Mainliner
Member
Quite - I use EC every week, but nothing I've read in this thread, nor any special offer from EC, would tempt me to try FC as, quite simply, I don't want to leave it to chance as to whether and when I get a hot 'meal' or snack.
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London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service
- Thread starter MidnightFlyer
- Start date
Quite - I use EC every week, but nothing I've read in this thread, nor any special offer from EC, would tempt me to try FC as, quite simply, I don't want to leave it to chance as to whether and when I get a hot 'meal' or snack.
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RailUK Forums
Even without the menu, he could still see the cake and fruit that was on the trolley; could he not have asked about them, in the same way you ask about the contents of the paid-for trolley in standard class?
When the trolley first came round for me, I didn't fancy a sandwich. But I saw they had crisps, so asked for some and got them. If I'd asked for a banana from the fruit basked I saw at the bottom, I'd have no doubt got that too. Or if I'd asked "what sort of things have you got there?", I'm sure I would have been told.
I just can't help but think that people are aware that there's problems, then try and actually create some just to complain. Doing that means that the genuine issues (lack of choice in hot options, decreasing quality etc.) get buried.
It's a classic case of someone believing the advertising, and being disappointed. In the circumstances, I would be surprised if the poster would travel in first class again.
They may well have travelled on a train before at a similar time, possibly a while ago, which would have reinforced their expectations of a hot meal.
I thought it was clear from the post that the passenger expected that the trolley would return after his 'main course' (I use the term loosely), at which time he would be offered, or would have requested, a cake or a piece of fruit.
It's very rare, when I eat out at a pub, a cafe, or a fine dining restaurant that I have to decide what I want for dessert before I have eaten my main. If I am aske dto order dessert at the same time as my main meal, I won't go there again, it's just not right!
Again, expectations are not met in reality.
See above - the trolley didn't reappear by the sound of it!
Issues with service delivery are just as relevant and just as important as the other issues you mention. A customer who is expecting soemthing akin to what they might have received prior to May 22nd is going to be sorely disappointed, as in this instance. How likely will that person be to use FC next time? That is the real issue here for EC.
Travel first class on a plane and see if they pass by without offering or explaining what they've got, or don't come back to ask if you want anything else later.
Even in economy on a plane, they'll usually ask what you want by explaining what there is (a limited choice, yes, but not simply a trolley that you must try and scan from an awkward angle).
EC may have the best intentions on providing a first class service, but due to differences between a plane and train, and some staff that would rather not offer the service, you have what you get.
Why should someone who may be travelling first class for the first time on EC (the people EC want to attract and retain) have to know all the tricks, as well as knowing that if you don't ask in one go (however greedy that sounds) you won't get?
On a plane, I'd be embarrassed to ask for everything at once, expecting to be told 'we'll be back for that later, sir' and everyone around sniggering to themselves. On EC, it seems that you have to be as bold and brazen as possible to get anything, and be willing to demand more than you're offered - even though it's likely to annoy the staff who didn't want to offer a service in the first place.
There have been many good stories on this huge thread, but as long as there's doubt I know for a fact that I will never pay the extra for FC unless there's a deal that's too good to refuse. There's too much uncertainty and I always seem to be the one that is unlucky!
I suppose from EC's point of view, there will be a number of passengers who will travel first class regardless of service. If the service for them is bad, they'll not stop travelling - they'll just stop bothering to ask for anything. EC will then save money and be able to say that they offered the complimentary stuff but people turned it down (for the many reasons mentioned; i.e. you can't risk not eating then find there's no food!).
Even in economy on a plane, they'll usually ask what you want by explaining what there is (a limited choice, yes, but not simply a trolley that you must try and scan from an awkward angle).
EC may have the best intentions on providing a first class service, but due to differences between a plane and train, and some staff that would rather not offer the service, you have what you get.
Why should someone who may be travelling first class for the first time on EC (the people EC want to attract and retain) have to know all the tricks, as well as knowing that if you don't ask in one go (however greedy that sounds) you won't get?
On a plane, I'd be embarrassed to ask for everything at once, expecting to be told 'we'll be back for that later, sir' and everyone around sniggering to themselves. On EC, it seems that you have to be as bold and brazen as possible to get anything, and be willing to demand more than you're offered - even though it's likely to annoy the staff who didn't want to offer a service in the first place.
There have been many good stories on this huge thread, but as long as there's doubt I know for a fact that I will never pay the extra for FC unless there's a deal that's too good to refuse. There's too much uncertainty and I always seem to be the one that is unlucky!
