LM 319 cascade progress

[oversteer]

"London Midland has advised its WCML Stakeholders of the current situation and the Class 319 proposal, including Passenger Focus."

What do Passenger Focus do with this information? Do they publish it somewhere or just sit on it?



Also according to the first document some 350 services are retimed against 319 figures. Could this represent a change in journey times?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also according to the first document some 350 services are retimed against 319 figures. Could this represent a change in journey times?

Interesting question.

This train:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P70673/2015/07/13/advanced
is presently run using 321s but appears to be to 350 timings. I guess it presently just runs a bit late, indeed, I recall that when I last used it it was a couple of minutes late at Euston for no particular reason.

As one of the trains changing over is a Bletchley starter it's most likely that one.

 

[The Planner]

Also according to the first document some 350 services are retimed against 319 figures. Could this represent a change in journey times?

Doubtful, took a good while for 350 services to not be timed as 321s.

 

[DarloRich]

There was a 319 in Bletchley carriage sidings this morning. It was in Thameslink gray but unbranded

 

[sd0733]

This is the latesfrom LM on the 319s:

“The lease for the four Class 319 units has now been signed and accepted by leasing company Porterbrook, and the first of our seven Class 321 units has returned to leasing company, Eversholt.*
One of the four Class 319 units has now arrived from our sister company, GTR, and is currently stabled at Bletchley Carriage Sidings.* Modification works have been completed on this 1st unit and it is intended that before it is implemented into operation all seats on the train will be recovered with a brand new green moquette fabric and it will receive internal and external London Midland branding”

*

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's good - the 321s' old NSE moquette (is any of that left anywhere else?) really was starting to look threadbare.

 

[DasLunatic]

That's good - the 321s' old NSE moquette (is any of that left anywhere else?) really was starting to look threadbare.

There is - I believe the driver's cabs of AGA's 321s still have Blue Flash in them - I know 321333 does, and the ex-LM ones still have them, too.

 

[Tetchytyke]

One of the 321 workings is short formed again today, including the 1654 Tring, which is badly overcrowded already as an 8-car.

London Midland strike again. Useless.

 

[DarloRich]

One of the 321 workings is short formed again today, including the 1654 Tring, which is badly overcrowded already as an 8-car.

London Midland strike again. Useless.

indeed - but if they are instructed to dispense with their 321 units now, before replacements are ready, what choice do they have?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of the 321 workings is short formed again today, including the 1654 Tring, which is badly overcrowded already as an 8-car.

London Midland strike again. Useless.

Yep, 0559 off BLY this morning. Fortunately I got off at Watford before it ended up packed.

 

[oversteer]

So er how do 4x trains replace 7 and give the same level of service??

 

[Bletchleyite]

So er how do 4x trains replace 7 and give the same level of service??

Supposedly the availability of 350s is good enough that it won't impact the service. Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

The guard of the 0559 ex BLY this morning said the short-form was due to a technical problem with the other 321...

 

[Silverlinky]

Supposedly the availability of 350s is good enough that it won't impact the service. Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

The guard of the 0559 ex BLY this morning said the short-form was due to a technical problem with the other 321...

I beleive that the other unit was seconded later to run on the Abbey as the first Abbey service this morning ran over a shopping trolley left on the line near St Albans and sustained some damage.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So er how do 4x trains replace 7 and give the same level of service??

They don't. The 1634 Euston-Tring and return lost a unit (12-car to 8-car) at the December 14 timetable change to pay for the new Crewe trains. That caused huge overcrowding when it happened (the 1624 Milton Keynes was retimed to 1630 in May to help with this).

Off-peak it shouldn't be too bad- one of the two 321 8-car diagrams sit in Camden all afternoon getting nicely baking hot- but I can only expect a cut in capacity to happen somewhere. I'd expect the 1604 Tring to lose a unit, along with another peak 12-car.

 

[D365]

Not to mention that the Class 319 is not authorised to operate in twelve-car formation, I'm not sure if they'll be challenging that particular restriction when they come off Thameslink...

