May 2023 changes

[30907]

Whitby seems to be losing its early morning commuter service 06.30 to Middlesborough, which now starts from Nunthorpe, pity the Esk Valley CRP, they have fought so hard...

Hardly surprising (Sorry, Alan Williams) as the only possible time (0800 into Middlesbrough) was too early to be really useful and the prospects of commuting from Whitby must be limited anyway.

 

[DDB]

What is an SCU Allowance?

 

[InkyScrolls]

"Safety check unit" - the time required for a driver to prep a unit and carry out a static brake test.

 

[Bikeman78]

Like the pre COVID 17:18 that used to get to Colchester in 54mins.

Back in the day, some of the peak class 312 trains ran non-stop as far as Kelvedon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2023 ==

I did notice that the timetable last year that had several services removed on the Lancaster to Carlisle line weekdays resulted in double units on some services. So not really saving much on fuel.

Worth pointing out that Seascale & Silecroft are in the constituency of Trudi Harrison and she was in the Department of Transport Not sure what she is involved in now.

Perhaps the people I overheard talking about the services being reduced in the west were referring to what happened last years timetable. My bad for repeating it on here!

Not to mention train crew travelling or even being moved around by taxi. The line is popular in the summer.

 

[lammergeier]

"Safety check unit" - the time required for a driver to prep a unit and carry out a static brake test.

Not on XC (which was the company it was brought up in relation to) - here it means "secure unit" ie check train is empty, lock passenger doors etc.

On Voyagers the drivers do it, on HST's/170's the TM's/Senior Conductors are diagrammed to do it.

Not really sure why there is a bit of a moan about the SCU allowance further upthread - if we have a 9 car voyager, how long do you expect it to take us to walk through and make sure everyone is off the train? Especially on a Friday or Saturday evening. Maybe on a quiet 4 car it would only take a couple of minutes, but on a 9 car it takes far longer.

 

[The Planner]

Not on XC (which was the company it was brought up in relation to) - here it means "secure unit" ie check train is empty, lock passenger doors etc.

On Voyagers the drivers do it, on HST's/170's the TM's/Senior Conductors are diagrammed to do it.

Not really sure why there is a bit of a moan about the SCU allowance further upthread - if we have a 9 car voyager, how long do you expect it to take us to walk through and make sure everyone is off the train? Especially on a Friday or Saturday evening. Maybe on a quiet 4 car it would only take a couple of minutes, but on a 9 car it takes far longer.

15 minutes for a double 22x set, 20 if the ECS is in reverse direction.

 

[Watershed]

What is an SCU Allowance?

Safety Check Unit allowance; the TPRs (Timetable Planning Rules) document it as follows:



It's essentially designed to allow the guard and/or platform staff to check that nobody is left onboard when they lock the doors and take the unit out of passenger service. But plenty of other TOCs don't have such an allowance, or if they do, it's just 1 or 2 minutes - even for trains that are up to 12 coaches long. It's utterly unconsistent and frankly there's no real justification for having such long allowances.

 

[hello]

Safety Check Unit allowance; the TPRs (Timetable Planning Rules) document it as follows:

View attachment 128761

It's essentially designed to allow the guard and/or platform staff to check that nobody is left onboard when they lock the doors and take the unit out of passenger service. But plenty of other TOCs don't have such an allowance, or if they do, it's just 1 or 2 minutes - even for trains that are up to 12 coaches long. It's utterly unconsistent and frankly there's no real justification for having such long allowances.

justification is, it gets done properly

 

[lammergeier]

justification is, it gets done properly

And also it's useful in case there's some drunken idiot, which there often is, who won't wake up/get off as it means it won't delay other trains arriving onto that platform.

 

[Watershed]

justification is, it gets done properly

That doesn't seem to stop 90% of TOCs from doing it in 1 or 2 mins, and accepting that the consequences are not that serious (in the grand scheme of things) if someone does get missed.

I think it's clear who the outlier is here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2023 ==

Not really sure why there is a bit of a moan about the SCU allowance further upthread - if we have a 9 car voyager, how long do you expect it to take us to walk through and make sure everyone is off the train? Especially on a Friday or Saturday evening. Maybe on a quiet 4 car it would only take a couple of minutes, but on a 9 car it takes far longer.

