London Buses Discussion

[Deerfold]

I've always thought that the choice of stop where Countdown was installed was a bit random. In my area, only one stop has Countdown, when it would be much more useful for other stops in the area, which have more routes passing through them

Hi. I was one of the people who drew up the list of stops to have Countdown II. There were a lot of competing criteria (and some stops which everyone would want to have Countdown physically can't for reasons that aren't always obvious) but we'd got a list including removing from stops which had made sense when Countdown I was installed but no longer did and a handful where it wasn't clear why they'd ever got a sign (all boroughs were to see an increase in the number of signs). Then we received an edict from the Mayor that every stop with a Countdown sign was to keep it. He refused to speak to the head of our department about that.

I spent a fortnight recalculating which stops would get Countdown II, knowing that the list I was producing was worse than the previous one.

The 2 stops which at the time (and possibly still) had the largest number of buses potentially calling did not have power and could not easily have power. 2 of the 10 busiest stops could not have them as they had narrow pavements, narrow bus shelters and assessors were concerned that people would back out into the road to see the sign clearly. One Countdown I sign was removed as it was being used by a local drug dealer to store his wares (causing intermittent faults every time the sign was opened with full power on).

 

[Busaholic]

If you stand slightly back from the kerb, then it's impossible for a moped rider to steal from you

And that sort of crime isn't representative of ALL of London

Have you not seen all the YouTube videos showing moped etc riders driving along the pavement to do what you say is impossible?! There's NOWHERE in London where that couldn't happen, and hasn't happened, with the probable exception of the areas around Buck House, Parliament, embassy land and one or two similar, where you might get shot by police.

 

[Edsmith]

Have you not seen all the YouTube videos showing moped etc riders driving along the pavement to do what you say is impossible?! There's NOWHERE in London where that couldn't happen, and hasn't happened, with the probable exception of the areas around Buck House, Parliament, embassy land and one or two similar, where you might get shot by police.

I don't think anyone is saying it couldn't happen but a bit of perspective is needed.

I haven't seen any such YouTube videos although I haven't been looking for them.

 

[GusB]

The issue of mobile phones being stolen is off-topic for this thread. Anyone who wishes to continue can do so in a separate thread in General Discussion. Thanks

 

[Mikey C]

Hi. I was one of the people who drew up the list of stops to have Countdown II. There were a lot of competing criteria (and some stops which everyone would want to have Countdown physically can't for reasons that aren't always obvious) but we'd got a list including removing from stops which had made sense when Countdown I was installed but no longer did and a handful where it wasn't clear why they'd ever got a sign (all boroughs were to see an increase in the number of signs). Then we received an edict from the Mayor that every stop with a Countdown sign was to keep it. He refused to speak to the head of our department about that.

I spent a fortnight recalculating which stops would get Countdown II, knowing that the list I was producing was worse than the previous one.

The 2 stops which at the time (and possibly still) had the largest number of buses potentially calling did not have power and could not easily have power. 2 of the 10 busiest stops could not have them as they had narrow pavements, narrow bus shelters and assessors were concerned that people would back out into the road to see the sign clearly. One Countdown I sign was removed as it was being used by a local drug dealer to store his wares (causing intermittent faults every time the sign was opened with full power on).

Interesting thanks

For example I took a bus tonight from Orchard Street / Selfridges (Stop BA) just off Oxford Street which doesn't have Countdown, despite being a busy stop serving several routes, and one used by lots of shoppers. A relatively new stop (after Baker Street went 2 way), and the sort of flagship stop you'd have expected Countdown to be installed at, especially as it has relatively few cars and the buses stop away from the main carriageway

 

[Deerfold]

Interesting thanks

For example I took a bus tonight from Orchard Street / Selfridges (Stop BA) just off Oxford Street which doesn't have Countdown, despite being a busy stop serving several routes, and one used by lots of shoppers. A relatively new stop (after Baker Street went 2 way), and the sort of flagship stop you'd have expected Countdown to be installed at, especially as it has relatively few cars and the buses stop away from the main carriageway

I don't think there's any budget for any new stops to get Countdown (and wasn't pre-Covid).

When I was last involved the budget required to install a sign and maintain it for ten years was £10,000.

There's also the fact that if left to usage alone, something like 60% of signs would be in Westminster and the City.

 

[Mikey C]

I don't think there's any budget for any new stops to get Countdown (and wasn't pre-Covid).

When I was last involved the budget required to install a sign and maintain it for ten years was £10,000.

There's also the fact that if left to usage alone, something like 60% of signs would be in Westminster and the City.

