London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Starmill]

An extra Bank Holiday has been declared in Virginland in addition to Scotland, so it's the Weekend Menu all day today...

 

[SteveP29]

I have a complaint in with VTEC at the moment.
Got stuck at Carlisle on the morning of the first set of floods in December. Was in 1st class on the 07:05 Edinburgh- Newcastle (Via Carlisle and Tyne Valley)
Hour and a half from Edinburgh to Carlisle, received our 3rd drinks round as we arrived in Carlisle. We were stuck in Carlisle for an hour and a half, and then an hour and 45 minutes to Newcastle.
In that 3 hours and 15 minutes, the refreshment trolley never came round at all.

December 17th, myself and my partner travelled to London from Edinburgh. Having booked 24 weeks in advance, I could only get tickets delivered to home instead of pick up at the station as I always do. I subsequently forgot the tickets, thinking they were in the machine at Waverley (obviously not).
As my partner's daughter was with us and she'd booked 1st class to be with us that day, my partner insisted we travel 1st too, so a new set of return tickets had to be bought, at a cost of £572.
The VTEC 1st class offering is not anywhere near worth that price. barley risotto was the 'hot' offering. I took the continental platter (1 slice of almost see through salami, 1 slice of almost see through prosciutto, some greenery, 2 tiny balls of mozarella cheese and 2 bread buns that would embarrass a hamster for their tinyness)
The toilet in our coach was disgusting, we were on the 10am out of Edinburgh, so there was no reason it should have been so untidy (my partner said she actually cleaned the toilet before she used it)
Half cups of tea/ coffee (as has already been mentioned).
Under East Coast, travelling Edinburgh to London, there was always the hot meal and then further in the journey, the sandwich meal. Now there is just the one meal.
If I can persuade her, I think next time we travel top London, I think we'll fly. It might take longer door to door, but it will be cheaper and be less of a rip off.

 

[Starmill]

I've often felt like that about people who pay £hundreds for a single journey in First Class. There's no way it would ever be worth it, because service is so 'cheap'. I often feel like it's not worth it paying £25, although not always. Given they've got people using it who are paying that much (even for Advances I've seen several at > £100) it does surprise me it's not more 'premium' or that those business / very wealthy customers don't choose something else.

 

[SteveP29]

I've often felt like that about people who pay £hundreds for a single journey in First Class. There's no way it would ever be worth it, because service is so 'cheap'. I often feel like it's not worth it paying £25, although not always. Given they've got people using it who are paying that much (even for Advances I've seen several at > £100) it does surprise me it's not more 'premium' or that those business / very wealthy customers don't choose something else.

Our original tickets had only cost £169 total for both of us, so the price has almost trebled in 6 months.
We did some investigation on the train and we found tickets that would have only cost us £400. Still disgraceful but available, and that's what my complaint with VTEC was mainly about.
It was especially galling that our coach was less than half full.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's increasingly a leisure (or at weekends self upgraded) product - fewer and fewer businesses will pay for it.

 

[me123]

As my partner's daughter was with us and she'd booked 1st class to be with us that day, my partner insisted we travel 1st too, so a new set of return tickets had to be bought, at a cost of £572.
The VTEC 1st class offering is not anywhere near worth that price.

I completely agree that £572 return does not offer good value for money on VTEC FC. Or any FC on a UK TOC. That's an exceptionally high fare which is probably a walk-up ticket and I cannot fathom spending that on FC. To be honest, for that fare to be worthwhile you'd probably have to have Heston Blumenthal cooking you a nine course tasting menu, and have lie flat bed with a widescreen TV.

Most people on here (and indeed in the general population) purchase FC advance tickets, which do offer value for money. When I've traveled FC on EC, it's on an advance ticket that is generally around twice the fare of the standard advances. That would be worthwhile for me, in terms of additional space/comfort, and the complimentary offer. I do not think that the walk up fares can be considered good value for anyone.

 

[Iskra]

It's increasingly a leisure (or at weekends self upgraded) product - fewer and fewer businesses will pay for it.

Yet, ironically unless you're a business type you're often judged to be unworthy of decent service by the FC staff and treated with contempt. The whole culture of VTEC 1st class stinks of contempt and stinginess.

