More Delay for HS2, and how should we proceed?

[snowball]

It also confirms the more recent prediction of @Xavi in #1044.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It also confirms the more recent prediction of @Xavi in #1044.

Indeed.
Though it's confusing when some work is clearly continuing for the moment (eg the WCML underpass south of Lichfield TV) .

 

[snowball]

Though it's confusing when some work is clearly continuing for the moment (eg the WCML underpass south of Lichfield TV) .

That may need to meet possession dates already booked.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Next phase of major HS2 contracts set to be released this summer | New Civil Engineer

As work for the construction of viaducts, tunnels and bridges between linking Birmingham Curzon Street and Old Oak Common Station is progressing, HS2 and

www.newcivilengineer.com

Next phase of major HS2 contracts set to be released this summer​

As work for the construction of viaducts, tunnels and bridges between linking Birmingham Curzon Street and Old Oak Common Station is progressing, HS2 and its construction partners are looking for subcontractors for the delivery of other parts of the project.

Among the contracts set to start being released this summer are some related to highway works and associated ancillary packages, such as surfacing, kerbing and paving.

There will also be new contract opportunities for earthworks, minor civils and road works within the urban realm. Contractors to carry out drainage, formwork and concrete works will also be sought.

Apart from subcontractors for these tasks, companies will be sought to support the manufacture of its fleet of high speed trains and for the fit out its first new station – the Old Oak Common station. Earlier this week, Balfour Beatty Vinci Systra joint venture completed the completed the first concrete pour for the base slab of the new station.

Despite the contracts being related to the rail link between London and Birmingham, the "meet the contractor" events organised by HS2 Ltd and its construction partners will take place in Manchester on the 10 and 11 July. The event on 10 July will be the one focused on the upcoming contract opportunities around station fit out and civil works.


“Meet the contractor is designed to help businesses understand how to get ‘HS2-ready’ so they are in the best possible position to bid for upcoming work,” said an HS2 Ltd spokesperson.

Advance registration is required for the events, with interested parties having until 5pm on 23 June to register. A series of online events will also be held for those unable to attend in-person.

HS2 Ltd chief commercial officer Ruth Todd, said: “Thousands of UK businesses are already helping to bring the HS2 network to life, and this latest round of contract opportunities opens the door for hundreds more to join them.

“It’s an exciting time, as attention now turns towards raising our stations from the ground and building a fleet of rolling stock that will transform the way we travel between Britain’s major towns and cities. This is a standout opportunity for UK businesses looking to expand their order books and I’d encourage them to register quickly for the chance to discuss what’s on offer.”

Over 3,000 UK-based businesses are already engaged in HS2’s supply chain and 61% of contracts have been awarded to small and medium sized businesses (SMEs) in every region of the UK.

Despite delays, they're still chugging along with the work and contracts

 

[D365]

Despite delays, they're still chugging along with the work and contracts

Not sure what your comment means. The work is still being done.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Not sure what your comment means. The work is still being done.

I just wanted to bring some positivity in... It's been all gloom and doom lately...

 

[crablab]

Keir Starmer has said on PM today (I paraphrase), that a Labour government would look to build in full:
- HS2 to Leeds
- Euston
- NPR

The Y shape was mentioned, so presumably there is aspiration to go to Manchester as well.

PM - 17/05/2023 - BBC Sounds

Afternoon news and current affairs programme

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[zwk500]

The Y shape was mentioned, so presumably there is aspiration to go to Manchester as well.

I always thought when they were talking about the Y shape, it means building to Leeds?

 

[crablab]

I always thought when they were talking about the Y shape, it means building to Leeds?

That was covered explicitly, the discussion of the Y shape was in the context of the folly of having only sections of the line being completed. It wasn't stated explicitly, but my inference was he was meaning support for broadly the original Y design, in full.

 

[snowball]

Keir Starmer has said on PM today (I paraphrase), that a Labour government would look to build in full:
- HS2 to Leeds
- Euston
- NPR

which of course raises the question which version of NPR.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

which of course raises the question which version of NPR.

