London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[calc7]

Surely the key, though, is the fact they call it "complimentary" food and drink. Then when it's not available they don't have to worry or pay compensation because it would have been given out in addition to what you paid for anyway. By using this wording they are covering themselves against non-availability, as well as making you think it's a fantastic deal etc.

Yes, that is fine. But when it forms several of their "25 reasons to go First Class" then surely it's misleading at best and could be investigated by the ASA?

 

[MarkyMarkD]

It depends where they are advertising "25 reasons". If it's on their own website, the ASA have no jurisdiction and won't do anything. If it's elsewhere, then they will likely take action but only if the "subject to availability" isn't clearly stated.

 

[wintonian]

It depends where they are advertising "25 reasons". If it's on their own website, the ASA have no jurisdiction and won't do anything. If it's elsewhere, then they will likely take action but only if the "subject to availability" isn't clearly stated.

They do now have jurisdiction for websites, and have do for a year now.

The ASA is the UK's independent regulator of advertising across all media, now including marketing on websites. We work to ensure ads are legal, decent, honest and truthful by applying the Advertising Code

 

[Blindtraveler]

wel in that case it would appear unless somebody can show otherwise that there in bother should somebody take it to them.

In other news im wating at KGX (not impressed by the way, too dam cold) for my train to LDS and looking forward to a Yorkshire Tea and a Bacon Butty
subject to availabilitty ofcourse

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There was no availability of hot food on yesterday's southbound 18:30 from Edinburgh (tho the 'apology' suggested that there might be once it was south of Newcastle, which is where I left the train).
To make some allowance, services were seriously disrupted yesterday.

 

[tgsh2011]

Airlines serving food in Economy, Business, or First describe their food and drink offerings as "complimentary". If they did not supply the said items I am sure they would not get away with it.

The fact is "complimentary" or otherwise it is an advertised and integral part of the overall 1st Class service being offered by East Coast. Passengers have a reasonable expectation that the service will be available save for a sudden and unsual event.

In the normal course of business the non availability of the entire offer should trigger recompense of some sort. However this is a TOC and normal rules don't seem to apply to them.

 

[ainsworth74]

Travelled on the 08.24 from Darlo to Kings Cross this morning, food orders taken after York and had the Full English (their name not mine as I don't really consider it to be a full English) which was tasty enough, one run from the food trolley as we were non-stop from York so only one piece of toast . Had to have something else to eat at Guildford at around 12 with a baguette from Upper Crust as the breakfast just isn't as filling as it was once upon a time (needs to add beans and hash brown/muffin at least). Still it's complementary so can't complain now can we :roll:

I'll be on the 18.30 from the Cross so we'll see what the evening meal is like in a few hours.

 

[142094]

Evening meal yesterday was salmon or vegetable shepherd's pie, with carrot batons, leeks and potatoes. I went for the latter as I'm not a fan of fish, and the protion was suprisingly quite big (so much so I didn't finish it all). Dessert was rhubarb and ginger crumble with custard.

Yesterday was also the first time I've been asked for ID to get the free alcoholic drinks.

 

[calc7]

Evening meal yesterday was salmon or vegetable shepherd's pie, with carrot batons, leeks and potatoes. I went for the latter as I'm not a fan of fish, and the protion was suprisingly quite big (so much so I didn't finish it all). Dessert was rhubarb and ginger crumble with custard.

Yesterday was also the first time I've been asked for ID to get the free alcoholic drinks.

That food sounds really nice actually!

The ID incident is amusing. When I was 18 (not that long ago) I was asked if I was 18, but never to provide ID. Weekdays now I tend to be in a suit so clearly look the part.

 

[phil8715]

Perhaps you just make a point of telling as many people as possible. Tweet about it, write a blog - and hope to embarrass EC into doing something.

These days, bad publicity is probably more likely to get things changed than hoping some regulator takes action.

This thread certainly highlights the best and worst, but I doubt many people will want to read what's rapidly approaching 200 pages!

I doubt anybody from EC will actually come onto this forum and read this thread. Oh sorry they will because EC is stated owned and the state will be monitoring websites, emails, Twitter Feeds, Facebook postings, blogs and text messages. So they should see it.

