Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[YorkshireBear]

Is the second phase being installed differently to avoid the well documented problems of phase 1?

Did the planned energisation happen this weekend? Is it fixed together yet? Wish i lived in the NW at this moment although things will start to appear around me in the next few years.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just a quick report to say that things again seem to have sped on around Garswood and St Helens Central.

More masts now up eastwards to beyond Bryn on the Down.
There is a lot more steelwork visible east of St Helens Central.

Mast bases continue eastwards from Rainhill on the main line, and there are a couple now at each end of the Down platform at St Helens Junction.
On the Up the bases reach as far as the former Widnes line overbridge.

No direct sign of electric working on Phase 1 today, but I did see an NR inspection train containing test coach Mentor (the OHLE tester) at the buffers in Manchester Piccadilly around 1320.

EDIT 1: According to this http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U95917/2013/11/25/advanced
Mentor did a tour of south Manchester today, including Trafford Park, but did not venture onto the Chat Moss line.
EDIT 2: Checking realtimetrains it seems Mentor toured the Chat Moss line on 2 days last week (Nov 20/21).
There's also a mysterious planned TP Class 350 working Preston-Golborne-Ardwick on Sat 23 Nov - but it was cancelled. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80215/2013/11/23/advanced

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Is the second phase being installed differently to avoid the well documented problems of phase 1?

Phase 2 - yes, better
Phase 3 - I hope so
Phase 4 & 5 - yes

 

[swt_passenger]

EDIT 2: Checking realtimetrains it seems Mentor toured the Chat Moss line on 2 days last week (Nov 20/21).

I believe Mentor can do measurements of contact wire position without its pan up, which is apparently what was happening last week. There's a photo here:

http://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains2013-1/November-2013/i-W8LJMRq

 

[Wavertreelad]

I believe Network Rail are removing mature trees and shrubs from the banks of Olive Mount Cutting between Rathbone Road and Mill Lane just west of Wavertree Station which might allow some better shots into the cutting.

In the meantime, the link below shows cutting at the present site of Wavertree Technology Park station in 1883 probably just before the Edge Hill Circular line which crossed the cutting was opened.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/72-uk-prototype-questions/

You may need to register to view the picture.

 

[Ploughman]

Link not open to public viewing.

 

[Wavertreelad]

I believe Network Rail are removing mature trees and shrubs from the banks of Olive Mount Cutting between Rathbone Road and Mill Lane just west of Wavertree Station which might allow some better shots into the cutting.

In the meantime, the link below shows cutting at the present site of Wavertree Technology Park station in 1883 probably just before the Edge Hill Circular line which crossed the cutting was opened.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/72-uk-prototype-questions/

You may need to register to view the picture.

Picture now attached copyright status unknown.

Sight correction the Network Rail work is of course being carried out to the east of Wavertree Tech Station.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Saw a load of masts on back of a lorry heading up the M1 yesterday.

 

[Holly]

Picture now attached copyright status unknown. ...

It's always shocking isn't it? To realise how much we have lost. How much we have thrown away and how hard it would be to get even half of it back.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Everything seems to have gone very quiet on the Chat Moss electric front.
It's a week since test coach Mentor went over the line and there don't appear to have been any electric workings since.
This suggests more delays in the commissioning programme.
Does anybody know what is happening?
The weekly class 350 TP ECS Preston-Ardwick working late Saturday is on realtimetrains for tomorrow, but then it has been for a couple of months.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80215/2013/11/30/advanced

 

[YorkshireBear]

FTPE have announced first train is not set to run until 30th December, NR have got ages.

 

[Manchester77]

Isn't a 390 supposed to use it this weekend or something?

 

[The Planner]

No, NR have pulled it apparently.

 

[Manchester77]

Good job that the OHLE doesn't have to be live on the 8th then, although if TPE want electrics in service on the 30th something needs to happen.

Has a Network Rail test train ran yet?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has a Network Rail test train run yet?

That's what Mentor is. It toured the line on November 20/21.
TP and other TOCs need time to train for electric working over the line.
Every delay knocks on to Phase 2 and increases the cost.

 

[Manchester77]

That's what Mentor is. It toured the line on November 20/21.
TP and other TOCs need time to train for electric working over the line.
Every delay knocks on to Phase 2 and increases the cost.

Cheers at least it's just TPE who needs training to begin with

 

[YorkshireBear]

That's what Mentor is. It toured the line on November 20/21.
TP and other TOCs need time to train for electric working over the line.
Every delay knocks on to Phase 2 and increases the cost.

Hopefully staffed will all be trained using paths on WCML. Then just route knowledge which they already have using 185s so actually i don't think training staff will be a massive issue.

