My ideas for new train services.

[Starmill]

I've thought for a while the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff or the Nottingham - Cardiff could continue westward to Swansea. The XC probably offers better connections. It could continue beyond Nottingham the other direction too, perhaps to Lincoln.

 

[FQ]

I've thought for a while the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff or the Nottingham - Cardiff could continue westward to Swansea. The XC probably offers better connections. It could continue beyond Nottingham the other direction too, perhaps to Lincoln.

Great idea as it would give XC direct services to the heart of wales. It could call at Lincoln, Collingham, Newark Castle, Fiskerton, Bleasby, Lowdham, Nottingham then all the normal stations until Cardiff Central before caring on calling at Cardiff Central, Llanharan, Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea. Also maybe extend a few from Swansea onto Carmarthen calling at Swansea, Llanelli, Pembrey and Burry Port, Kidwelly, Ferryside and Carmarthen.

 

[Tomnick]

Ah, Bleasby International - such an important hub certainly deserves a better service to such far flung destinations.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Ah, Bleasby International - such an important hub certainly deserves a better service to such far flung destinations.

Even more than Thurgarton does!


Which was missed out! how can you not include Thurgarton?

 

[FQ]

Even more than Thurgarton does!


Which was missed out! how can you not include Thurgarton?

Maybe some of them could stop at Thurgarton as well but the fast ones just Lincoln, Newark Castle, Bleasby and Nottingham.

 

[Tomnick]

Or just Lincoln - Newark - Nottingham rather than just picking out random dots on the atlas?!

 

[FQ]

Or just Lincoln - Newark - Nottingham rather than just picking out random dots on the atlas?!

I guess that would be better for a fast service.

 

[Tomnick]

Exactly, that'd be the main benefit of any extension of an XC service (one of the few practical and worthwhile suggestions on here!), to provide a decent fast service for Lincoln (and one that goes beyond Nottingham) thus allowing the current service to serve the local demand without having to pretend to be reasonably fast at the same time.

 

[Martin_1981]

Good idea, though sending it via Yeovil, Weymouth, Bournemouth, Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton, Hastings, Ashford and then Dover would be less of a logistical and pathing nightmare. 159s would be best IMHO.

Didn't there used to be a Plymouth/Paignton to Brighton service back in the 1980's and early 90's operated by Network South East? I vaguely remember a service of that ilk which went via Exeter, Honiton, Yeovil, Salisbury, Southampton and Eastleigh. Maybe consideration should be given into reintroducing such a service even if only a couple of trains per day to provide a direct link between Devon and Sussex.

 

[FQ]

Didn't there used to be a Plymouth/Paignton to Brighton service back in the 1980's and early 90's operated by Network South East? I vaguely remember a service of that ilk which went via Exeter, Honiton, Yeovil, Salisbury, Southampton and Eastleigh. Maybe consideration should be given into reintroducing such a service even if only a couple of trains per day to provide a direct link between Devon and Sussex.

There was and maybe re-instating something like it again would be good. Maybe 4 a day in each direction all going from different places like 1 from Penzance, 1 from Paignton, 1 from Barnstaple and 1 from Newquay. The one from Penzance could go to Portsmouth Harbour, the one from Newquay could go to Brighton, the one from Paignton could go to Ashford International reversing at Brighton and Eastbourne and the one from Barnstaple could go to Gatwick airport. The calling points for the one from Penzance could be Penzance, Truro, Par, Liskeard, Plymouth, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids (reverse), Axminster, Yeovil Junction, Salisbury, Southampton Central, Fareham and Portsmouth Harbour.
The one from Newquay could call at Newquay, Par, Liskeard, Plymouth, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids (reverse), Axminster, Yeovil Junction, Salisbury, Southampton Central, Fareham, Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Worthing, Hove and Brighton.
The one from Paignton could call at Paignton, Torquay, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Exeter St Davids (reverse), Pinhoe, Axminster, Yeovil Junction, Sherborne, Gillingham, Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Fareham, Cosham, Bedhampton, Havant, Chichester, Worthing, Shoreham-By-Sea, Hove, Brighton (reverse), Lewes, Eastbourne, Hastings, Ore and Ashford International.
The one from Barnstaple could call at Barnstaple, Crediton, Exeter St Davids, Pinhoe, Axminster, Yeovil Junction, Sherborne, Gillingham, Sailsbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Fareham, Cosham, Bedhampton, Havant, Chichester, Horsham, and Gatwick Airport.
This could be the same on the services the other way.