I think EC should be reported to the ASA for false advertising. I doubt the rail regulator will do anything because they probably live the pockets of the tocs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[jon0844]

I expect someone from EC / DOR has been on here and read the thread, or parts of it, or at least been made aware of it.

Now they could have chosen to ignore it, as comments from a bunch of saddos with nothing better to do than moan, which they're entitled to do. It would be rather silly, as I think the mix of opinions shows that they a) CAN provide a good service and b) most complaints are about when they fail to do so, rather than people making vindictive attacks on the company for no good reason.

While Joe Public might have one bad experience and never use FC (or EC) again, at least people on here seem to want to get things improved and continue to use the trains.

 

[ainsworth74]

Evening meal yesterday was salmon or vegetable shepherd's pie, with carrot batons, leeks and potatoes. I went for the latter as I'm not a fan of fish, and the protion was suprisingly quite big (so much so I didn't finish it all).

Indeed it is, I've gone for the salmon and judging by the crew shouting out 'who's ordered salmon!?' at the other end of the carriage mine should be here shortly

 

[wintonian]

Indeed it is, I've gone for the salmon and judging by the crew shouting out 'who's ordered salmon!?' at the other end of the carriage mine should be here shortly

Enjoy, I found it rather plesent.

 

[ainsworth74]

Enjoy, I found it rather plesent.

Salmon delivered and devoured. Very nice much better than the last time I had it on EC (when I was given a hunk of salmon, new potatoes and carrots) a nice perfectly cooked piece of salmon, carrots cooked in some I think orange tasting sauce, along with potatoes in a sweet sauce and some sort of green stuff. All very tasty and a nice sized portion. No complaints from me!

You see EC when you deliver like you have today (both this morning and evening ) everything is fine and personally I think you beat out VT. But too many times you fail to deliver what is advertised and people end up hungry!

 

[calc7]

Salmon delivered and devoured. Very nice much better than the last time I had it on EC (when I was given a hunk of salmon, new potatoes and carrots) a nice perfectly cooked piece of salmon, carrots cooked in some I think orange tasting sauce, along with potatoes in a sweet sauce and some sort of green stuff. All very tasty and a nice sized portion. No complaints from me!

You see EC when you deliver like you have today (both this morning and evening ) everything is fine and personally I think you beat out VT. But too many times you fail to deliver what is advertised and people end up hungry!

Or thirsty! ONE cold drink between Kings Cross and York?!

But I do agree with you, if EC offered that sort of evening meal every time, the food at least would beat Virgin's offering.

 

[wintonian]

Salmon delivered and devoured. Very nice much better than the last time I had it on EC (when I was given a hunk of salmon, new potatoes and carrots) a nice perfectly cooked piece of salmon, carrots cooked in some I think orange tasting sauce, along with potatoes in a sweet sauce and some sort of green stuff. All very tasty and a nice sized portion. No complaints from me!

Agreed and the green stuff I had were called leeks.

 

[ainsworth74]

Agreed and the green stuff I had were called leeks.

Well I thought it was leek but I like to follow the mantra of "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." so decided to go for a rather more vague discription

Or thirsty! ONE cold drink between Kings Cross and York?!

That would be my only complaint so far, we've had plenty of tea and coffee runs but only two alcoholic drink runs (currently just north of Newark) I'm sure last time I was on Virgin it was a bit more frequent (though not massively).

 

[wintonian]

That would be my only complaint so far, we've had plenty of tea and coffee runs but only two alcoholic drink runs (currently just north of Newark) I'm sure last time I was on Virgin it was a bit more frequent (though not massively).

I had 4 or 5 visits from the drinks trolly on on a Kings Cross to York 17:00 non-stop.

 

[Butts]

0800 Edinburgh to Newcastle......

Anyone expecting me to moan about one slice of toast .....it was zero today the toaster was "only toasting on one side" so a luke warm croissant had to suffice.

Since my last EC Breakfast it seems to have shrunk- a sausage, two bit's of bacon the size of a matchbox, a tablespoon of watery scrambled egg, 4 tinned microscopic mushrooms and a floppy thing purporting to be a potato scone. Honestly you could have slapped the lot in a burger bap and still had plenty of room.