TfL/Westminster Council had the budget (pre Covid) for the whole £15m Baker Street/Gloucester Place 2 way scheme (a scheme which made bus journeys slower incidentally), so the cost of Countdown would have been tiny in relation...

 

[bakerstreet]

Re LED Destination displays

I’ve noticed that I’m near a few routes which have the latest LED displays.

On the front, it’s large route number and destination; on the side, a smaller version of the same; on the rear, just route number.

I was very impressed when they first arrived around 3-6 weeks ago, but there seems to be an issue with these that either

- the blind stops working completely and shows a blank display
- the LEDs are dimmed to what looks like ten per cent of brightness
- the displays begin to pixelate
- part of the display works, the rest is blank.

This is not a good look but also very disappointing because these blinds appeared to be the best solution yet in London.

I’m aware that so far most of the London bus network does not have these yet but has anyone else noticed this?

(For info, the buses I see are RATP from a couple of north west /south west London garages.)

 

[duncombec]

I was very impressed when they first arrived around 3-6 weeks ago, but there seems to be an issue with these that either

- the blind stops working completely and shows a blank display
- the LEDs are dimmed to what looks like ten per cent of brightness
- the displays begin to pixelate
- part of the display works, the rest is blank.

Do you mean when you look at them with the naked eye, or when taking photographs?

 

[bakerstreet]

Do you mean when you look at them with the naked eye, or when taking photographs?

Naked eye

 

[Snow1964]

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, is visiting Wrightbus at Ballymena and has been revealed the 30 Wrightbus electroliners for Abellio route 111 will enter service in October. The press release suggests they will be high spec version (as recently launched on route 63)

Abellio take over 111 from RATP in April and 111 is is temporarily using LTs (new route masters) which came from cuts on routes 9, 27, 55 and temporary use of routes 148 LTs which is using 49s new electric buses (which can’t be used on 49 until a traffic island in Sydney Place / Fulham Road is altered, scheduled for 11-23rd March). The route was converted to LTs when RATP gained routes in Autumn 2021 to release buses due to charger installation delays which meant electric buses couldn’t be used when contracts started.

Mayor visits Northern Ireland bus factory, highlights TfL funding risk

Mayor highlights risk to jobs across the country if TfL isn’t properly funded with visit to Northern Ireland bus factory

www.london.gov.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Re LED Destination displays

I’ve noticed that I’m near a few routes which have the latest LED displays.

On the front, it’s large route number and destination; on the side, a smaller version of the same; on the rear, just route number.

I was very impressed when they first arrived around 3-6 weeks ago, but there seems to be an issue with these that either

- the blind stops working completely and shows a blank display
- the LEDs are dimmed to what looks like ten per cent of brightness
- the displays begin to pixelate
- part of the display works, the rest is blank.

This is not a good look but also very disappointing because these blinds appeared to be the best solution yet in London.

I’m aware that so far most of the London bus network does not have these yet but has anyone else noticed this?

(For info, the buses I see are RATP from a couple of north west /south west London garages.)

It does seem generally that white LEDs are less reliable than yellow ones. I don't see a problem with using yellow ones for destinations - they're still very clear. I don't know why this is, but you see the effects of it all over the place, e.g. Euston main departure board when new used to have "calling at" in white and these lasted only a couple of months before partly failing and being swapped for yellow.

The rear really needs number and destination, it's a bit cheap just putting the number there. In the days of manual blinds having the number only on the rear and e.g. "73 via Oxford St" on the side one meant you only had to wind the front one at each end, but there's no excuse now.

 

[bakerstreet]

It does seem generally that white LEDs are less reliable than yellow ones. I don't see a problem with using yellow ones for destinations - they're still very clear.

The rear really needs number and destination, it's a bit cheap just putting the number there. In the days of manual blinds having the number only on the rear and e.g. "73 via Oxford St" on the side one meant you only had to wind the front one at each end, but there's no excuse now.

I think the spec now is for London buses to have number and destination on the rear (see Route 63, I think) but the ones arriving near me were ordered a little earlier I believe.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, is visiting Wrightbus at Ballymena and has been revealed the 30 Wrightbus electroliners for Abellio route 111 will enter service in October.

Abellio take over 111 from RATP in April and 111 is is temporarily using LTs (new route masters) which came from cuts on routes 9, 27, 55 and temporary use of routes 148 LTs which is using 49s new electric buses (which can’t be used on 49 until a traffic island in Sydney Place / Fulham Road is altered, scheduled for 11-23rd March)

Mayor visits Northern Ireland bus factory, highlights TfL funding risk

Mayor highlights risk to jobs across the country if TfL isn’t properly funded with visit to Northern Ireland bus factory

www.london.gov.uk

Blimey, is the 111 the first New Routemaster route to be permanently converted from them?