 

[Starmill]

I completely agree that £572 return does not offer good value for money on VTEC FC. Or any FC on a UK TOC. That's an exceptionally high fare which is probably a walk-up ticket and I cannot fathom spending that on FC. To be honest, for that fare to be worthwhile you'd probably have to have Heston Blumenthal cooking you a nine course tasting menu, and have lie flat bed with a widescreen TV.

Well I was wondering, because a First Off-Peak Return from Edinburgh to London is £344.50. Two of those would be £689.

What you needed to do was get a Two Together Railcard (£30) and then immediately purchase two £227.35 First Off-Peak Returns for £454.70. Still an outrageous amount that very few people would even consider.

The other thing to do would be to purchase a Standard Class Super Off-Peak Return for £89.45 each with a railcard and see if the Train Guard would offer an upgrade. They may be able to upgrade you for less than the full excess to First at their discretion - mostly if First is very lightly reserved and loaded (pretty unlikely to be honest on an Edinburgh Express but worth a shot).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I was wondering, because a First Off-Peak Return from Edinburgh to London is £344.50.

That is still outrageous.

Personally, I would rather they cut inclusive service (because not everybody *wants* a meal) and reduced FC fares to the usual European multipler of 1.6 times the relevant Standard fare, for all Standard fare types except possibly Advances.

If they did that, I would probably travel First Class at all times on personal journeys, and companies would be more amenable to it as well.

 

[me123]

Yet, ironically unless you're a business type you're often judged to be unworthy of decent service by the FC staff and treated with contempt. The whole culture of VTEC 1st class stinks of contempt and stinginess.

I can't say that I've ever been treated with contempt by VTEC. I know their service is a bit "hit and miss" to say the least, but I've never experienced anything as strong as contempt. Indifference at the worst.

Personally, I would rather they cut inclusive service (because not everybody *wants* a meal) and reduced FC fares to the usual European multipler of 1.6 times the relevant Standard fare, for all Standard fare types except possibly Advances.

If they did that, I would probably travel First Class at all times on personal journeys, and companies would be more amenable to it as well.

I don't agree, I think it is important to me that a FC offering offers something above and beyond simply being a padded seat in an exclusive compartment. I would expect some sort of complimentary service - not necessarily a full meal, but at the very least "light refreshments". IMO, VTEC's FC offering is the right kind of thing for that route (although I'd agree that it's far from perfect in its execution).

 

[Iskra]

I can't say that I've ever been treated with contempt by VTEC. I know their service is a bit "hit and miss" to say the least, but I've never experienced anything as strong as contempt. Indifference at the worst.

I use 1st for different purposes and I feel that I get better service when dressed for business rather than leisure.

You probably get better crews though up your way as the Scottish/Geordie ones are highly regarded on here. London ones, not so much...

 

[Starmill]

That is still outrageous.

I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. It's double what I would even consider on a salary many times my Student Loan.

I can't say that I've ever been treated with contempt by VTEC. I know their service is a bit "hit and miss" to say the least, but I've never experienced anything as strong as contempt. Indifference at the worst.

Quite. Never attribute to malice and all that.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I would rather they cut inclusive service (because not everybody *wants* a meal) and reduced FC fares to the usual European multipler of 1.6 times the relevant Standard fare

The FC fare is roughly the usual 1.6 multiplier, though: the issue is the standard anytime fare is £281 and the standard off-peak fare is £211.10.

Yet, ironically unless you're a business type you're often judged to be unworthy of decent service by the FC staff and treated with contempt. The whole culture of VTEC 1st class stinks of contempt and stinginess.

That's never been my experience of first class, either on East Coast or VTEC. Some staff are ladling out the booze in buckets (more than once my partner's come off the London train clutching half a bottle of red the crew have forced upon her) and some treat every miniature bottle of gin as though it's coming straight out of their wages, sure, but generally I've only experienced good customer service with them. And when they have been tetchy it's been equal opportunities tetchiness.