I suppose from EC's point of view, there will be a number of passengers who will travel first class regardless of service. If the service for them is bad, they'll not stop travelling - they'll just stop bothering to ask for anything. EC will then save money and be able to say that they offered the complimentary stuff but people turned it down (for the many reasons mentioned; i.e. you can't risk not eating then find there's no food!).
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Some excellent points there Jon. I think you are probably spot on about the EC attitude to passengers. It fits in with my theory that they are just making the figures look good by cutting down on expense while temporarily increasing revenue. Why should they care about attracting and retaining new business if there is a core that will stay with them come what may?
I saw on a programme about how BA cabin crew were trained to serve food. I never realised that they are made to ensure that everyone is served the food the exact same way; with everything laid out in the same way, and facing the same way to the passenger.
The reason was simple; someone will see the food given to the person(s) next to them and wonder why they got more, say an extra sausage or whatever.
I wonder if EC has that same attention to detail when serving the food so everyone feels they're being treated equal?
The reason was simple; someone will see the food given to the person(s) next to them and wonder why they got more, say an extra sausage or whatever.
I wonder if EC has that same attention to detail when serving the food so everyone feels they're being treated equal?
I know I write without having experienced it, but many people say they don't have menus for whatever reason. Asking to have everything available explained by the staff must be very annoying for staff, so it's no wonder they don't volunteer the information unless asked. That's not to say I defend it, but I understand it.
Without any menu card, there's also no way of knowing how the service operates. How many visits from staff are there, is the order taken for everything at once, or do they offer drinks first, then food later? Do you ask for dessert with your food, or get that from the trolley while you wait for the food to be prepared? If you get a sandwich, can you order more food? How do you ask for more drinks? CAN you ask for more drinks? More than one at the same time, or as and when?....
I wouldn't say knowing the above is a 'trick' but it would certainly help to have an idea - and for it to work the same way every time you travel on an EC train.
You should be looking forward to being offered food/drink, not stressing out and then feeling let down - or angry that they failed to offer something you'd have liked, but missed your tiny window of opportunity.
I still say that if you went first class on a plane, you'd be clearly guided through everything and they'd make sure to offer you things even if it meant repeating the same thing over and over. It's part of the job of being cabin crew, whereas I am sure some EC staff never actually signed up to give that sort of service on a train.
Perhaps EC should install service call buttons at the seats?!
Without any menu card, there's also no way of knowing how the service operates. How many visits from staff are there, is the order taken for everything at once, or do they offer drinks first, then food later? Do you ask for dessert with your food, or get that from the trolley while you wait for the food to be prepared? If you get a sandwich, can you order more food? How do you ask for more drinks? CAN you ask for more drinks? More than one at the same time, or as and when?....
I wouldn't say knowing the above is a 'trick' but it would certainly help to have an idea - and for it to work the same way every time you travel on an EC train.
You should be looking forward to being offered food/drink, not stressing out and then feeling let down - or angry that they failed to offer something you'd have liked, but missed your tiny window of opportunity.
I still say that if you went first class on a plane, you'd be clearly guided through everything and they'd make sure to offer you things even if it meant repeating the same thing over and over. It's part of the job of being cabin crew, whereas I am sure some EC staff never actually signed up to give that sort of service on a train.
Perhaps EC should install service call buttons at the seats?!
Just stand there? In my (admittedly limited) experience they come round with the trolley and ask each passenger if they'd like anything. I don't see how it's too much to ask for passengers to enquire what there is on offer if they want to know.
The very least they could do is give an indication of what might be available. Like 'TWould you like anything to eat? Today we have sandwiches, snacks, fruit or a couple of hot options'. The passenger can then ask for furthe rinformation on any of these, like what types of sarnie, rather than having to ask a long list of questions.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Agreed. Last week I was left with my empty glass and 'given an indication' that the team would be 'coming round again shortly with the wine'.
They did come round again. To clear up the empty glasses! And that was only around Newark (still 2 hours to Newcastle!).
HullMichael
Member
- Joined
- 20 Aug 2011
- Messages
- 33
I think the problem here is that the menu is a general all-encompassing one which is actually half a dozen or so menus. It is not at all obvious which of these is in operation on any given train. When the trolley comes round the staff ask if you want anything, but they don't tell you which menu is in operation and therefore which hot options are available. Many people will assume that what they can see on the trolley is all that's available and as I said the staff make no attempt to inform them differently. Regular travellers will soon work this out, but new customers (which surely this is supposed to be attracting) can easily miss out and probably won't come back.
Quite. I wouldn't expect the staff to recite the entire menu, but soem sort of welcoming statement incluidng some basic info on what is available (especially as they seem to run out of things so often) hardly seems like too much to ask!
blackfive460
Member
- Joined
- 23 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 869
Exactly!
