Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[SteveRainhill]

I had a quick tour around all the Phase 2 routes today on a Lancashire Day Ranger. Although a lot has been done over the Christams/New year blockade in the ManVic-Ordsall area, as described on here, it seems to me that there is an awful lot of work still to do between Wigan/Earlestown and Edge Hill if it is all to be powered up by Dec 2014! It took ~3 years to do the 15 miles of the Chat Moss Line and there does not appear to be a great deal of progress on the rest since last summer! Why is the installation so patchy/haphazard and unsystematic? i.e. stretches with bases/steelwork in place but with so many gaps and uncompleted bits and pieces, rather than working continuously from A to B? No sign of any wiring, or the prospect of any, since the completion of Stage 1 several months ago.

I agree it looks both haphazard and slow. Had a look round Roby over the holiday period, where the new subway is open and there is some further progress on platform refurbishments and extensions, and sheet piling has appeared along much of the embankment to the west. At Rainhill there is no sign apart from an equipment cabinet that appeared last year (and of course the bridge works, two out of three of which had to be redone or revised). There are foundation or test excavations to the east that have been there for months.

I assume there is some rhyme or reason to it, even though it is not apparent to the observer. Presumably phase 1 does not give an entire picture of the likely speed, since it involved more tricky ground conditions. And in any case, despite numerous dire prognostications, they did get it finished on time.

On the Victoria works, I'm interested to see the different form of the OLE bases, apparently involving a fairly shallow foundation pad with another shallow slab laid on top. I suppose having to do with its being on made ground on a viaduct. I wonder how they attach the slab to the pad - it doesn't seem to be bolted. With some kind of glue?

 

[snowball]

I assume there is some rhyme or reason to it, even though it is not apparent to the observer. Presumably phase 1 does not give an entire picture of the likely speed, since it involved more tricky ground conditions. And in any case, despite numerous dire prognostications, they did get it finished on time.

Perhaps people are suspicious because they announced completion five months before it happened.

 

[The Planner]

By now you would have expected the old signalling to have been replaced, clearing the site for construction, but it's still there.

It won't go for a good while yet as it meant to be the first that goes into Ashbury ROC.

 

[DJH1971]

Things seem to have gone a bit quiet on this thread.

It appears no trains are running on the Chat Moss line on Sundays for the time being, so they can crack on with the section between Wavertree to Earlestown.

Whilst dog walking this morning on what used to be Bold Collery at the Millenium footbridge, I saw evidence of more work taking place to install mast bases and/or OHL structures, with men on the line and a pile driver being used.

Here are some pictures I took this morning.

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Saw a little bit more OHL steelwork today in St Helens on the line just before St Helens Central, with more steelwork visible over the bridge crossing Chalow Way near the hotel.

 

[ianhr]

Things seem to have gone a bit quiet on this thread.

It appears no trains are running on the Chat Moss line on Sundays for the time being, so they can crack on with the section between Wavertree to Earlestown.

Whilst dog walking this morning on what used to be Bold Collery at the Millenium footbridge, I saw evidence of more work taking place to install mast bases and/or OHL structures, with men on the line and a pile driver being used.


Saw a little bit more OHL steelwork today in St Helens on the line just before St Helens Central, with more steelwork visible over the bridge crossing Chalow Way near the hotel.

Thanks for report, good that you are keeping an eye on it locally. Maybe the weekend possessions will speed things up a bit. Am I right in thinking Liverpool-Wigan is bus replacement on Sundays for the next few months?

 

[DJH1971]

Thanks for report, good that you are keeping an eye on it locally. Maybe the weekend possessions will speed things up a bit. Am I right in thinking Liverpool-Wigan is bus replacement on Sundays for the next few months?

Most probably.

Things have been a tad quiet lately, but I have a feeling it will pick up speed now.

 

[507 001]

Track laying has commenced on the new alignment between broad green and roby, ballast base and sleepers down so far!

 

[DJH1971]

Track laying has commenced on the new alignment between broad green and roby, ballast base and sleepers down so far!

Good to be hearing this!

 

[Viscount702]

As we know Victoria platforms 3 to 6 and the lines to Salford Central/Crescent are closed on Sunday until May I think for electrification works. Does anyone have any up dates on this bit.

Also I find it odd that the works going on here on Sunday don't seem to appear in the NR engineering works section.

 

[DavidL]

A few blurry from the train photos re the Roby track laying...

 

[transmanche]

Also I find it odd that the works going on here on Sunday don't seem to appear in the NR engineering works section.

They won't appear if the changes are already included in the timetable - they only show alterations to the timetable.

E.g. in Northern timetable booklet 27 (Blackpool North to Manchester Victoria) it includes Sunday timetables for 'up to 29 December', '5 January to 9 February' and 'from 16 February' - so there are no changes to the advertised timetable.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Track laying has commenced on the new alignment between broad green and roby, ballast base and sleepers down so far!

The thing is, are they going to lay a double track with a bit missing at Huyton, or only a single track and come back later to do the second?
I'd do some viewing myself but am in foreign parts for a few weeks.
Then there's the main line junction to lay in, which I imagine will need more than a Sunday's possession.

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought the plan was lay a third and then come back and lay a fourth about a year later as it required structure alterations?

 

[The Planner]

I was under the impression it was going to be all 4 with a gap in the fourth until the TWO was sorted for the land needed. Joesph Locke should know the score.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought the plan was lay a third and then come back and lay a fourth about a year later as it required structure alterations?

