Marches blocked yet again by A Broken Down Freight.

[Llanigraham]

A freight service, carrying a lightweight load from Donnington RFT to Warrington is running 40 minutes early. It gets held at 'a certain box in Crewe' until right time. During the wait time, NOT ONE train passes the freight. It is a class 6 service timed to run at 60mph. By the time it leaves 'a certain box in Crewe', it is late and ends up at its destination late.

Now you tell me, what is the sense in holding that service to time? It didn't interfere with any other service as nothing passed it. Due to the regulation, it ended up late running. It might just be me, but I can't honestly see the sense in that.

1/ That isn't The Marches route!! Therefore not relevant.

2/ So you know that the early move at Crewe won't have a effect at say Shrewsbury, or Craven Arms, or Hereford? You have to look at the bigger picture, not just your little "bubble"!!

 

[Tomnick]

If there's nothing booked past it in the time that it's being 'regulated', then there shouldn't be a problem! If it can't be dealt with until its booked time at the next junction, it can simply be held there. Otherwise, if it would be running out of booked order, communication (with the next regulating point) and cooperation are critical!

 

[carriageline]

And yet we get it in the ear from all sides. Seriously stroppy drivers when you hold them to time, and seriously stroppy TRC when you run them early.

Personally I would rather the stroppy drivers, and have no O code attributed to me. At the same time, I have let a lot run early and only had one bite me in the ass (but that was rather poor regulation by another box but there we go!), and even then it was early hours on the weekend

 

[Jamesb1974]

1/ That isn't The Marches route!! Therefore not relevant.

2/ So you know that the early move at Crewe won't have a effect at say Shrewsbury, or Craven Arms, or Hereford? You have to look at the bigger picture, not just your little "bubble"!!

Tell me which box you work in. I wont be flicking the light on when I pass. :-x

1) Granted, but as I explained further back I was referring to regulation (or lack of) in general.
2) A move from Gresty to the independents and thence onto the WCML is unlikely to affect any of the above, especially when NOTHING PASSED.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And yet we get it in the ear from all sides. Seriously stroppy drivers when you hold them to time, and seriously stroppy TRC when you run them early.

Personally I would rather the stroppy drivers, and have no O code attributed to me. At the same time, I have let a lot run early and only had one bite me in the ass (but that was rather poor regulation by another box but there we go!), and even then it was early hours on the weekend

Some drivers do get stupidly stroppy. Personally, I like to seeth quietly and plot some devious fantasy revenge. That's a joke by the way..

But, on a serious note is this note a product of today's' fragmented railway? Having never worked under BR, I can't comment but did the system run better or worse when everyone worked for the same employer? Or is it better or worse now that you cheeky box fellows work for one outfit and us dapper drivers work for others?

 

[D1009]

2) A move from Gresty to the independents and thence onto the WCML is unlikely to affect any of the above, especially when NOTHING PASSED.

I fail to understand why you use an instance of a lightly loaded freight on the WCML being held for its booked path on the WCML to illustrate a point about poor regulation of heavy freight trains on the Marches route. Also if you are trying to say that nothing went past on the WCML at Crewe for 40 minutes while you were held waiting time at Gresty Lane, I simply don't believe you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But, on a serious note is this note a product of today's' fragmented railway? Having never worked under BR, I can't comment but did the system run better or worse when everyone worked for the same employer? Or is it better or worse now that you cheeky box fellows work for one outfit and us dapper drivers work for others?

In BR days passenger trains were prioritised over freight to a far greater extent than is the case today, so be careful what you wish for.

 

[Jamesb1974]

I fail to understand why you use an instance of a lightly loaded freight on the WCML being held for its booked path on the WCML to illustrate a point about poor regulation of heavy freight trains on the Marches route. Also if you are trying to say that nothing went past on the WCML at Crewe for 40 minutes while you were held waiting time at Gresty Lane, I simply don't believe you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In BR days passenger trains were prioritised over freight to a far greater extent than is the case today, so be careful what you wish for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Marches_Line

Does the Marches line begin at Crewe? Yes

Does the Marches line pass through Shrewsbury? Yes

Did the train I was referring to travel over the Marches line between Shrewsbury and Crewe? Yes

What is confusing about that?

And at no point did I say that nothing passed me on the WCML. Nothing passed me at GRESTY, which is where the train was held until booked time.

I don't believe you. I don't know what about yet, but I don't. :roll:

 

[D1009]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Marches_Line

Does the Marches line begin at Crewe? Yes

Does the Marches line pass through Shrewsbury? Yes

Did the train I was referring to travel over the Marches line between Shrewsbury and Crewe? Yes

What is confusing about that?

