LNER 225 Shortening/Overnight Testing

[43 302]

My understanding is that this is inaccurate and there is still one 225 diagram per day going to Newcastle.

Time will tell. The set being used should have done the 14.40 Harrogate and return, meanwhile the Mk4 set will go onto Ferme Park.

 

[MCR247]

Time will tell. The set being used should have done the 14.40 Harrogate and return, meanwhile the Mk4 set will go onto Ferme Park.

And another Azuma sourced for the Harrogate?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Because I want to have a trip to Newcastle and they are a lot more comfortable to travel in than an Azuma.

So for personal preference based on your own journeys, not for a proper operational reason then. I mean, I’d rather have a Pendolino than an Azuma to Newcastle, but operationally it doesn’t really work.

 

[Jamesrob637]

So for personal preference based on your own journeys, not for a proper operational reason then. I mean, I’d rather have a Pendolino than an Azuma to Newcastle, but operationally it doesn’t really work.

Has a Pendolino ever been on the ECML apart from Glasgow to Edinburgh which doesn't really count?

 

[Cach17]

Has a Pendolino ever been on the ECML apart from Glasgow to Edinburgh which doesn't really count?

390055 made an Edinburgh to Kings Cross run back in 2012: https://web.archive.org/web/2013102.../news/pendolino-makes-historic-east-coast-run

 

[Jturner98]

So for personal preference based on your own journeys, not for a proper operational reason then. I mean, I’d rather have a Pendolino than an Azuma to Newcastle, but operationally it doesn’t really work.

I’d rather have a pacer to Newcastle

 

[43 302]

I’d rather have a pacer to Newcastle

I think you missed the point...

 

[yorksrob]

I'd rather have a thumper to Newcastle

 

[xotGD]

I'd rather have a thumper to Newcastle

I think the words "to Newcastle" were superfluous in that sentence!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think you missed the point...

Yes.
The point is, @Jturner98 wanting to visit Newcastle but not on an Azuma, is not a good enough reason to justify running IC225s there.

 

[Class15]

You can always get a 225 to York and then a TPE service?

(Yes, I know the TPE units are 80x, but not ‘Azumas’!)

 

[yorksrob]

I think the words "to Newcastle" were superfluous in that sentence!

Good point, well made !

 

[43 302]

You can always get a 225 to York and then a TPE service?

(Yes, I know the TPE units are 80x, but not ‘Azumas’!)

Not from December. Unless you plan on sleeping on a bench in the station and waiting for the first northbound in the morning.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Yes.
The point is, @Jturner98 wanting to visit Newcastle but not on an Azuma, is not a good enough reason to justify running IC225s there.

I mean...they did only ask WHY they weren't running to Newcastle originally. And then explained that they were interested in taking the 225 diagram for comfort reasons.
Of course, instead of giving a straight answer to their original question we've gone on a bit of a tangent..

Seriously though, is there an operational reason this is no longer happening? Shortened sets not giving the best acceleration to compete with Azuma timings or? Be interesting to know

 

[The Middle]

Seriously though, is there an operational reason this is no longer happening? Shortened sets not giving the best acceleration to compete with Azuma timings or? Be interesting to know

It is still happening. It was wanted to be avoided due to the fact if one sat down north of York it is even further from the thunderbird in Newark. Additionally, with only certain links at Doncaster and Kings Cross signing them it makes them difficult to get out of the way at Newcastle during disruption.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Seriously though, is there an operational reason this is no longer happening? Shortened sets not giving the best acceleration to compete with Azuma timings or? Be interesting to know

We’ve not seen a reputable source to say it isn’t happening yet.

 

[trainswitheddy]

It is still happening. It was wanted to be avoided due to the fact if one sat down north of York it is even further from the thunderbird in Newark. Additionally, with only certain links at Doncaster and Kings Cross signing them it makes them difficult to get out of the way at Newcastle during disruption.

That's understandable, am I right in saying briefly a WCRC 37 was stabled at York? I remember seeing that it rescued a GBRf set. Can see why this would be an issue for any 225 north of York though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2025 ==

We’ve not seen a reputable source to say it isn’t happening yet.

This was my understanding, but then at this point 225s north of York feels like an annual joke to get our hopes up

 

[43 302]

I'm still waiting for anyone to come up with a genuine operational or passenger experience benefit to using a 225-7 on the Newcastle stopper diagram. (Aside from cranking, of course.)

Clue, think of seats per hour per destination from London for one.

 

[Class91Joe]

Paths in RTT for the morning of Saturday 9th August for MK4 2+7 platform validation at Newcastle.