Looks as if at least one of the 321 diagrams will have to be covered by a 350?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thought that was a DOO issue.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not to mention that the Class 319 is not authorised to operate in twelve-car formation

That shouldn't be a major issue, the 321s only run as a maximum of 8-car on London Midland. There's currently 2x8-car and 1x4-car (Abbey Flyer) diagram for the 321s, as far as I can tell, although before December 14 the off-peak main line 321s ran as a 4-car.

One of the diagrams will need to be a 350, which they'll have to find from somewhere.

 

[Silverlinky]

There are 3 or 4 350's on maintenance every day, there are 2 stabled off peak at Bletchley, and there are 3 units stabled in the middle sidings at Euston. In addition to that there are at least 12 units stabled at Camden.

So with around 20 units stabled off peak, they will certainly be able to cover the daytime diagrams of the 321's without much trouble.

Peak time however I'd expect another move or two to get units back down to Euston after working north rather than stabling them from 6 or 7pm in the evening. There is already one move from Northampton empty to Euston in the evening peak.

Anyway, 4 doesn't have to replace 7 as there are only 5 321's in traffic on any given day.

 

[Nym]

There's this little thing called maintenance, most planners and buyers forget about it when ordering their fleet of trains...

 

[Tetchytyke]

Covering off-peak won't be the issue. A 350 shuttling to Tring and back instead of staying in Camden won't be an issue. And that's if it's needed, two of the 321s don't leave Camden between the peaks.

It's the peak trains that'll be the issue. I don't see how they're going to cover the extra double-321 diagram (assuming 3x319 in service and one spare) without cutting some 12-car 350 turns down to 8-car.

The fleet is already over-stretched, if a single 350 is defective in a morning then the whole day's diagram ends up short formed.

 

[Fincra5]

Not to mention that the Class 319 is not authorised to operate in twelve-car formation, I'm not sure if they'll be challenging that particular restriction when they come off Thameslink...

Looks as if at least one of the 321 diagrams will have to be covered by a 350?

AFAIK 319s ran as 12cars under Connex with a guard. DOO is 8 cars max for them.

 

[D365]

AFAIK 319s ran as 12cars under Connex with a guard. DOO is 8 cars max for them.

Thought it was also something to do with opening the cab emergency doors in a single-bore tunnel.

 

[Domh245]

I Initially thought it was to do with DOO arrangements, but I remember a poster here telling me it was actually something to do with either OLE or current draws.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could get away with dropping the 1751 down to 8, I have used it twice this week and the front 4 have been nearly empty. Pleasant but unnecessary.

 

[Fincra5]

I Initially thought it was to do with DOO arrangements, but I remember a poster here telling me it was actually something to do with either OLE or current draws.

Well there's no mirrors or CCTV monitors for 12 car operation AFAIK so under current TLK they'd have to be 8 Car DOO max...

But there could be other issues.

 

[Silverlinky]

319429 out and about main line testing/training today.....

 

[Tetchytyke]

Good.

There's been more issues with the 321s today, morning trains cancelled and more short-forms this afternoon. Anyone would think London Midland are not bothering to maintain the 321s properly now they know they're leaving.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good.

There's been more issues with the 321s today, morning trains cancelled and more short-forms this afternoon. Anyone would think London Midland are not bothering to maintain the 321s properly now they know they're leaving.

They aren't the only ones at this kind of thing. A certain VT ran the old XC Mk2s firmly into the ground with short-forms all over the place, including one set that ended up short formed from 7 cars to 4.

 

[oversteer]

With two 321s out of service they have to cancel at least two peak Tring stoppers and short form them in the evening. Seems a bit smoke and mirrors to suggest a 350 or two could cover it!

 

[causton]

With two 321s out of service they have to cancel at least two peak Tring stoppers and short form them in the evening. Seems a bit smoke and mirrors to suggest a 350 or two could cover it!

Makes you wonder what will happen when all 7 go, to be replaced by 4 319s...!