London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Aberdonian]

Thanks for all the replies.
To Failed Unit: I've had three journeys in succession on the 0752 and 0952 out of Aberdeen where no hot food was available. No explanation is given and no offer of compensation even though you're paying it through the 1st class fare. I've written to them and got no further; no explanation and no compensation.
I guess I need to go to their CEO directly or to the Regulator??

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You'd have a hell of a time claiming that because you didn't get hot food you should get compensation.

 

[calc7]

If they come back with the reasoning "the food and drink is complimentary and discrentionary and not paid for in the price of the ticket" then ask them why it it formed around half of their 25 reasons to go First Class advert and that you will go to the ASA if they do not acknowledge this fact.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm sorry to say that your suggestion of seeking compensation and/or making a complaint to the Regulator are probably doomed.

The catering offered is, despite all the promotional materials and hype, is 'complimentary' and subject to availability. It is not offered in order to feed you, it is there in order to attract intending passengers to buy 1st Class tickets.

Perhaps you'll soon be joining the move which some regular but unhappy passengers in First have made, to booking their travel in Standard?

I am more sympathetic to calc7's suggestion that it might be time for another investigation by the ASA, but it won't achieve much. Perhaps the 'subject to availability' clause will be moved to some other not-very-prominent place.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks for all the replies.
To Failed Unit: I've had three journeys in succession on the 0752 and 0952 out of Aberdeen where no hot food was available. No explanation is given and no offer of compensation even though you're paying it through the 1st class fare. I've written to them and got no further; no explanation and no compensation.
I guess I need to go to their CEO directly or to the Regulator??

I suspect what happened here was the food was loaded at Edinburgh, then for whatever reason the temperature exceeded the minimum overnight and the food needed to be discarded. (or no one to cook it).

I know both have happened on the Inverness service, East coast said they would try and find a local supplier don't know how the got on. The Crew all rushing to the supermarket.

 

[jon0844]

I am more sympathetic to calc7's suggestion that it might be time for another investigation by the ASA, but it won't achieve much. Perhaps the 'subject to availability' clause will be moved to some other not-very-prominent place.

If they wish to say 'subject to availability' then that's absolutely fine - but then they must accept they can't advertise the service as something you will get, or include it in a list of 'reasons' to travel with them.

They can't have it both ways.

 

[Blindtraveler]

well im doing KGX - LDS on Wednesday and as iv not done a run to West Yorks since it started yet am quite looking forward to it to see if any different. Anyone happen to know if the 10:03 is booked HST or Malard?

 

[Failed Unit]

It should be a Hst - the one that did the Lincoln run in the morning. I also have the pleasure of a hst on Wednesday 0830 ex Edinburgh. Wonder if I will be hungry or have the EMT set.

 

[AlterEgo]

You'd have a hell of a time claiming that because you didn't get hot food you should get compensation.

Possibly a hell of a time from East Coast. Not from another TOC I know that has a complimentary offering.

A fair percentage of passengers (myself included) decide to pay the extra money for First Class based on the fact that they should get a full meal. East Coast make quite a thing about their 'wonderful' food offering and use it to entice passengers to upgrade.

As it is, I've now tried East Coast First Class three times since they changed their offering and have been disappointed each time. I won't be travelling again if I can avoid it.

To the OP - the 'Regulator' for the Railways is the Office of Rail Regulation, but their remit is mainly economic and safety-related. There is no customer service Regulator in the same way that the FSA and Ofcom regulate their respective industries. There is a rail consumer watchdog, Passenger Focus, but I would advise against contacting them with a case like this as it will be a waste of your time, I'm afraid. Passenger Focus act like an ombudsman, a mediating third party between TOC and complainant. They do not have the power to regulate the industry, levy fines against TOCs or compel a TOC to make any decision in your favour.

 

[stuartmoss]

I'm traveling York - Newcastle 1st class tomorrow, I think it leaves York around 12:50 - anyone know what the menu will be?

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps you just make a point of telling as many people as possible. Tweet about it, write a blog - and hope to embarrass EC into doing something.

These days, bad publicity is probably more likely to get things changed than hoping some regulator takes action.

This thread certainly highlights the best and worst, but I doubt many people will want to read what's rapidly approaching 200 pages!

 

[wellhouse]

...and there was no hot option available on the 1715 from Leeds to Kings Cross last Friday.

 

[northernchris]

I travelled from Leeds to London and back this weekend on some complimentary First Class tickets courtesy of Karen Boswell. Unfortunately I wasn't very impressed. On Saturday I travelled on the 0840 from Leeds and around 5 minutes before departure the guard announced they were no hot food or drinks to be served due to a boiler failure so the 'complimentary offer' consisted of a ham crossaint and 2 glasses of orange juice. The return journey was better; within 2 minutes of leaving London the trolley came round. What disappointed me however was that we were delayed be around 40 minutes yet they were only 2 runs of the trolley and on departure from Newark the crew had tidied everything up!

 

[Captain Chaos]

I got nothing! Apparently they had run out as they hadn't put enough on at the start of the journey. Leeds I think it started from. I did get a coffee and a can of Diet Coke though. The signs weren't really promising as when I boarded I distinctly noticed a lack of any menu's whatsoever.

What's the point in advertising complimentry's if your not going to bother putting on enough? They only came through once too. At Stevenage new cups were put out and that was it.

I shall not be going first again with EC. It's not worth it. If your going to advertise free food and drink to first class passengers then at least deliver it!

