling?

Sounds like you're trying to make life as difficult as possible for timetable planners and passengers alike - and still not giving any reasons as to why we might want these services.

Well it gives London direct links with Shrewsbury and more frequent services to Wrexham. Also it gives London direct links with west Liverpool.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why Bidston? I have been to Bidston once and the Merseyrail train was very lightly loaded and I sat in the front coach of the ATW train, the only person I saw until I got off at Shotton was the guard. In all likelihood changing at Lime Street would be faster.

OK maybe only run it to Wrexham and a couple through to Bidston.

 

[43074]

OK maybe only run it to Wrexham [snip].

You mean like Wrexham & Shropshire... whose three trains per day were sadly discontinued. Therefore, how an hourly service can possibly be justified is beyond me.
And why from 5 different London termini! Keep the timetable simple at the very least!


Keep up the enthusiasm though, but I'm not sure your proposals are entirely realistic
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well it gives London direct links with Shrewsbury

Surely better to extend a few of the Euston to Birminghams?

...and more frequent services to Wrexham.

That could probably be provided as a 153 shuttle between Shrewsbury & Chester, although the single track in places between them would probably prevent this (I don't know the route very well, so am happy to be corrected)

...Also it gives London direct links with west Liverpool.

A change at Lime Street would give faster journeys.

 

[FQ]

Surely better to extend a few of the Euston to Birminghams?

Most of the Birmingham's are 390s so they can't carry on from Wolverhampton.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

London-Bidston was one of my proposed journeys looking at my word document for fantasy services way back from 2010

That said, the idea of Euston-Bidston alone is just stupid. I'm not even going to touch on the MYB and PAD services.

Also, Bidston is not west Liverpool.

 

[43074]

Most of the Birmingham's are 390s so they can't carry on from Wolverhampton.

a) Diagrams can probably be shuffled to release a pair of 221s from the Edinburgh/Glasgow - Birmingham - London service, if a Pendolino could replace it.
b) The route is likely to be electrified in the next few years
c) A reasonable Shrewsbury to London service is unlikely to happen anytime soon anyway.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I also assume you want to run this service with a voyager. Where would you get them from?

 

[FQ]

How about a crazy service going from London Paddington-London Marylebone so you don't need to walk, bus or tube it.
It could call at London Marylebone, Bicester North, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick Parkway, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Stourbridge Junction, Kidderminster, Droitwich Spa, Worcester Shrub Hill, Evesham, Morton-in-Marsh, Oxford, Reading and London Paddington.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I don't know if you are ****ing about or being serious??

 

[sprinterguy]

Most of the Birmingham's are 390s so they can't carry on from Wolverhampton.

It would undoubtedly be far easier to re-jig Virgins' diagrams to put more Pendolinos on Birmingham to Scotland services to free up Voyagers to run through to Shrewsbury, than it would be to roster trains and crew on a bizarre service from four different London terminals to nowhere in particular.

In fact, I think that Virgins' current thinking is that they will extend two Wolverhampton trains each day to start/end at Shrewsbury in order to give the Shropshire town a direct London service from December.

 

[FQ]

I don't know if you are ****ing about or being serious??

Definitely a no go. I was just Kidding.

 

[sprinterguy]

You mean like Wrexham & Shropshire... whose three trains per day were sadly discontinued.

If I remember correctly, Wrexham & Shropshire's service increased to five trains each way at its' zenith, before contracting to four shortly before they were, sadly, shut down.

 

[alex17595]

What are the current loadings like on Virgin to Wrexham?