The paths have changed from what they were a few weeks ago, originally they had the set going around the bridges at Newcastle and into each different platform that way, however, the set now goes to Durham to reverse, where it heads back to Newcastle.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Newcastle all day on 09/08/2025

Train information at Newcastle all day on 09/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[The Middle]

I'm still waiting for anyone to come up with a genuine operational or passenger experience benefit to using a 225-7 on the Newcastle stopper diagram. (Aside from cranking, of course.)

Clue, think of seats per hour per destination from London for one.

Operational Reason: it is the only way LNER have been able to make their unit diagrams work in December. They don't want to be sending one I assure you!

 

[800Travel]

Paths in RTT for the morning of Saturday 9th August for MK4 2+7 platform validation at Newcastle.

The paths have changed from what they were a few weeks ago, originally they had the set going around the bridges at Newcastle and into each different platform that way, however, the set now goes to Durham to reverse, where it heads back to Newcastle.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Newcastle all day on 09/08/2025

Train information at Newcastle all day on 09/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I don’t see why they’d do this if the set was no longer coming to Newcastle - were the paths added this morning?

Fingers crossed it means plans are still in place!!

 

[littledude]

I think you’d struggle to find a passenger who prefers an Azuma over a MK4, especially any passengers paying eye-watering prices for first class. Large, leather armchairs on a MK4 or… the alternative

 

[800001]

I don’t see why they’d do this if the set was no longer coming to Newcastle - were the paths added this morning?

Fingers crossed it means plans are still in place!!

Incase they do actually have to put one on a Newcastle service in case of disruption etc

As long as Crewe's by Kings Cross or Leeds crew then it could happen .

 

[DanNCL]

I'm still waiting for anyone to come up with a genuine operational or passenger experience benefit to using a 225-7 on the Newcastle stopper diagram. (Aside from cranking, of course.)

Clue, think of seats per hour per destination from London for one.

How does it compare to a 5 car 80x? As let’s be honest unless they’re magicking up extra 9 car sets from thin air it would likely be a 5 car unit in place of the Mark 4s.

 

[YorksLad12]

I think you’d struggle to find a passenger who prefers an Azuma over a MK4, especially any passengers paying eye-watering prices for first class. Large, leather armchairs on a MK4 or… the alternative

Standard - provided I choose my seat - works for me as there's more legroom, which means I can store my bag under my legs. But First Class is not great, is it? Two people travelling together have to take a table of four because there's only one two-seater now. And the cross-over in the centre of the coach was quite useful. The seat backs are so high it feels like you're travelling in a cell... and the table leg gets in the way of storing your bag underneath it. Mk4 First Class was the high water mark, sadly.

 

[Class91Joe]

I don’t see why they’d do this if the set was no longer coming to Newcastle - were the paths added this morning?

Fingers crossed it means plans are still in place!!

Paths weren't added this morning, however they have recently been amended (within the last week) for the set to run to Durham for reversal, rather than multiple trips around the bridges at Newcastle.

 

[43 302]

How does it compare to a 5 car 80x? As let’s be honest unless they’re magicking up extra 9 car sets from thin air it would likely be a 5 car unit in place of the Mark 4s.

My point was that regardless of whether the additional Newcastle semi-fasts is a 5/7/9 car, it is still an increase in capacity. Contrast this to Leeds trains which will now have a decrease in capacity going from two 9 car trains per hour to a few five cars and lots of seven car trains. The benefit of using a 225-7 on a NCL train is keeping an 80x-9 on Leeds services. The tests should still be going ahead as there is still a desire to use 225-7s on those trains at some point, but this won't be from Dec25. The earliest would be April 2026.

 

[FrontSideBus]

I wonder how quick a 9 coach 225 would be with a Class 91 at either end!

 

[Class91Joe]

My point was that regardless of whether the additional Newcastle semi-fasts is a 5/7/9 car, it is still an increase in capacity. Contrast this to Leeds trains which will now have a decrease in capacity going from two 9 car trains per hour to a few five cars and lots of seven car trains. The benefit of using a 225-7 on a NCL train is keeping an 80x-9 on Leeds services. The tests should still be going ahead as there is still a desire to use 225-7s on those trains at some point, but this won't be from Dec25. The earliest would be April 2026.

There is a driver & crew allocated to the NCL tests so should defo go ahead all being well. Also why the extension to Apr 26, and where are you hearing this info if you don't mind me asking?

 

[1D53]

Paths weren't added this morning, however they have recently been amended (within the last week) for the set to run to Durham for reversal, rather than multiple trips around the bridges at Newcastle.

There is an OHLE issue around Greensfield which has meant a trip via the bridges isn't possible.