I would agree that the northern crews tend to be better than the London crews, but the really arsey London crews have been like that with everyone, business suit or not.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There's not much better than getting off a train rather drunker than is sensible on complimentary booze

 

[ChiefPlanner]

0806 to Leeds off KX this am - superb service from all on board crew and a very decent full breakfast with unlimited toast , coffee and juice.

First class in all respects.

 

[ainsworth74]

Personally, I would rather they cut inclusive service (because not everybody *wants* a meal) and reduced FC fares to the usual European multipler of 1.6 times the relevant Standard fare, for all Standard fare types except possibly Advances.

If they did that, I would probably travel First Class at all times on personal journeys, and companies would be more amenable to it as well.

You could then, maybe, just being crazy, make catering paid for and maybe even open to both classes. Heck you could set aside a small portion of one first class carriage with table clothes and cutlery as a place to serve it...

 

[Kite159]

I came back from Edinburgh on Sunday afternoon in First Class, it was the EMT hire-in set so not the usual HST seating. Sandwiches served pretty much on departure at Edinburgh, ran out after Newcastle (train fully reserved) which displeased an older gentlemen who turned down the offer of sandwiches at Edinburgh.

4 drinks runs with another snack run after York. Can't complain as the time of booking FC was cheaper than standard class

 

[trainophile]

I came back from Edinburgh on Sunday afternoon in First Class, it was the EMT hire-in set so not the usual HST seating. Sandwiches served pretty much on departure at Edinburgh, ran out after Newcastle (train fully reserved) which displeased an older gentlemen who turned down the offer of sandwiches at Edinburgh.

4 drinks runs with another snack run after York. Can't complain as the time of booking FC was cheaper than standard class

Can't they get more sandwiches put on en route if it looks like they are running short? I'd have thought Newcastle and York would be able to oblige.

 

[Butts]

You could then, maybe, just being crazy, make catering paid for and maybe even open to both classes. Heck you could set aside a small portion of one first class carriage with table clothes and cutlery as a place to serve it...

You missed the smoking section and eliminating a thread nearly five years old

 

[Chrism20]

0806 to Leeds off KX this am - superb service from all on board crew and a very decent full breakfast with unlimited toast , coffee and juice.

First class in all respects.

The thought of unlimited toast almost makes me giddy

You could then, maybe, just being crazy, make catering paid for and maybe even open to both classes. Heck you could set aside a small portion of one first class carriage with table clothes and cutlery as a place to serve it...

They could even go the whole hog and call it pullman dining

I came back from Edinburgh on Sunday afternoon in First Class, it was the EMT hire-in set so not the usual HST seating. Sandwiches served pretty much on departure at Edinburgh, ran out after Newcastle (train fully reserved) which displeased an older gentlemen who turned down the offer of sandwiches at Edinburgh.

4 drinks runs with another snack run after York. Can't complain as the time of booking FC was cheaper than standard class

The EMT set is looking pretty grim. I've not travelled at the weekend on EC for ages, are the sandwiches still wrapped? I can understand not taking them on the plate during the week if you want them later but at the weekend you are as well taking them.

Can't they get more sandwiches put on en route if it looks like they are running short? I'd have thought Newcastle and York would be able to oblige.

Come a Sunday afternoon though is there likely to be anything left? Assuming they are still wrapped at the weekend it's not the same stuff as during the week so there will be less spares. Kite159 says the train was fully reserved though so if that is the case it's bad planning (Again) on VTECs part.

 

[Bungle73]

The FC fare is roughly the usual 1.6 multiplier, though: the issue is the standard anytime fare is £281 and the standard off-peak fare is £211.10.



That's never been my experience of first class, either on East Coast or VTEC. Some staff are ladling out the booze in buckets (more than once my partner's come off the London train clutching half a bottle of red the crew have forced upon her) and some treat every miniature bottle of gin as though it's coming straight out of their wages, sure, but generally I've only experienced good customer service with them. And when they have been tetchy it's been equal opportunities tetchiness.

I would agree that the northern crews tend to be better than the London crews, but the really arsey London crews have been like that with everyone, business suit or not.

The only staff member I've ever had a problem with was (and this was back in EC days) a woman in the KGX FC Lounge who seemed to take exception to me using the Lounge two days in a row using a couple of Day Passes. How dare I.......