From what i understand the reason Phase 1 is taking so long to complete is because they are not sacrificing the schedule for phase 2. They could finish it very quickly if they delayed phase 2.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Phase 2 isn't at the wiring stage yet, so I would not suppose there is much clash of resources.
I can see possessions being a problem, seeing as they are 3 months late.
I'm more concerned about the longer term issues than whether TP can run an electric train this year.
It's deathly quiet about the GW HOPS kit as well.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think of a few of us on here predicted and i certainly had my concerns which i voiced in my uni research last year that we would not have enough staff resources to complete what the government want NR to do in the time they want NR to do it.

 

[HowardGWR]

I think of a few of us on here predicted and i certainly had my concerns which i voiced in my uni research last year that we would not have enough staff resources to complete what the government want NR to do in the time they want NR to do it.

Well, I understand China is producing over a million engineering graduates per year and India not far behind, so perhaps some of these could be enticed. Oh, no, of course, we mustn't have any more 'unwanted immigrants' must we?

 

[Nym]

Well, I understand China is producing over a million engineering graduates per year and India not far behind, so perhaps some of these could be enticed. Oh, no, of course, we mustn't have any more 'unwanted immigrants' must we?

Engineering Graduates can't build railways or trains...

 

[ironstone11]

Engineering Graduates can't build railways or trains...

It's experienced fitters and technicians that are required.

 

[Phil6219]

It's experienced fitters and technicians that are required.

Or trainees but just like most jobs in this country these days nobody will actually train you, likewise despite what they say apprenticeships never go to anyone over 21 (which I believe is wrong as someone older than 21 is more likely to know what they want in life and less likely to sack it off after a few weeks or months).

My question is, as I was driving along the M602, there was a double track, with OHLE on my left for a few miles or so, before the road then lost sight with it.

That is the Manchester - Liverpool line, it runs parallel to the M602 from the start of the motorway (the big roundabout where Regent Road - the duel carriage way from the flyover in Manchester) until Eccles where it turns slightly towards Patricroft then passes over the M60 and onwards to Chat Moss and Liverpool. Heading in the Manchester direction as the M602 rises to the roundabout the railway continues on under the roundabout and out onto Ordsall Lane Jn on the other side then splits to either Deansgate or Manchester Victoria.

Phil

 

[dysonsphere]

Or trainees but just like most jobs in this country these days nobody will actually train you, likewise despite what they say apprenticeships never go to anyone over 21 (which I believe is wrong as someone older than 21 is more likely to know what they want in life and less likely to sack it off after a few weeks or months).

Quite right i'm 55 and have more chance of seeing a flying pig than to get any form of retraining. Despite what the goverment claims retraining for older people isnt there. I wouldnt mind a job on the rewiring work but get trained forget it (Rant over )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That is the Manchester - Liverpool line, it runs parallel to the M602 from the start of the motorway (the big roundabout where Regent Road - the duel carriage way from the flyover in Manchester) until Eccles where it turns slightly towards Patricroft then passes over the M60 and onwards to Chat Moss and Liverpool. Heading in the Manchester direction as the M602 rises to the roundabout the railway continues on under the roundabout and out onto Ordsall Lane Jn on the other side then splits to either Deansgate or Manchester Victoria.

After leaving Eccles railway station and heading into Salford, there were once four railway stations at:-
Weaste
Seedley
Cross Lane
Ordsall Lane

 

[Class377/5]

Hopefully staffed will all be trained using paths on WCML. Then just route knowledge which they already have using 185s so actually i don't think training staff will be a massive issue.

From what i understand the reason Phase 1 is taking so long to complete is because they are not sacrificing the schedule for phase 2. They could finish it very quickly if they delayed phase 2.

Are TPE drivers trained on the via Eccles route to already?

 

[Eagle]

It's already a standard diversionary route for them (and has been for at least the last few years).

The 05.46 Piccadilly to Blackpool North and the 20.08 Barrow to Man Airport go that way in the current timetable.

 

[Class377/5]

It's already a standard diversionary route for them (and has been for at least the last few years).

The 05.46 Piccadilly to Blackpool North and the 20.08 Barrow to Man Airport go that way in the current timetable.

Thanks, I wasn't sure they knew it so getting the 350s funning is more a case of getting the wires sorted and a few test runs then.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's already a standard diversionary route for them (and has been for at least the last few years).

The 05.46 Piccadilly to Blackpool North and the 20.08 Barrow to Man Airport go that way in the current timetable.

Even Northern have a couple of ECS workings Preston-Golborne Jn-Victoria.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y47099/2013/12/02/advanced

 

[steverailer]

Quite right i'm 55 and have more chance of seeing a flying pig than to get any form of retraining. Despite what the goverment claims retraining for older people isnt there. I wouldnt mind a job on the rewiring work but get trained forget it (Rant over )

Some firm do though. I'm 40 and am being trained by me co as a linesman, and know of 3/4 who are willing to train older guys. Try Bourne Rail, TES, MDA, Rail op