I think the troublesome bit is just east of Huyton station, where the land for the 4th track is not (yet) in NR ownership.
It's just that if they laid in the new 4-track junctions and signalling now, it would save another heap of closures over the whole layout in only a year or so's time.
We'll soon know I suppose.

 

[L+Y]

I've asked this elsewhere: is there any news on the proposal to reinstate the closed platforms at Salford Central station? Or has this faded into obscurity?

Great to see the four-tracking is beginning in earnest at Huyton/Roby!

 

[8A Rail]

I think the troublesome bit is just east of Huyton station, where the land for the 4th track is not (yet) in NR ownership.
It's just that if they laid in the new 4-track junctions and signalling now, it would save another heap of closures over the whole layout in only a year or so's time.
We'll soon know I suppose.

Here is the link to the proposals / plans of the re-instatement of the four tracks and Huyton Junction too. I dont think anything has changed in the intervening period:- http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.ne...Roby and Huyton stations expansion enc. 1.pdf

 

[YorkshireBear]

Interesting layout. Seems pretty flexible and quite efficient.

Maybe we will start to see more 4 track sections in similar areas under electrification. Particularly referring to the Sheffield-Leeds/Doncaster corridors.

 

[DJH1971]

I've asked this elsewhere: is there any news on the proposal to reinstate the closed platforms at Salford Central station? Or has this faded into obscurity?

Great to see the four-tracking is beginning in earnest at Huyton/Roby!

Not heard anything, but it something that needs to be done.

 

[The Planner]

Passive provision for the extra platforms but I have heard that the new signalling where the platforms are planned would require some creative timetabling due to the positions and overlaps.

 

[WatcherZero]

Salford Central platform reinstatement is still on (though not approved formally), being financed by Salford Council last I heard.

 

[DJH1971]

Salford Central platform reinstatement is still on (though not approved formally), being financed by Salford Council last I heard.

So, there is hope!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I was under the impression it was going to be all 4 with a gap in the fourth until the TWO was sorted for the land needed. Joesph Locke should know the score.

Mr Planner is correct, on all counts.

 

[thealexweb]

Salford Central platform reinstatement is still on (though not approved formally), being financed by Salford Council last I heard.

Yes! The current setup is utter madness.

Pic of the current setup.

 

[Dunc108]

Salford Central platform reinstatement is still on (though not approved formally), being financed by Salford Council last I heard.

I noticed in the recent mass vegetation clearance it seems to take this inevitable development into account, & the benefits are obvious.

 

[ianhr]

Interesting layout. Seems pretty flexible and quite efficient.

Maybe we will start to see more 4 track sections in similar areas under electrification. Particularly referring to the Sheffield-Leeds/Doncaster corridors.

The only constraint seems to be that St.Helen's/Wigan trains can only use P2 & P4 through the stations when the 4-track version is complete. Do we know anything about the new service pattern? At the moment Wigan trains are all stations but the Blackpool trains are fast or at least limited stop.

More 4 track is desperately needed between Manchester & Leeds. The only scheme I have heard of was Diggle-Marsden but this seems to have been abandoned on the grounds that electric trains have better acceleration. However if the line is congested and a rapidly accelerating electric train backs up behind an all stations local it will be still be running on yellows, electric or not! 4 tracks could easily be reinstated between Heaton Lodge and Thornhill LNW junctions. Until the mid 1960's there were 4 tracks all the way if we count 2 routes Manchester-Stalybridge, the Micklehurst Loop, and the Leeds New Line.

 

[Bevan Price]

The only constraint seems to be that St.Helen's/Wigan trains can only use P2 & P4 through the stations when the 4-track version is complete. Do we know anything about the new service pattern? At the moment Wigan trains are all stations but the Blackpool trains are fast or at least limited stop.
.

Nothing definite, but there are suggestions that there might (eventually) be 2 Liverpool - Preston semi-fasts per hour, in addition to the all stations to Wigan. On some hours, the second Preston path could be available for any possible future Liverpool - Scotland services.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Nothing definite, but there are suggestions that there might (eventually) be 2 Liverpool - Preston semi-fasts per hour, in addition to the all stations to Wigan. On some hours, the second Preston path could be available for any possible future Liverpool - Scotland services.

I have concerns about Liverpool Scotland services. Are they going to join to the Manchester on route? If yes then is 4 cars enough into Manchester as currently it is not as 8 cars are sometimes used now.

Secondly if not, do we have enough paths on WCML north for them? Again i am not convinced we do. With freight aspirations and HS2 around the corner i am very concerned about what we are going to do with the WCML north.

And before anyone says anything, i do think Liverpool should have services to Scotland. But i am not entirely sure on the path availability is all.

 

[Bevan Price]

I have concerns about Liverpool Scotland services. Are they going to join to the Manchester on route? If yes then is 4 cars enough into Manchester as currently it is not as 8 cars are sometimes used now.

Secondly if not, do we have enough paths on WCML north for them? Again i am not convinced we do. With freight aspirations and HS2 around the corner i am very concerned about what we are going to do with the WCML north.

And before anyone says anything, i do think Liverpool should have services to Scotland. But i am not entirely sure on the path availability is all.

IF Liverpool ever regains Scottish services, I suspect they will be combined with Manchester services north of Wigan or Preston, and quite possibly no more than 2 or 3 per day each way.

 

[DJH1971]

IF Liverpool ever regains Scottish services, I suspect they will be combined with Manchester services north of Wigan or Preston, and quite possibly no more than 2 or 3 per day each way.

At least that's something.