Make no mistake this is by no stretch of the imagination a premium product - A seaside B&B would be ashamed to serve it up. Try it in " four in a train" and you'd lose

No Orange juice either - only apple !!

Naturally this is all tempered by the fact I only paid £13 for my ticket and got a free Independent.

Return 1853 Newcastle to Edinburgh.

Had a Baked Spud with Chicken Tikka , Coffee, Cider and a bag of Crisps. Not to bad but nothing a Tesco Cafe couldn't conjure up.

There was no run after Berwick which their should have been according to the timetable (suspect crew were changing at Edinburgh as it was going on to Aberdeen.)

For £13 Fine - for any thing over £20 a disgrace :roll:

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . a tablespoon of watery scrambled egg, 4 tinned microscopic mushrooms and a floppy thing purporting to be a potato scone . . . .

I'll be happy to accept that your displeasure might lead to just a little exaggeration: maybe the tablespoonful of scrambled egg was just something less than 2 tablespoonfuls. But I have to agree that it is a disgusting processed and re-cooked deceipt of an egg. Foul rather than fowl.
And it doesn't constitute a breakfast.
Is that a fact, or does really merit a prolonged debate?
I buy a breakfast before boarding than attempt to eat one of them. In fact, my EC travel companion earlier this week experienced quite severe low body pains within an hour of eating one of those EC FC eggy breakfasts. Perhaps there was a causal connection?
Perhaps it was just a co-incidence - we'll need to read the GP's assesment of the private medical interview.

Naturally this is all tempered by the fact I only paid £13 for my ticket and got a free Independent.

Okay, you are right. So your complaint is diminished in proprtion to your ticket price. Was the passenger nearby who had paid £200 or more for the same crap/meal/"complimentary offer" going to withdraw their expression of their dissatisfaction because of some other irrelevant factor? No. I've been tempted not to accept an 'offering' because I hadn't paid so much - but why?
Either its part of the Contract or its not.
How simple can it get?
When it is a "Complimenatary Offer", what has your ticket price got to do with anything?
It hasn't.
And it's East Coast Main Line Limited who have tried to make this separation. Its a flawed concept.
This whole concept of a "complimentary offer" to replace the widely accepted concept of a paid-for "restaurant Car" was entirely their own marketing creation. Hoping, perversely, to obliteriate a century's assets and heritage of an admiring, appreciative, established, loyal, and wealthy customer base, delivering a per-existing market - a great asset value, who were happy to pay well for good Restaurant service.
But, somehow, they chose to replace it with an indifferent, and formulaic dispensation of pre-packed sterilised and processed & sealed crap with something to attract Standard Class passengers into First and ignore the loyalty, appreciative (etc . . . ) existing First Class payers.
The First Class Offering which was always available and paid for is repaced by something that is free and is part of the Contract. But it is subject to availability (it is not subject to your payment) and is not available in about 60% of my journeys in the past 10 months since this excrutiating lawyers idea of rail catering has been in force.

 

[ainsworth74]

I had 4 or 5 visits from the drinks trolly on on a Kings Cross to York 17:00 non-stop.

Only two alcohol runs as far as Darlo (tea and coffee however in abundance) so in terms of food provision I can't complain but in terms of drinks pretty poor.

 

[wintonian]

And it re-constituted a breakfast.

Is that what you ment to say.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only two alcohol runs as far as Darlo (tea and coffee however in abundance) so in terms of food provision I can't complain but in terms of drinks pretty poor.

Have to admit when I did the Haymarket - Kings Cross run there was only 2 or possibly 3 runs of the drinks trolly.

 

[calc7]

I have overheard crew on an Edinburgh to London fast say "we only do 3 drinks runs on these services, remember". This tallies in with the runs after Edinburgh, Newcastle and York. If I'm being honest, if they are going to be formulaic a better policy would be a trolley run every 45 minutes, every hour at the most.
One drink for 1 1/2hrs between EDB and NCL is very stingy, same for the 1h50 between York and London. Only the Newcastle to York section is reasonable and even then I've nearly been caught out as the need to nurse my drink has been misjudged!
It really takes the biscuit. Or does it? You'd be lucky to get some of those also.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Do you mean alcohol, or drinks of any variety? 3 runs of hot drinks is not enough by a long chalk!