He particularly mentioned Bradford, previously promised by Boris.
I'm not sure if he actually said Labour would deliver that, but the implication was there.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Reporting In MyLondon today regarding Huw Merriman's appearance yesterday in front of the transport committee, says "he 'sees no reason' people will pick Euston over Old Oak Common"

'No reason' passengers will pick Euston over Old Oak Common rail minister says

HS2 passengers will have to take the Elizabeth line from West to Central London initially, even though direct classic trains will continue at the same time

www.mylondon.news

Rail minister says he 'sees no reason' people will pick Euston over Old Oak Common during HS2 delay due to Elizabeth line link​

HS2 passengers will have to take the Elizabeth line from West to Central London initially, even though direct classic trains will continue at the same time
The top politician leading the government's role in the under construction 225mph High Speed Two (HS2) railway line through West London says he sees 'no reason' people will continue to take existing direct trains to and from Central London, instead of opting for the initial HS2 service as far as West London and then changing onto the Elizabeth line for an eight year period once the line initially opens.

Under government plans announced in March, Old Oak Common in West London (a new station between Acton Main Line and Paddington on the Elizabeth line) will be the terminus of the high-speed line to Birmingham and the North once it opens between 2029 and 2033. Due to an indefinite pause on construction of its ultimate terminus in Euston to curb inflation, according to the government, passengers won't be able to travel direct to Zone 1 on the new line until the late 2030s/2040s, even though existing direct trains currently operated by Avanti West Coast will continue over the approximately eight year gap.


Rail minister, with responsibility for HS2, Huw Merriman MP told the House of Commons' transport select committee at a meeting in Buckinghamshire on Thursday afternoon (May 18): "We're planning on three [initial HS2] trains per hour and Old Oak Common will be able to deliver to that. It's also got the interchange there to take those passengers off to the West country and to Heathrow via the Elizabeth line so initially that part will work."

 

[LOL The Irony]

Reporting In MyLondon today regarding Huw Merriman's appearance yesterday in front of the transport committee, says "he 'sees no reason' people will pick Euston over Old Oak Common"

Wow, these people are really that removed from reality.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Wow, these people are really that removed from reality.

And that comes as a surprise to you! I thought this was government standard operating procedure at this point!

 

[LOL The Irony]

And that comes as a surprise to you! I thought this was government standard operating procedure!

Not to that extent. In the words of Emperor Yoshiro from C&C Red Alert 3, you are made of stupid.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If he had said anything else, it would have fuelled the "cancel HS2" brigade.
I doubt he has any other option given the funding straightjacket.

 

[Jonny]

Reporting In MyLondon today regarding Huw Merriman's appearance yesterday in front of the transport committee, says "he 'sees no reason' people will pick Euston over Old Oak Common"

'No reason' passengers will pick Euston over Old Oak Common rail minister says

HS2 passengers will have to take the Elizabeth line from West to Central London initially, even though direct classic trains will continue at the same time

www.mylondon.news

Except that anyone heading to the West Country from Birmingham would likely have gone to New Street and gone straight south-west.

Also, has he factored in the likelihood of people who want a Central Line destination noticing that North Acton (Central Line) is really near Old Oak Common and acting accordingly?

 

[zwk500]

Except that anyone heading to the West Country from Birmingham would likely have gone to New Street and gone straight south-west.

Also, has he factored in the likelihood of people who want a Central Line destination noticing that North Acton (Central Line) is really near Old Oak Common and acting accordingly?

His objective isn't to be accurate, he's a politician. His objective is to try and justify the decision he has made. It matters not how flimsy the evidence he presents, as long as it gets into the papers.

Separately, MyLondon is atrocious and shouldn't really count as a newspaper given how little of it's own journalism it bothers to do.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Well no doubt they will want to spen a year or two examining options and more delay will follow in ever realising any tangible benefits from all the money being expended.

 

[CdBrux]

Keir Starmer has said on PM today (I paraphrase), that a Labour government would look to build in full:
- HS2 to Leeds
- Euston
- NPR

The Y shape was mentioned, so presumably there is aspiration to go to Manchester as well.

PM - 17/05/2023 - BBC Sounds

Afternoon news and current affairs programme

www.bbc.co.uk

'Look to' = yet another study / review
Euston - being done
NPR - what is the definition of 'in full'?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

'Look to' = yet another study / review
Euston - being done
NPR - what is the definition of 'in full'?

At the Transport Select Committee last Thursday

Thurston said that current Euston overspend was down to a 1.2B bill for creating access to LUL station without a justification that its taken them this long to work out what was actually needed which is pretty dreadful sate of affairs. Based on current govt plans he then suggested it should open c8yrs after Old Oak Common but Merriman says everybody needs to come together to develop a viable scheme. In between time the site is being demobilised and they will hand back as much of the temporary site to Camden Council.

So Labour can say they will progress the full Y but just delay its completion so far into this century its all becoming meaningless and just politician speak.