And at no point did I say that nothing passed me on the WCML. Nothing passed me at GRESTY, which is where the train was held until booked time.

I don't believe you. I don't know what about yet, but I don't. :roll:

This thread is about the performance of freight trains on the Marches line, and you have suggested that poor regulation is a factor. The example you have quoted refers to a train being held to time for a path on the WCML. If you could quote a case of poor regulation on the Marches line itself, it would be more relevant.

My own view that of all the problems which occur on the Marches line generally, poor regulation is not one of them.

 

[Llanigraham]

Does the Marches line begin at Crewe? NO!!

The Marches Line is the line that follows the Welsh Marcher's Lords boundary, so from Shrewsbury goes north towards Wrexham, not north-east to Crewe.
That is the CREWE line!!

 

[merlodlliw]

Hes been looking at this.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=w...Ez5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.video125.co.uk%

 

[Jamesb1974]

Does the Marches line begin at Crewe? NO!!

The Marches Line is the line that follows the Welsh Marcher's Lords boundary, so from Shrewsbury goes north towards Wrexham, not north-east to Crewe.
That is the CREWE line!!

Oh for gods sake. So we start with pedantry. Some sources (including me) think it starts in Crewe. Some (obviously you) think it doesn't go anywhere near Crewe.

Hes been looking at this.

No, HE hasn't been looking at this actually.

You try and add something worthwhile and all you get back is nit picking. No wonder this forum is considered a joke on other industry forums.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The answer is reversible modular signalling, as is planned on the Marches route.
Then there will only be one control centre - Cardiff ROC.
That assumes there will be a sensible number of signal sections and crossovers on the route, to regulate traffic past any breakdowns.
I know this is probably sensitive for some folk on here, but it's the one significant infrastructure upgrade on the line since Joint Line days.

What happened to the "North and West" line to describe Crewe-Newport?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

What happened to the "North and West" line to describe Crewe-Newport?

Yes, perhaps that's best and will save arguments!
Mind you, whatever is meant by the term 'marches' line, I will always associate it with Crewe, for the first time I travelled along it the trains were Crewe-Cardiff hauled by Class 33's'

 

[a good off]

I agree with you on the reversible bit but in my opinion the answer is certainly not modular signalling which effectively replicates the AB sections that exist now. The answer is in reversible three aspect TCB with even and logically placed signal sections. If you're going to do a job, do it properly rather than opt for a second rate solution which is no better than what its replacing. And before anyone dares mention "its cheaper" ask NR how much the Crewe - Shrewsbury and Ely - Norwich schemes actually cost for LESS capacity.

 

[Llanigraham]

Oh for gods sake. So we start with pedantry. Some sources (including me) think it starts in Crewe. Some (obviously you) think it doesn't go anywhere near Crewe.



No, HE hasn't been looking at this actually.

You try and add something worthwhile and all you get back is nit picking. No wonder this forum is considered a joke on other industry forums.

And!
Don't know why you are so aggressive.

All I know is that I work on the Marches Line, and in the signalling world the Marches Line does NOT go to Crewe, but runs Abergavenny, Hereford, Ludlow, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, though the historical land of the Marcher Lords.
The line has been called The Marches Line for over 75 years.

 

[Gareth Marston]

And!
Don't know why you are so aggressive.

All I know is that I work on the Marches Line, and in the signalling world the Marches Line does NOT go to Crewe, but runs Abergavenny, Hereford, Ludlow, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, though the historical land of the Marcher Lords.
The line has been called The Marches Line for over 75 years.

Don't care what you call it as long as you Bobby's sort out those pesky freights. I'm off to Cardiff in morning!

 

[Jamesb1974]

I am happy to say that I have apologised to Llanigraham for my outburst and we are now best of friends. We are going away to Spain to live in the sun and talk railways all day long..

 

[Llanigraham]

You fibber!!
I told you I wanted to go to Brittany and you agreed!

 

[Gareth Marston]

You fibber!!
I told you I wanted to go to Brittany and you agreed!

As long as it's hundred of miles from a ropey Colas a Rail loco on the Chirk logs

 

[Jamesb1974]

You fibber!!
I told you I wanted to go to Brittany and you agreed!

I thought you said you wanted to go WITH Britney.

Disappointed now...:cry::cry:

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well not quite a breakdown blockage this morning but a late running freight caused me to miss a connection in Shrewsbury this morning and arrive Cardiff 30 late. For many months now the DOWN Freight Loop has been severed in Shrewsbury due to work underneath the bridge. Therefore any freight from the south has to use the line through Platform 4 to access the Crewe line.