 

[wintonian]

I have overheard crew on an Edinburgh to London fast say "we only do 3 drinks runs on these services, remember". This tallies in with the runs after Edinburgh, Newcastle and York.

Do you mean alcohol, or drinks of any variety? 3 runs of hot drinks is not enough by a long chalk!

From memory that does seem about right fror my alcohol runs from Haymarket, and I think some of them like to get done and cleared as soon after York as they can.

 

[calc7]

Do you mean alcohol, or drinks of any variety? 3 runs of hot drinks is not enough by a long chalk!

3 runs of the cold drinks trolley. Bearing in mind that some crews are very fastidious and you can't even have a juice/soda and a long alcoholic drink like wine or beer. The fact they tell their top customers this boggles the mind.

Tea and coffee is more frequent - much appreciated on the daytime services but in the late evening ones where you just want a few whisky and cokes before you saunter off home it's a poor token level of service.

 

[Butts]

I'll be happy to accept that your displeasure might lead to just a little exaggeration: maybe the tablespoonful of scrambled egg was just something less than 2 tablespoonfuls. But I have to agree that it is a disgusting processed and re-cooked deceipt of an egg. Foul rather than fowl.
And it doesn't constitute a breakfast.
Is that a fact, or does really merit a prolonged debate?
I buy a breakfast before boarding than attempt to eat one of them. In fact, my EC travel companion earlier this week experienced quite severe low body pains within an hour of eating one of those EC FC eggy breakfasts. Perhaps there was a causal connection?
Perhaps it was just a co-incidence - we'll need to read the GP's assesment of the private medical interview.

Okay, you are right. So your complaint is diminished in proprtion to your ticket price. Was the passenger nearby who had paid £200 or more for the same crap/meal/"complimentary offer" going to withdraw their expression of their dissatisfaction because of some other irrelevant factor? No. I've been tempted not to accept an 'offering' because I hadn't paid so much - but why?
Either its part of the Contract or its not.
How simple can it get?
When it is a "Complimenatary Offer", what has your ticket price got to do with anything?
It hasn't.
And it's East Coast Main Line Limited who have tried to make this separation. Its a flawed concept.
This whole concept of a "complimentary offer" to replace the widely accepted concept of a paid-for "restaurant Car" was entirely their own marketing creation. Hoping, perversely, to obliteriate a century's assets and heritage of an admiring, appreciative, established, loyal, and wealthy customer base, delivering a per-existing market - a great asset value, who were happy to pay well for good Restaurant service.
But, somehow, they chose to replace it with an indifferent, and formulaic dispensation of pre-packed sterilised and processed & sealed crap with something to attract Standard Class passengers into First and ignore the loyalty, appreciative (etc . . . ) existing First Class payers.
The First Class Offering which was always available and paid for is repaced by something that is free and is part of the Contract. But it is subject to availability (it is not subject to your payment) and is not available in about 60% of my journeys in the past 10 months since this excrutiating lawyers idea of rail catering has been in force.

I'd like to try a service with a "travelling chef" but it's a bit far to go for me

I would rather cough for a decent scran - I've seen pictures of the current product, would be interesting if someone could line up a before and after montage of the brekkie - ie the old paid for one.

With regard to the drinks runs, they should be at least one an hour

 

[Blindtraveler]

agree there are stil many problems. However my trip yesturday was not one plagued by them. Tea and coffee withing 5 mins of KGX and hot food orders taken on the back of this. Cacon butty fresh and tasty, suplimented by a Danish and OJ plus more tea. Admittedly my traveling companion made a few choice comments about his earlier experience in the week on Virgin, which may have helped.

 

[calc7]

agree there are stil many problems. However my trip yesturday was not one plagued by them. Tea and coffee withing 5 mins of KGX and hot food orders taken on the back of this. Cacon butty fresh and tasty, suplimented by a Danish and OJ plus more tea. Admittedly my traveling companion made a few choice comments about his earlier experience in the week on Virgin, which may have helped.

Good one!
When travelling in 1st on Virgin I am always sure to compliment the good service and often mention that it is far better than on East Coast.

 

[cookiescrumble]

I was really looking forward to travelling first class with East Coast until I read through this thread :cry:.