Other than maybe the 263 and the 279, both of which are almost dead straight routes down main roads, I'm struggling to think of any other routes which could accommodate them (and the 263 is probably highly unlikely to convert as it seems Metroline are not exactly enthusiastic users of them). If the rumours that Tfl are not funding a mid-life refurbishment turn out to be true, I wonder if we may be about to see the first squadron withdrawals of LTs (or the first since 1949, to keep the pedants happy! )

It's also quite a shocker that RATP have lost the 111; it's been Hounslow garage's flagship for many, many years. It's like Metroline losing the 16 from Cricklewood, or Stagecoach the 53 from Plumstead.

 

[Edsmith]

Blimey, is the 111 the first New Routemaster route to be permanently converted from them?

Other than maybe the 263 and the 279, both of which are almost dead straight routes down main roads, I'm struggling to think of any other routes which could accommodate them (and the 263 is probably highly unlikely to convert as it seems Metroline are not exactly enthusiastic users of them). If the rumours that Tfl are not funding a mid-life refurbishment turn out to be true, I wonder if we may be about to see the first squadron withdrawals of LTs (or the first since 1949, to keep the pedants happy! )

It's also quite a shocker that RATP have lost the 111; it's been Hounslow garage's flagship for many, many years. It's like Metroline losing the 16 from Cricklewood, or Stagecoach the 53 from Plumstead.

LT's were only intended to be temporary on the 111 although Abellio might use them until the new electric buses arrive. The 88 lost LT's when it swapped allocations with the 87 because of a route change and more recently the 91 lost them because of problems at the Crouch End terminus.

 

[Busoccultation]

Blimey, is the 111 the first New Routemaster route to be permanently converted from them?

Other than maybe the 263 and the 279, both of which are almost dead straight routes down main roads, I'm struggling to think of any other routes which could accommodate them (and the 263 is probably highly unlikely to convert as it seems Metroline are not exactly enthusiastic users of them). If the rumours that Tfl are not funding a mid-life refurbishment turn out to be true, I wonder if we may be about to see the first squadron withdrawals of LTs (or the first since 1949, to keep the pedants happy! )

It's also quite a shocker that RATP have lost the 111; it's been Hounslow garage's flagship for many, many years. It's like Metroline losing the 16 from Cricklewood, or Stagecoach the 53 from Plumstead.

Both the 88 & 91 was LT operated and now uses standard hybrids instead, the 88 was swapped with the 87 in 2019 when the 88 was extended to Parliament Hill Fields to replace the withdrawn C2 and the 91 was swapped with the 17 & 332 last year after there were various incidents with the roundabout in Crouch End where the 91 turns around.

TfL has started refurbishing the LT's with a different seat moquette design to what the current LT moquette, with a number of early examples such as LT15, LT20, LT25, LT26, LT87 & LT96 are done so far.

 

[chopperman21]

The first 22-reg London bus has entered service on the Route W15. SEe167 was the last of the batch and just missed out on the 71 mark, like the rest of the batch.

 

[busesrusuk]

It does seem generally that white LEDs are less reliable than yellow ones. I don't see a problem with using yellow ones for destinations - they're still very clear. I don't know why this is, but you see the effects of it all over the place, e.g. Euston main departure board when new used to have "calling at" in white and these lasted only a couple of months before partly failing and being swapped for yellow.

The rear really needs number and destination, it's a bit cheap just putting the number there. In the days of manual blinds having the number only on the rear and e.g. "73 via Oxford St" on the side one meant you only had to wind the front one at each end, but there's no excuse now.

I wonder if the new buses for London United have some sort of sensor on the electronic blinds to "dim/brighten" them dependent on the ambient light levels. Some appear quite bright whilst others are quite grey looking. here are are a couple pics taken whish shows them with different brightness levels.

London Utd BCE47083 Feb22

Petersham Road, Feb 2022

www.flickr.com

London Utd BE37042 Feb22

Ham, Feb 2022

www.flickr.com

London Utd BCE47039 Sep21

Westminster Bridge, Sep 2021

www.flickr.com

From a photographer's perspective at least these blinds come out in pictures(!)

 

[Simon75]

Can new buses still have roller blinds ?

 

[galwhv69]

Can new buses still have roller blinds ?