And this is exactly what never seems to happen leaving one with the impression that they'd really rather not bother with any of it.
It used to be all so simple. Tea and biscuits plus the option to pay for anything more substantial or bring your own. Everyone knew where they were then...
I'll be interested to compare EC, Eurostar and various European operators later this week!
Eurostar keeps things simple and they never failed to deliver. The consistency from one day to the next also made you feel comfortable as you knew what to expect - yet anyone on their first journey wouldn't think it was a daunting experience. Far from it.
Likewise on a plane, where you're really treated like a VIP.
I don't think EC staff are all willing to do that, even if the EC marketing was all about making people welcome. Trains are different. Eurostar is different too, as it's more like the plane - but because of how it operates, it can be. Nobody would want EC or FGW to become like an airline service - so why try and offer the same service and then fail miserably?
Likewise on a plane, where you're really treated like a VIP.
I don't think EC staff are all willing to do that, even if the EC marketing was all about making people welcome. Trains are different. Eurostar is different too, as it's more like the plane - but because of how it operates, it can be. Nobody would want EC or FGW to become like an airline service - so why try and offer the same service and then fail miserably?
Great idea. (No, not being sarcastic!)
Presumably because all they could see were pound signs from the money they thought theyw ere going to save?
I notice Eurostar are very airline. For example there head catering crew member is called a"purser". The food tends to be good though. FGWs catering is the same model as whatNXECs/ECs used to be with selected restaurant services in the peaks and at seat dining on most weekday "all day" services. NX probably modelled that offer based on FGWs which has ran for many years. This new offer is more Virgin style.
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Butts
Veteran Member
This is exactly what they do on Virgin - they don't try and hide anything.
Talking of Aeroplane catering as some have - can you imagine if there was a call button to summon the steward !!!
EC Staff would be thrown into a right tizzy
YorkshireRider
Member
I cant help but think you might have this spot on in some instances, although im sure not all. While i wouldnt go as far as saying anyone posting on here is lying, they are perhaps bending the facts to suit their agenda which is fine but not very balanced. Figures between now and the end of next March will see if its working or not as the initial promotions are now finished but even if it doesnt at least we have kitchen equipment and fridges (after some teething problems on HSTs now sorted) that work. Unlike under the god awful NXEC with trains been run into the ground to a potentially dangerous level, but not to worry because you could still buy a £10 burger.
I doubt there are that many people who are paying to go FC just to wind up staff and create situations to warrant making a complaint (or posting on here).
It's a rather expensive thing to do, and I am sure most people would rather just get given loads of free food and drink, as the advertising suggests. At King's Cross they had a poster showing a hamper full of food and snacks, with bottles of wine propped up against it!! I think EC may have allowed itself to get a bit carried away with giving people high expectations that turns out to be two crackers and a bit of cheese, plus a small glass of wine (and don't have any more as that's being greedy!)
It's a rather expensive thing to do, and I am sure most people would rather just get given loads of free food and drink, as the advertising suggests. At King's Cross they had a poster showing a hamper full of food and snacks, with bottles of wine propped up against it!! I think EC may have allowed itself to get a bit carried away with giving people high expectations that turns out to be two crackers and a bit of cheese, plus a small glass of wine (and don't have any more as that's being greedy!)
Where did you get that idea from?
The post above I would imagine, from EC staff.
I accept people may exaggerate their experience to match their argument, but people have come on and said about both the good and bad. That's enough to put me off, given I'm bound to get the bad, but when people upload photos then that's quite telling.
Perhaps everyone on here who uses EC should take a photo of everything they get and attach it; it's not hard to do that. Then people can judge for themselves.
Perhaps everyone on here who uses EC should take a photo of everything they get and attach it; it's not hard to do that. Then people can judge for themselves.
That's what I was thinking about doing on tommorows Highland Cheiften.
Sent from my HTC Desire S
I'm not sure how anyone could infer from that post, that people are paying for FC tickets just to complain.
YorkshireRider
Member
Who said anything about winding staff up? The main benefits of going FC and paying the extra are the space and comfort in the main rather than the freebies but some people do like a bit of a moan, just some.
Depends how you look at it really.
Given we are now over 110 pages and many members on here have specifically bought FC tickets in order to try the service, they have of course posted their opinions, some good but many bad.
So, from that post, no you couldn't infer that, but over the course of the last few months and the members that did the above, then yes you could. Couple that with the fact that EC staff have replied all of the way through, then replied with the above comment, you could make that assumption from that post.