 

[anthony263]

Great idea as it would give XC direct services to the heart of wales. It could call at Lincoln, Collingham, Newark Castle, Fiskerton, Bleasby, Lowdham, Nottingham then all the normal stations until Cardiff Central before caring on calling at Cardiff Central, Llanharan, Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea. Also maybe extend a few from Swansea onto Carmarthen calling at Swansea, Llanelli, Pembrey and Burry Port, Kidwelly, Ferryside and Carmarthen.

This has long been proposed by Railfuture. If the line between Southampton and Bath is ever fully electrified then a direct hourly Portsmouth Hbr - Swansea service would be very popular especially as there used to be such a link back in the regional railways/Wales and West days

 

[43074]

There was and maybe re-instating something like it again would be good. Maybe 4 a day in each direction all going from different places like 1 from Penzance, 1 from Paignton, 1 from Barnstaple and 1 from Newquay. The one from Penzance could go to Portsmouth Harbour, the one from Newquay could go to Brighton, the one from Paignton could go to Ashford International reversing at Brighton and Eastbourne and the one from Barnstaple could go to Gatwick airport.

Why Barnstaple exactly? Last I checked most people from North Devon requiring services to other parts of the country drive to Tiverton Parkway because the service from Barnstaple is so slow. And there are no avaliable train paths via Axminster since the hourly Exeter - Waterloo service was introduced a few years ago, so any trains from the South West to the South Coast would have to go via Westbury, as the Penzance to Portsmouth service used to, unless they detached from the Waterloo services at Salisbury.

 

[Martin_1981]

Why Barnstaple exactly? Last I checked most people from North Devon requiring services to other parts of the country drive to Tiverton Parkway because the service from Barnstaple is so slow. And there are no avaliable train paths via Axminster since the hourly Exeter - Waterloo service was introduced a few years ago, so any trains from the South West to the South Coast would have to go via Westbury, as the Penzance to Portsmouth service used to, unless they detached from the Waterloo services at Salisbury.

Yes, one way would be to combine say an Exeter-Brighton service with a Waterloo service, running as a 6 car train (2 x 159s) from Exeter to Salisbury, with the front set going onto Waterloo and the rear set onto Brighton via Southampton and vice versa in the reverse direction.

 

[Muzer]

So is there demand for Devon to Sussex through services?

 

[Rapidash]

There certainly used to be. My dad was talking about it only the other day, alleging it could be pretty busy. Admittedly that was the 80's, and people do different things these days.

 

[samogers]

So is there demand for Devon to Sussex through services?

There was when SWT operated the services between Brighton and Paington/Plymouth

 

[Muzer]

Interesting. It sounds more like it should be FGW turf nowadays, depending on exactly where the trains are routed. Certainly no spare capacity on the WoEML unless there's some dividing at Salisbury. Certainly Exeter to Portsmouth is one change away nowadays (change at Salisbury from a WoEML service or Westbury from a Hants/Berks service onto a Wessex Main Line service). Exeter to Brighton is a little harder, I can't think of anything with less than two changes, so maybe something is called for - but unless we get more 158s, I don't really see how.

 

[FQ]

Yes, one way would be to combine say an Exeter-Brighton service with a Waterloo service, running as a 6 car train (2 x 159s) from Exeter to Salisbury, with the front set going onto Waterloo and the rear set onto Brighton via Southampton and vice versa in the reverse direction.

I like that idea as it would make pathing would be much easier and if so maybe run it every hour from different places each time the first from Penzance, the 2nd from Paignton, the 3rd from Newquay, the 4th from Barnstaple (non stop all the way to Exeter), the 5th from Gunnislake (maybe held at Bere Alston for a Plymouth-Gunnislake train), the 6th from Falmouth Docks, the 7th from Penzance, the 8th from Paignton, the 9th from Newquay, the 10th from Barnstaple (non stop all the way to Exeter), the 11th from Gunnislake and the 12th from Falmouth Docks. The destinations of them could be 1st. Portsmouth Harbour, the 2nd to Brighton, the 3rd to Eastbourne, the 4th to Ashford International, the 5th to Gatwick Airport, the 6th to Littlehampton, the 7th to Portsmouth Harbour, the 8th to Brighton, the 9th to Eastbourne, the 10th to Ashford International, the 11th to Gatwick Airport and the 12th to Littlehampton. All of them could run so they can 'highjack' a ride on the Exeter-London Waterloo and the London Waterloo-Exeter trains.