The 0514 from Aberysywyth has for many years been due to arrive in Shrewsbury at 0711 but in practice has usually been in bay platform 5 around 0705. It's allowed extra time from Aber compared to other trains even though it doesn't join up with anything at Machynlleth nor cross anything westbound. There's a Portbury to Rugeley Freightliner that runs via Crewe due just after which has had to go via Platform 4 for the last few months without problem as the ex Abr is safely tucked up in the bay. However since the December tt change the ex Abr has run into Platform 4 so it can join up with an ex Crewe service and form a 6 car peak commuter train going forward to BHM INTL @ 0733.

The Freightliner is now due 0706 through Shrewsbury and the ex Abr should follow it into Platform 4. This morning the ex Abr was held on the single track west of a Sutton Bridge Jnc as the freight was 8 late and allowed to run through Shrewsbury, by the time we arrived in Shrewsbury station @ 0718 the dispatcher had allowed the 0719 to Cardiff to close the doors and as I and 4 others rounded the island platform by the toilets the driver had applied power and was off. I ended up getting the 0744 to Cardiff which arrives Cardiff 30 after the 0719.

I am told by Traincrew that the first up from Aber is now held up 2 or 3 times a week waiting on the Freightliner clearing.

Any news on when the goods line in Shrewsbury will be brought back into use?

 

[D1009]

I am told by Traincrew that the first up from Aber is now held up 2 or 3 times a week waiting on the Freightliner clearing.

Having done a check on the Recent Train Times site, it's only the second time this year that the Cardiff connection has been missed, so it looks as though you were misinformed.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Having done a check on the Recent Train Times site, it's only the second time this year that the Cardiff connection has been missed, so it looks as though you were misinformed.

Perhaps I should have been clearer it's held up on a regular basis with the unit waiting Sutton Bridge Jnc SB to clear the coal train through. Though it appears it usually gets into Shrewsbury in time to make the 0719 connection.

Thanks for the donkey work on recent train times D1009. Once every two weeks with the same cause is still going to knacker up peoples travel plans and meetings.

29th The coal came through 17 early today! Looks like its coal train roulette until the down loop is reinstated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
30th Coal Is 10 down approaching Shrewsbury.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps I should have been clearer it's held up on a regular basis with the unit waiting Sutton Bridge Jnc SB to clear the coal train through. Though it appears it usually gets into Shrewsbury in time to make the 0719 connection.

Thanks for the donkey work on recent train times D1009. Once every two weeks with the same cause is still going to knacker up peoples travel plans and meetings.

29th The coal came through 17 early today! Looks like its coal train roulette until the down loop is reinstated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
30th Coal Is 10 down approaching Shrewsbury.....

RTT shows they let it through the Aber train didn't platform till 0720 and of course the Cardiff left at 0718!

 

[Hynod]

*Deleted

 

[Pacerpilot]

2J52 is the culprit today....loss of coolant at Whitchurch, delaying two freight trains. Something HAS to be done about this

 

[PHILIPE]

2J52 is the culprit today....loss of coolant at Whitchurch, delaying two freight trains. Something HAS to be done about this

2J52 sounds like the ID of a local passenger train and not a freight. Is it the other way round and you're upset that freights have been delayed. Whitchurch is not along the Marches and which you would have to travel in the Chester direction from Shrewsbury.
I notice you're having a rant about something having to be done about it. What is your suggestion ? It has been discussed in depth on this thread as to why nothing can be done in this age of privatiation.

 

[Hyphen]

I notice you're having a rant about something having to be done about it.

I think the winky face was meant to denote sarcasm!

 

[Llanigraham]

I think the winky face was meant to denote sarcasm!

On some mobile devices the "smillies" don't display!

Phillipe,
There has been previous disagreement as to exactly what "The Marches" comprises. It appears that we who work the line have a different opinion to some here!

 

[Tomnick]

To avoid any ambiguity, maybe we should ban any references to unofficial names for routes such as the Marches, and insist that every reference to a route is by its ELR? After all, who can definitively say what is on the Marches line and what isn't, and what is on the WCML and what isn't, and so on...

Noting also that what a particular route or feature is informally but universally known as by signalmen and other ops staff can often vary from what infrastructure staff call it, and again from what traincrew consistently call it.

 

[D1009]

I notice you're having a rant about something having to be done about it.

I think that was a reference to post #84 on page 6 of the thread.

 

[Llanigraham]

To avoid any ambiguity, maybe we should ban any references to unofficial names for routes such as the Marches, and insist that every reference to a route is by its ELR? After all, who can definitively say what is on the Marches line and what isn't, and what is on the WCML and what isn't, and so on...

Noting also that what a particular route or feature is informally but universally known as by signalmen and other ops staff can often vary from what infrastructure staff call it, and again from what traincrew consistently call it.

What does ELR mean?