 

[Failed Unit]

What surprises me nearly 1 year on and it still sounds like they can't get it right is why? It is not as if they don't know the rough loadings of the trains by the reservations! They should also have an idea that most people want something. I don't recall virgin having these problems.

 

[Captain Chaos]

What's most annoying is that I could have gone with EMT cheaper and probably got more. The reason I went with EC is because of the promised complimetry's and wanted to give it a try. I know it looks selfish/greedy and what have you, but this is an ADVERTISED part of the service. I appreciate like anything in life things don't always go according to plan but this train was far from busy and there were no significant delays I am aware of that could result in being unable to load at the start of the journey etc. So why wasn't enough put on?

 

[jon0844]

Let's see how long ANY airline offering first class gets away with not serving food or drink and claiming it's 'subject to availability'.

I know it's different (to a degree) on a train as you have walk up tickets you don't get on an airline, but you can still be certain that if an airline couldn't provide a full service in FC, they'd almost certainly offer some sort of compensation whether asked or not.

 

[Captain Chaos]

And there's the problem. They've used the immortal Subject to availability. So in theory they could pull off all the food and drink forever and say 'subject to availability'.

It wasn't even as if they substituted for anything else. It was just 'got nothing left, sorry'.

 

[Failed Unit]

And there's the problem. They've used the immortal Subject to availability. So in theory they could pull off all the food and drink forever and say 'subject to availability'.

It wasn't even as if they substituted for anything else. It was just 'got nothing left, sorry'.

The cynic in me would think that they probably did have food left, but as you got on a Grantham they would rather not dirty the train again as they had done the washing up. Going north it is normal the the last run happens as soon as they leave Newcastle and then they start clearing up the train. If they had cooked you breakfast they would have only had 45 minutes to clean everything up again.

But sureley this would never happen

 

[DaveNewcastle]

And there's the problem. They've used the immortal Subject to availability. So in theory they could pull off all the food and drink forever and say 'subject to availability'.

It wasn't even as if they substituted for anything else. It was just 'got nothing left, sorry'.

You are getting close to the truth.
The Comapny isn't interested in you or me. It isn't interested in the costs of any catering 'offer' nor in the revenue from any catering 'offer'.

All that matters to the Company (and this should be abundantly clear from all EC's marketing) is improving the loading in their inherited 3 First Class coaches and the fares that they can apply to those coaches (over £200 each way between London and Edinburgh) generating both higher revenues and displacing some passengers from STD to 1ST.

The food offering is just a component in driving that shift from STD to 1ST. It doesn't make any difference to the theory if you or I are disillusioned and don't repeat the lovely but absent offering, because the franchise will be re-assigned. And that re-assignement will take into account our unhappy experiences but will re-describe them as statistical evidence of happy experiences.

Please don't underestimate the ability of EC to say one thing (very impressively) but do nothing to substantiate it.
Nothing. Or less.

It's subject to availability.

Anyone visiting me at home this evening is entitled to enjoy a thousand pounds in an envelope. Subject to availability.

 

[Aberdonian]

I have looked for reference to 'Availabilty' in their documentation and can only find reference to the availability of 'items'. I interpret that as something quite different to the whole service being unavailable (regularly).
Has anyone found a reference to general availability of the whole service? If not, does that mean that they have no 'get out clause'?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have now, at last, received an acceptance that I was given inaccurate info on Services North of Edinburgh ie that they were all provided by First.
In relation to catering they have now raised the availability issue so I await clarification as to where this appears in the T&C's.
They deny that it forms part of the ticket price. My recollection is that it was used as part of the justification for the price increase a year ago. I stand to be corrected.
I have no substantive response to my failure to get help quickly enough when I tried to contact them on the 19th March.
Since this is a'Directly Operated' railway I assume MPs and MSPs may have an interest in it?

 

[D1009]

Since this is a'Directly Operated' railway I assume MPs and MSPs may have an interest in it?

You could try Alex Salmond, he represents part of Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire.

 

[blackfive460]

The food offering is just a component in driving that shift from STD to 1ST.

Well done to them then if it has worked but, in my case, it's had the exact opposite effect. I'd only travel 1st if it was cheaper than or the same price as standard.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Yes that's what I thought as well Aberdonian. I'm pretty sure when they changed things around they stated that they were justifying the price increase for 1st class by including food into the price of the ticket. Therefore the price of the ticket IS covering the cost of the food isn't it?

It would be interesting to see East Coast's response to that if the article can be found. Because although they may state 'subject to availability' they have effectively stated that you are paying for the food through the price increase. So if people have paid for it (according to EC) how can they then say you haven't? Don't make sense.

 

[Blindtraveler]

well much as its fun to moan Il bet they wil only act when pax stop booking FC

 

[Captain Chaos]

well much as its fun to moan Il bet they wil only act when pax stop booking FC

True. But when you keep doing £25 promotions all the time then your loadings are always going to be good aren't they?

 

[Blindtraveler]

and theres why!

 

[142094]

Slight panic on the evening meal service from KGX - first there was no crumble left, now there is.

 

[EltonRoad]

Surely the key, though, is the fact they call it "complimentary" food and drink. Then when it's not available they don't have to worry or pay compensation because it would have been given out in addition to what you paid for anyway. By using this wording they are covering themselves against non-availability, as well as making you think it's a fantastic deal etc.

 

[jon0844]

Whatever wording they use, their offering hasn't enticed me to travel FC one single time since they introduced the new service. It's almost a year now.

If they think that offering loads of £25 fares, or cheap advance tickets, is the way to fill FC then good for them.