 

[samogers]

I like that idea as it would make pathing would be much easier and if so maybe run it every hour from different places each time the first from Penzance, the 2nd from Paignton, the 3rd from Newquay, the 4th from Barnstaple (non stop all the way to Exeter), the 5th from Gunnislake (maybe held at Bere Alston for a Plymouth-Gunnislake train), the 6th from Falmouth Docks, the 7th from Penzance, the 8th from Paignton, the 9th from Newquay, the 10th from Barnstaple (non stop all the way to Exeter), the 11th from Gunnislake and the 12th from Falmouth Docks. The destinations of them could be 1st. Portsmouth Harbour, the 2nd to Brighton, the 3rd to Eastbourne, the 4th to Ashford International, the 5th to Gatwick Airport, the 6th to Littlehampton, the 7th to Portsmouth Harbour, the 8th to Brighton, the 9th to Eastbourne, the 10th to Ashford International, the 11th to Gatwick Airport and the 12th to Littlehampton. All of them could run so they can 'highjack' a ride on the Exeter-London Waterloo and the London Waterloo-Exeter trains.

Good idea. Won't the journey times to places such as Ashford be a little long though as the the trains would reverse a few times?

 

[FQ]

Good idea. Won't the journey times to places such as Ashford be a little long though as the the trains would reverse a few times?

it would have to reverse at Exeter (before joining onto a London Train to Salisbury), Brighton and Eastbourne. Thanks for the like.

 

[Muzer]

I'm not sure capacity is available on the West Coastway Line between Southampton and Portsmouth either. There are the hourly Wessex Main Line services, South Hants locals (hourly Soton to Portsmouth and hourly London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh - obviously only on the line from Fareham), and hourly Southern services, plus the odd Great Western Brighton service (assuming these run in addition to the Portsmouth ones, I can't remember). That could be harder to overcome, unless they coupled onto the Wessex Main Line services (where? Salisbury again? Southampton? Neither of those seem appropriate - I don't even know if the timing works).

 

[alex17595]

Good idea. Won't the journey times to places such as Ashford be a little long though as the the trains would reverse a few times?

How about we have a Dogbox run from each of those locations and join at Exeter and split where the other lines branch off.

 

[FQ]

How about we have a Dogbox run from each of those locations and join at Exeter and split where the other lines branch off.

Help. It would need to be something much better than that!!!

 

[samogers]

I'm not sure capacity is available on the West Coastway Line between Southampton and Portsmouth either. There are the hourly Wessex Main Line services, South Hants locals (hourly Soton to Portsmouth and hourly London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh - obviously only on the line from Fareham), and hourly Southern services, plus the odd Great Western Brighton service (assuming these run in addition to the Portsmouth ones, I can't remember). That could be harder to overcome, unless they coupled onto the Wessex Main Line services (where? Salisbury again? Southampton? Neither of those seem appropriate - I don't even know if the timing works).

You could always run to the same times as the FGW Brighton services but at different hours e.g. the FGW service leaves Southampton at 1434, the services from Devon to Sussex could leave Southampton at 1234 but run to the same minutes past the hour as the 1434

 

[FQ]

How about a york-Leeds circular throughout the day calling at York, Poppleton, Hammerton, Cattal, Knaresborough, Starbeck, Harrogate, Hornbeam Park, Pannal, Weeton, Horsforth, Headingley, Burley Park, Leeds, Cross Gates, Garforth, East Garforth, Micklefield, Church Fenton, Ulleskelf and York. Also there could be a service like that going the other way and they could circulate like that for the day.

 

[adrock1976]

A possible new (or reinstated) service according to Centro (West Midlands PTE) could be Birmingham New Street to Walsall every 10 minutes (increased from the present 4 trains per hour), then:

2 trains extend to Rugeley Trent Valley (or Stafford)
2 trains extend to Aldridge (Midland Railway Sutton Park line)
2 trains reverse and continue to Wolverhampton via Willenhall (Grand Junction Railway), and be combined with the present all stations Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street (London & North Western Railway line) service.

Obviously for the first 2 options above, this would require electrification of the routes beyond Walsall to Rugeley TV, and also the Sutton Park line too.

Furthermore, Willenhall (Staffordshire) station could be reopened.

In peace

Adam

 

[swt_passenger]

You could always run to the same times as the FGW Brighton services but at different hours e.g. the FGW service leaves Southampton at 1434, the services from Devon to Sussex could leave Southampton at 1234 but run to the same minutes past the hour as the 1434

But every time you send a service east of Southampton at xx34 you'd have to retime the corresponding xx33 Southern Brighton service. So basically you are providing yet another unnecessary duplicate with a similar calling pattern to a Brighton service that already runs using a 4 car EMU.