I wouldn't expect it to take 20 minutes, that's for sure!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not exactly. On Sundays, it is 1 Reigate and 1 Bognor Regis/Portsmouth.

Yoiks mis read RTT thanks for correcting me. A four car reigate isn't ideal as loadings for CLJ/VIC are reasonable at weekends but at least a Bedford is 4mins behind. Actually in some respects they would probably have been better running a Tonbridge-Reigate shuttle then commit run a 4car into London on days with big sporting events.

 

[JonathanH]

Actually in some respects they would probably have been better running a Tonbridge-Reigate shuttle then commit run a 4car into London on days with big sporting events.

Plenty of weeks when it is Reigate to Tonbridge - eg this weekend, due to a fast line block between East Croydon and Balham.

Weekend services through Redhill are effectively a base timetable from which the operator then selects which services can run within the constraints / engineering work on the route.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Plenty of weeks when it is Reigate to Tonbridge - eg this weekend, due to a fast line block between East Croydon and Balham.

Weekend services through Redhill are effectively a base timetable from which the operator then selects which services can run within the constraints / engineering work on the route.

Yeah i get that but despite too much engineering work but wont whinge about that again there are more weeks when it will be running so was suggesting that the Reigate to Tonbridge would be better base service anyhow at least its only 4mins behind an inbound coast service at E.Croydon so wont ordinarily have too many passengers to board.

 

[WizCastro197]

Yeah i get that but despite too much engineering work but wont whinge about that again there are more weeks when it will be running so was suggesting that the Reigate to Tonbridge would be better base service anyhow at least its only 4mins behind an inbound coast service at E.Croydon so wont ordinarily have too many passengers to board.

Both the Victoria service and the one that leaves after it, are both popular. For those going to Merstham/Coulsdon/Croydon, the Victoria service is the most attractive, as it leaves before and won't be overtaken. If you want Thameslink core, the answer is obvious.

Most Reigate originating services become full at Redhill with some seats left, and standing room normally around Purley/East Croydon. It is a popular service and the Thameslink trains do have no seats by East Croydon on Redhill Line services.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Safety Check Unit allowance; the TPRs (Timetable Planning Rules) document it as follows:

View attachment 128761

It's essentially designed to allow the guard and/or platform staff to check that nobody is left onboard when they lock the doors and take the unit out of passenger service. But plenty of other TOCs don't have such an allowance, or if they do, it's just 1 or 2 minutes - even for trains that are up to 12 coaches long. It's utterly unconsistent and frankly there's no real justification for having such long allowances.

Depends how thoroughly you want the units checked. With no toilets and half a dozen platform staff, you could probably check it in one minute

 

[Watershed]

Depends how thoroughly you want the units checked. With no toilets and half a dozen platform staff, you could probably check it in one minute

If it takes half a dozen platform staff one minute to do a dozen coaches (there are locations where the ratio of staff to coaches is far less), that suggests a guard should be able to do 3 coaches in 1.5 minutes. Which, even if we round it up to 2 minutes to allow for checking the toilets, is much less than the 5 minutes currently required.

 

[Minstral25]

Both the Victoria service and the one that leaves after it, are both popular. For those going to Merstham/Coulsdon/Croydon, the Victoria service is the most attractive, as it leaves before and won't be overtaken. If you want Thameslink core, the answer is obvious.

Most Reigate originating services become full at Redhill with some seats left, and standing room normally around Purley/East Croydon. It is a popular service and the Thameslink trains do have no seats by East Croydon on Redhill Line services.

I wouldn't say most but there is a marked difference through the day on Reigate to Victoria at weekends. Normally leaving Reigate up to 20% full and up to 70% full by Purley. Point is there are a lot of passengers at Reigate who the diversion to Tonbridge (along with 50% reduction in services on a Saturday) creates inconvenience.