Believe that they can still be ordered with powerblinds, the 319's EA buses being an example

 

[Snow1964]

Believe that they can still be ordered with powerblinds, the 319's EA buses being an example

The problem is getting hold of new power blind units (are they still made, or do they come from withdrawn buses), even the blinds are only made by McKenna nowadays which is potentially high risk for delays, or rising costs

 

[Busaholic]

It's also quite a shocker that RATP have lost the 111; it's been Hounslow garage's flagship for many, many years. It's like Metroline losing the 16 from Cricklewood, or Stagecoach the 53 from Plumstead.

16 yes. 53 no. New Cross worked the 53 on its own for a period into the 1980s: perhaps a better analogy might be the 80, worked by Sutton from day one in 1934. Not only that, never worked by another garage, even on Christmas Day! Unique in London.

 

[galwhv69]

The problem is getting hold of new power blind units (are they still made, or do they come from withdrawn buses), even the blinds are only made by McKenna nowadays which is potentially high risk for delays, or rising costs

McKenna still advertise them on their site, so presumably available. McKenna produce most of them nowadays, but a few regional operators have gone for others such as Blinds For Buses or PWC Replica Blinds

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Is anybody able to enlighten me on the current situation regarding Kensal Rise Station please?

The TfL website says routes 28 and 452 are being cut short to Great Western Road and Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys respectively until 30 August due to "urban realm works". Yet route 52, which takes the same routing between Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys and Kensal Rise Station is apparently unaffected?

Rather irritating as changing from the 302 onto the 28 at Kensal Rise is a connection I make quite a bit...

 

[MotCO]

Is anybody able to enlighten me on the current situation regarding Kensal Rise Station please?

The TfL website says routes 28 and 452 are being cut short to Great Western Road and Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys respectively until 30 August due to "urban realm works". Yet route 52, which takes the same routing between Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys and Kensal Rise Station is apparently unaffected?

Rather irritating as changing from the 302 onto the 28 at Kensal Rise is a connection I make quite a bit...

Is it a rouse to shorten a route without going out to consultation?

 

[Busaholic]

Is anybody able to enlighten me on the current situation regarding Kensal Rise Station please?

The TfL website says routes 28 and 452 are being cut short to Great Western Road and Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys respectively until 30 August due to "urban realm works". Yet route 52, which takes the same routing between Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys and Kensal Rise Station is apparently unaffected?

Rather irritating as changing from the 302 onto the 28 at Kensal Rise is a connection I make quite a bit...

Sounds like the terminal at Kensal Rise Station is affected, which wouldn't impact the 52?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Sounds like the terminal at Kensal Rise Station is affected, which wouldn't impact the 52?

I did think of that, but it appears the 302, which also terminates at Kensal Rise, is running absolutely fine - unless I'm missing something here?

 

[WideRanger]

Without going to physically have a look, I would assume the following:

• The way this makes most sense would be if access to the stops/stands on station terrace are out of use
• 52 can still operate past Kensal Rise station, because it is not terminating there, in which case, it would miss the stop on Station Terrace and (presumably) stop at a temporary stop on the main road.
• 28 and 452 terminate at Kensal rise from the south. So the only way they could continue to call there would be if they could continue up the main road north, find a stand and turn around somewhere. The isn't a really obvious place to do that North of the station unless you travel all the way up to Harlesden.
• 302 terminates at Kensal Rise from the North. I can only assume that this can continue to operate to and from Kensal Rise, because they have found a suitable stand and turn around point reasonably close to the south of Kensal Rise Station.

 

[Mawkie]

Did anyone manage to wade through the 94 pages of TfL's Bus Action Plan (released yesterday)?

I skipped through, but one point of note was a trial of express, limited stop, routes to increase bus speeds in the capital. It specifically mentions Old Kent Road.

As far as I remember there used to be/could still be an X68 and a 607 - would they be able to provide the evidence of faster journey times?

TfL sets out bold vision for buses in the capital

TfL sets out bold vision for buses in the capital

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Surreytraveller]

Did anyone manage to wade through the 94 pages of TfL's Bus Action Plan (released yesterday)?

I skipped through, but one point of note was a trial of express, limited stop, routes to increase bus speeds in the capital. It specifically mentions Old Kent Road.

As far as I remember there used to be/could still be an X68 and a 607 - would they be able to provide the evidence of faster journey times?

TfL sets out bold vision for buses in the capital

TfL sets out bold vision for buses in the capital

tfl.gov.uk

You've also got the X26. Not sure if the Northern Line 733 replacement is limited stop or not?