 

[Geogregor]

At the Transport Select Committee last Thursday

Thurston said that current Euston overspend was down to a 1.2B bill for creating access to LUL station without a justification that its taken them this long to work out what was actually needed which is pretty dreadful sate of affairs. Based on current govt plans he then suggested it should open c8yrs after Old Oak Common but Merriman says everybody needs to come together to develop a viable scheme. In between time the site is being demobilised and they will hand back as much of the temporary site to Camden Council.

So Labour can say they will progress the full Y but just delay its completion so far into this century its all becoming meaningless and just politician speak.

Come on, they can't be serious. 1.2B just for access to LUL station? What are they building? Gold plated anti-gravity travelators?

It sounds to me like preparing ground for future blaming of the TfL for the HS2 overspend. It would be politically very convenient for the DfT.

 

[zwk500]

Come on, they can't be serious. 1.2B just for access to LUL station? What are they building? Gold plated anti-gravity travelators?

It sounds to me like preparing ground for future blaming of the TfL for the HS2 overspend. It would be politically very convenient for the DfT.

Have you tried digging a hole in that part of London? It's not empty ground and there's plenty of very expensive buildings on top that would cause rather a headache if they fell into the tunnel.

 

[jfowkes]

Have you tried digging a hole in that part of London? It's not empty ground and there's plenty of very expensive buildings on top that would cause rather a headache if they fell into the tunnel.

Not to mention getting plant and materials to and from the site. Look at all the logistical infrastructure for OOC, and that's nowhere near as complex a site as Euston.

 

[stuu]

Have you tried digging a hole in that part of London? It's not empty ground and there's plenty of very expensive buildings on top that would cause rather a headache if they fell into the tunnel.

Such as?

Anyway, it's getting an extension of the tube ticket hall, not particularly deep and not having anything to do with new platforms. I'm with Geogregor, it's nonsense

 

[zwk500]

Such as?

The Wellcome Institute and the Friends Meeting House on the south side of Euston Road, and 30 Euston Square, the home of the Royal College of GPs on the corner by the station.

Anyway, it's getting an extension of the tube ticket hall, not particularly deep and not having anything to do with new platforms. I'm with Geogregor, it's nonsense

It's lack of depth is presumably one of the problems - potential to hit all sorts of drains, wires, cables, sewers and whatnot with little room above for margin.

 

[Trainbike46]

I'm with the people here who say it doesn't make sense, but not because of the cost of the tube connection.

At the Transport Select Committee last Thursday

Thurston said that current Euston overspend was down to a 1.2B bill for creating access to LUL station without a justification that its taken them this long to work out what was actually needed which is pretty dreadful sate of affairs. Based on current govt plans he then suggested it should open c8yrs after Old Oak Common but Merriman says everybody needs to come together to develop a viable scheme. In between time the site is being demobilised and they will hand back as much of the temporary site to Camden Council.

So Labour can say they will progress the full Y but just delay its completion so far into this century its all becoming meaningless and just politician speak.

If the cause of the overspend was the tube connection, then why did the government order a redesign of the HS2 station, both reducing utility and increasing the costs for design work?
If it really was just due to the tube connection, then redesigning the HS2 station from 11 to 10 platforms is an unhinged repsonse. Not that I'm ruling out that the government behaved in an unhinged way, but I also wouldn't rule out that the government is looking to blame TfL, or that this isn't the whole story.

 

[stuu]

The Wellcome Institute and the Friends Meeting House on the south side of Euston Road, and 30 Euston Square, the home of the Royal College of GPs on the corner by the station.

It's lack of depth is presumably one of the problems - potential to hit all sorts of drains, wires, cables, sewers and whatnot with little room above for margin.

It's a ~150m long cut and cover box along Melton Street. If that costs the same as the entire station at OOC we may as well not bother ever building anything again

 

[jfowkes]

If the cause of the overspend was the tube connection, then why did the government order a redesign of the HS2 station, both reducing utility and increasing the costs for design work?

Because the government are so desperate to reduce near-term costs they'll do it even if it reduces value and increases cost in the future. Better to say "we've saved billions now" even if a future government has to spend even more billions later.

 

[Purple Train]

Reporting In MyLondon today regarding Huw Merriman's appearance yesterday in front of the transport committee, says "he 'sees no reason' people will pick Euston over Old Oak Common"

'No reason' passengers will pick Euston over Old Oak Common rail minister says

HS2 passengers will have to take the Elizabeth line from West to Central London initially, even though direct classic trains will continue at the same time

www.mylondon.news

If you can't even trust the Tories to give factual information about places south-east of the Watford Gap, you know you have a problem.