In last 6 months, Saturday services Reigate to Victoria have run 11 out of 26 days (47%) and Sunday 8 days (30%), so not running much anyway which is driving passengers away

 

[NewClee153]

I sincerely hope WMT haven’t fully released their timetables. The Snow Hill line timetable for Sunday hasn’t changed at all

Which would be absolutely appalling considering 6tph were touted for Birmingham - Stourbridge on Sundays for 2022 - albeit this was stated before covid

 

[Pumbaa]

I sincerely hope WMT haven’t fully released their timetables. The Snow Hill line timetable for Sunday hasn’t changed at all

Which would be absolutely appalling considering 6tph were touted for Birmingham - Stourbridge on Sundays for 2022 - albeit this was stated before covid

How are you expecting that to be funded, exactly? May have been touted, but the original franchise and commitments are dead, and HM Treasury aren’t sticking their hand in their pocket.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I sincerely hope WMT haven’t fully released their timetables. The Snow Hill line timetable for Sunday hasn’t changed at all

Which would be absolutely appalling considering 6tph were touted for Birmingham - Stourbridge on Sundays for 2022 - albeit this was stated before covid

Whatever was touted before covid has died with covid and all the franchises being terminated. This applies nationally.

 

[dk1]

Whatever was touted before covid has died with covid and all the franchises being terminated. This applies nationally.

Yes exactly that. All concessions now so anything promised with the original franchise now means nothing.

 

[NewClee153]

Whatever was touted before covid has died with covid and all the franchises being terminated. This applies nationally.

Yes exactly that. All concessions now so anything promised with the original franchise now means nothing.

I’m fully aware of that. I even stated it in my post

My point was that the Sunday service is still extremely poor despite the service every other day being improved/tweaked

 

[dk1]

I’m fully aware of that. I even stated it in my post

My point was that the Sunday service is still extremely poor despite the service every other day being improved/tweaked

Does your TOC have committed Sundays for traincrew?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2023 ==

Oh I’ve just seen WMR drivers do not. Maybe a reason why there is concern in any Sunday service enhancement.

 

[craigybagel]

I sincerely hope WMT haven’t fully released their timetables. The Snow Hill line timetable for Sunday hasn’t changed at all

Which would be absolutely appalling considering 6tph were touted for Birmingham - Stourbridge on Sundays for 2022 - albeit this was stated before covid

Bearing in mind the Snow Hill lines won't be seeing 6tph even on weekdays going forward, it's even less likely they'll ever see it on a Sunday.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I’m fully aware of that. I even stated it in my post

My point was that the Sunday service is still extremely poor despite the service every other day being improved/tweaked

Isn’t the plan to reduce the service on the Snow Hill lines on weekdays anyway?

 

[newtownmgr]

Isn’t the plan to reduce the service on the Snow Hill lines on weekdays anyway?

Service is staying at 4 an hour going forward over the core route. All services supposed to be 5 car.

 

[NewClee153]

Bearing in mind the Snow Hill lines won't be seeing 6tph even on weekdays going forward, it's even less likely they'll ever see it on a Sunday.

I’m aware of this, I literally stated in my post that I was aware things have changed since covid

My point was, 2tph on a Sunday in 2023 is completely unacceptable

 

[Scotrail314209]

Ayr services now run semi-fast, with the Largs/Ardrossan services running all stop. No increase in freq on Ayr route.

That’s basically pre-2014 levels… I don’t like it at all.

I don’t think 4tph will be sufficient enough long term, the Ayr services today are already pretty busy on a Saturday as are the Largs trains.

Slowing down the Largs trains won’t be popular in the slightest.

Surely by May, ScotRail will have enough resources to run the fast services from Ayr again? I don’t know why they have to alter it.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That’s basically pre-2014 levels… I don’t like it at all.

I don’t think 4tph will be sufficient enough long term, the Ayr services today are already pretty busy on a Saturday as are the Largs trains.

Slowing down the Largs trains won’t be popular in the slightest.

Surely by May, ScotRail will have enough resources to run the fast services from Ayr again? I don’t know why they have to alter it.

Matches where the railway is at about pre-2014 levels of revenue!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I have a question


During the summer months, does TfW increase the frequency of the Milford Haven trains to hourly? And are there any changes confirmed on that line?

Reason why I ask is because I'm thinking of doing some Pembrokeshire day trips (from Oxford) but the problem is that I won't really be able to visit some places as a result of the reduced frequency of some train lines there.