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could then, maybe, just being crazy, make catering paid for and maybe even open to both classes. Heck you could set aside a small portion of one first class carriage with table clothes and cutlery as a place to serve it...

I was sort of thinking along those lines

Again, I've made long distance journeys in the past where I'd happily have paid through the nose to enjoy a nice meal on board.

It's funny how the railway is pushing towards inclusive food at the same time as airlines are pushing away from it. I'll perhaps make the point I made to a KLM stewardess ages ago as she handed me a pathetic little packet of nuts and a small cup of Coke. Ryanair catering has a wider choice and is better quality - and that works because (a) it has to be vaguely decent for people to pay through the nose for it, and (b) you can offer a wider choice if you don't have to carry that choice on board for everyone, but only a few of each thing.

 

[causton]

The EMT set is looking pretty grim. I've not travelled at the weekend on EC for ages, are the sandwiches still wrapped? I can understand not taking them on the plate during the week if you want them later but at the weekend you are as well taking them.

Yes they are still wrapped, same as usual. I got offered the pulled pork sandwich a good four or five times on my last KGX - EDB via Sunderland the other weekend, I only had room for three though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

They could even go the whole hog and call it pullman dining

I'd personally rather the DB-style approach of relatively simple and not *too* pricey food but served on proper crockery, with proper cutlery and a beer in a proper glass.

FWIW, I think what XC are trialling on a fairly limited basis is not at all unlike the DB approach, and this is no coincidence.

Edit: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/395184/bistro_area_menu.pdf

 

[Chrism20]

I'd personally rather the DB-style approach of relatively simple and not *too* pricey food but served on proper crockery, with proper cutlery and a beer in a proper glass.

FWIW, I think what XC are trialling on a fairly limited basis is not at all unlike the DB approach, and this is no coincidence.

Edit: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/395184/bistro_area_menu.pdf

The XC offering does look quite good. I keep meaning to try it and then remember after I have booked the tickets (on EC).

I'm off to Germany in September, will also have to have a look, thanks.

 

[Butts]

I think after nearly five years of this thread it is apparent that the real benficiaries of the switch from "restaurant" to "free" catering are freeloaders like me and others paying "rock bottom" prices for off peak 1st Class Travel on both East and West Coast Services.

On a related topic has anyone asked Virgin on "****ter" et al why East Coast 1st Class Lounges remain parsimonious in their offerings compared to West Coast ? I did raise this on The Lounge Thread but no replies.

This matter is also of interest to freeloaders like my goodself

 

[dave87016]

12:45pm from Leeds to Kings Cross on a hst yesterday, excellent first class service i opted for the Classic Steak & Spitfire Ale pie with mash and gravy it was very nice indeed , 3 cans of cider from the trolley throughout

 

[A-driver]

I think after nearly five years of this thread it is apparent that the real benficiaries of the switch from "restaurant" to "free" catering are freeloaders like me and others paying "rock bottom" prices for off peak 1st Class Travel on both East and West Coast Services.



On a related topic has anyone asked Virgin on "****ter" et al why East Coast 1st Class Lounges remain parsimonious in their offerings compared to West Coast ? I did raise this on The Lounge Thread but no replies.



This matter is also of interest to freeloaders like my goodself

Because they are seperate companies. East coast is only branded virgin but run by stagecoach. You'd be better comparing east coast to EMT than to west coast...

 

[Goldfish62]

The XC offering does look quite good. I keep meaning to try it and then remember after I have booked the tickets (on EC).

I'm off to Germany in September, will also have to have a look, thanks.

How pleasurable it is to wander up to the BordRestaurant when you like, take a seat and to be served Weißbier in a proper glass and reasonable grub whole watching the scenery pass by. Of course, we used to be able to do similar in the UK.

 

[Starmill]

Because they are seperate companies. East coast is only branded virgin but run by stagecoach. You'd be better comparing east coast to EMT than to west coast...

With the exception of Kings Cross, EMT have more modern and comfortable First Class Lounges than Virgin Trains East Coast, and a wider range of drinks and snacks.