Why not just change at Southampton? There are far more useful places to run that DMU than Brighton.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not sure capacity is available on the West Coastway Line between Southampton and Portsmouth either.
...and hourly Southern services, plus the odd Great Western Brighton service (assuming these run in addition to the Portsmouth ones, I can't remember).

The Southern service east of Southampton is 2 tph, but not evenly balanced, with the one to Victoria normally at xx13, and the other to Brighton 20 mins later at xx33. (The pattern gives a reasonably spread 5 tph through Havant - with the 2 Victorias and 2 Brightons half an hour apart from the corresponding Portsmouth trains. The 5th path being the Portsmouth - Littlehampton stopper.)

You are also correct that the FGW Brighton extensions are in addition to the normal hourly Cardiff - Portsmouth trains. They are basically variations/extensions of the secondary FGW service through Westbury, the one that provides the Weymouths and the few Southampton terminators.

 

[43074]

I like that idea as it would make pathing would be much easier and if so maybe run it every hour from different places each time the first from Penzance, the 2nd from Paignton, the 3rd from Newquay, the 4th from Barnstaple (non stop all the way to Exeter), the 5th from Gunnislake (maybe held at Bere Alston for a Plymouth-Gunnislake train), the 6th from Falmouth Docks, the 7th from Penzance, the 8th from Paignton, the 9th from Newquay, the 10th from Barnstaple (non stop all the way to Exeter), the 11th from Gunnislake and the 12th from Falmouth Docks. The destinations of them could be 1st. Portsmouth Harbour, the 2nd to Brighton, the 3rd to Eastbourne, the 4th to Ashford International, the 5th to Gatwick Airport, the 6th to Littlehampton, the 7th to Portsmouth Harbour, the 8th to Brighton, the 9th to Eastbourne, the 10th to Ashford International, the 11th to Gatwick Airport and the 12th to Littlehampton. All of them could run so they can 'highjack' a ride on the Exeter-London Waterloo and the London Waterloo-Exeter trains.

That would make a very complicated timetable! Why not just Plymouth or Paignton to Portsmouth or Brighton, with 2 per day in each direction and (good) connections to or from the branches at either end? And that's if we insist on a Devon to Sussex service in the first place, I'm not convinced there's demand for it personally. Plus there are a few SWT services which attach or detach coaches at Salisbury from Waterloo to Bristol and also to/from the Depot, so platform working at Salisbury would be very complicated if we have all that splitting and joining. That's without considering the impact on punctuality that such a wide range of destinations so far afield could have when it comes to splitting/joining at Salisbury and again at the Exeter end. Also SWT only have 41 units, most of which are in use daily anyway, so where does the stock come from?

 

[Muzer]

But every time you send a service east of Southampton at xx34 you'd have to retime the corresponding xx33 Southern Brighton service. So basically you are providing yet another unnecessary duplicate with a similar calling pattern to a Brighton service that already runs using a 4 car EMU.

Why not just change at Southampton? There are far more useful places to run that DMU than Brighton.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



The Southern service east of Southampton is 2 tph, but not evenly balanced, with the one to Victoria normally at xx13, and the other to Brighton 20 mins later at xx33. (The pattern gives a reasonably spread 5 tph through Havant - with the 2 Victorias and 2 Brightons half an hour apart from the corresponding Portsmouth trains. The 5th path being the Portsmouth - Littlehampton stopper.)

You are also correct that the FGW Brighton extensions are in addition to the normal hourly Cardiff - Portsmouth trains. They are basically variations/extensions of the secondary FGW service through Westbury, the one that provides the Weymouths and the few Southampton terminators.

Oh, I'd forgotten that there are 2TPH Southern.

 

[Deerfold]

How about a york-Leeds circular throughout the day calling at York, Poppleton, Hammerton, Cattal, Knaresborough, Starbeck, Harrogate, Hornbeam Park, Pannal, Weeton, Horsforth, Headingley, Burley Park, Leeds, Cross Gates, Garforth, East Garforth, Micklefield, Church Fenton, Ulleskelf and York. Also there could be a service like that going the other way and they could circulate like that for the day.

I doubt we'll see any true circulars (that continue on without an end point) in the foreseeable future as it is very hard to recover if any time is lost unless there's lots of padding in the timetable which makes the service less attractive..

Would also possibly open up all sorts of ticketing loopholes.

Are you going to give any reasons for any of the services you're suggesting? We might be able to see some use in some of them if you do.