LM 319 cascade progress

[DasLunatic]

Not without a coupling adapter, AFAIK.

 

[northwichcat]

As an aside, can 319s and 321s work in multiple with each other?

In theory yes. 319s and 321s can also in theory would in multiple with 323s, but that would of course mean the top speed of the 319/321 can't be reached neither can the superior acceleration of the 323 be achieved.

 

[DarloRich]

That explains why the 1654 Tring (a 321) was short-formed to four carriages then. Was on the platform five minutes before departure and couldn't physically fit on the train.

London Midland really are run by imbeciles.

yes or perhaps the imbeciles have been instructed to dispense with the sets now

 

[AM9]

In theory yes. 319s and 321s can also in theory would in multiple with 323s, but that would of course mean the top speed of the 319/321 can't be reached neither can the superior acceleration of the 323 be achieved.

Yes of course, you would get something in between up to about 60mph and then the 319 or 321's superior top end would take over until the 323 limit was reached. Can't thinlk why a metro train would intentionally be rostered with an express train though.

 

[northwichcat]

Yes of course, you would get something in between up to about 60mph and then the 319 or 321's superior top end would take over until the 323 limit was reached. Can't thinlk why a metro train would intentionally be rostered with an express train though.

At the time it was envisaged that a new build EMU running on AC should be compatible with previous models of EMUs running on AC, even if there was no intention to run them in multiple. Maybe it could be useful now though if LM or Northern need to rescue a 319 and have a 323 nearby?

 

[Silverlinky]

yes or perhaps the imbeciles have been instructed to dispense with the sets now

If the unit has gone off-lease and the movement has been planned and booked I suspect it would be difficult to re-arrange at the drop of a hat.
Other 321's have suffered problems recently, and being as there is only a timetabled requirement for 5 of the 7 units it was probably considered at the time that one unit going back wouldn't impact on anything.
Also, the previous day 350's had substituted for 321's on one of the booked 8 car diagrams so I don't know why one 321 was out and about by itself anyway!

 

[AM9]

At the time it was envisaged that a new build EMU running on AC should be compatible with previous models of EMUs running on AC, even if there was no intention to run them in multiple. Maybe it could be useful now though if LM or Northern need to rescue a 319 and have a 323 nearby?

There's nothing magic about train control systems from the user's point of view, it's mainly either a production influenced change or it is a sales and marketing drive to add more bells and whistles. I'm all for long-term legacy compatibility unless there is a sound operational reason to change.

 

[TEW]

Can't thinlk why a metro train would intentionally be rostered with an express train though.

It happens a lot with DMUs. 170+153 formations on London Midland, 142+158 on Northern, 165+168 on Chiltern.

 

[westcoaster]

At the time it was envisaged that a new build EMU running on AC should be compatible with previous models of EMUs running on AC, even if there was no intention to run them in multiple. Maybe it could be useful now though if LM or Northern need to rescue a 319 and have a 323 nearby?

There would need to be a cut out switch on the 323 for its rheostatic brakes, there is one in the networkers incase it needs to be rescued by or resue a 319.

 

[causton]

Bletchley earlier today

 

[The Box Photter]

View attachment 22917

Bletchley earlier today

Interesting dark grey doors.

Is this staying with Thameslink or being shunted off somewhere else?

 

[PaintYourWagon]

Interesting dark grey doors.

Is this staying with Thameslink or being shunted off somewhere else?

Believed to be the first for London Midland. Just has to have the green vinyls and branding added.

 

[SprinterMan]

Interesting dark grey doors.

Is this staying with Thameslink or being shunted off somewhere else?

I am tempted to vomit with shock at this point! I personally was not expecting LM 319s until September. Damn, with they vinyls on, that will be a good looking unit.

 

[D365]

What are the odds on it looking any better than with a Southern livery?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What are the odds on it looking any better than with a Southern livery?

I dunno, I think the LM livery looks better.

 

[Stats]

LM have now submitted their application to change their track access contract to be able to run the 4 Class 319s between London Euston and Rugby (via Northampton) and the Abbey Line (subject to overcoming the gauge restriction issues). Services will enter passenger service on 20th September and [as discussed previously] will be acquired during the summer for driver and Senior Conductor training.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...n Midland) - Section 22 - Closes 31 July 2015

 

[Bletchleyite]

What gauge restriction issues affect 319s that don't affect 321s and why? Apart from the provision of an end door, the bodyshells look identical. Does something stick out under the train?

 

[The Planner]

It will be a desktop exercise to prove they are gauge cleared, they aren't in the sectional appendix so it has to be done. They will also need to go through the vehicle change process as 319s are not in their track access contract as specified equipment. Also shows that they won't appear in the West Mids.

 

[D365]

Did Class 319s not run to Rugby previously, via the West London Line? Before the Class 377/2 fleet was introduced and the service was cut back.

 

[matt]

Did Class 319s not run to Rugby previously, via the West London Line? Before the Class 377/2 fleet was introduced and the service was cut back.

Yes 319s used to run Rugby.

 

[D365]

Yes 319s used to run Rugby.

Unless there's been any significant structural alterations in the last ten years (that would likely affect a Class 321 anyway), as has been said it must just be a paperwork exercise.

 

[westcoaster]

They are cleared for the mainline, its only the abbey line that needs clearing/dispensating.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What will happen to the units reliveried for LM between now and September as I understand one has been done already?

 

[DasLunatic]

What will happen to the units reliveried for LM between now and September as I understand one has been done already?

One has been done, into a temporary white-with-grey-doors thing. I believe it will gain a proper livery sometime later this month - it'll be vinyl.

 

[Silverlinky]

What gauge restriction issues affect 319s that don't affect 321s and why? Apart from the provision of an end door, the bodyshells look identical. Does something stick out under the train?

319's are NOT cleared on the West Coast Main Line south of West London Junction according to the current Sectional Appendix and therefore can not get to Euston as it stands.

Gauge restriction must be to do with the shoe gear and shoe beams.

 

[D365]

Shoegear is to be removed from all Class 319s that will not be operating on third rail electrification with their future lessors. Presumably to remove unnecessary component weight and avoid clearance issues as you describe.

 

[MK Tom]

Looking at the pictures of 319429 it looks like it's already lost its shoe gear.

 

[childwallblues]

yes or perhaps the imbeciles have been instructed to dispense with the sets now

More likely. Have any LM 321s gone off lease yet?

 

[158722]

More likely. Have any LM 321s gone off lease yet?

321411 moved to Wabtec at Doncaster last week.

 

[physics34]

Shoegear is to be removed from all Class 319s that will not be operating on third rail electrification with their future lessors. Presumably to remove unnecessary component weight and avoid clearance issues as you describe.

quite often when the 319s went to Rugby... the first trip on a monday morning the shoe gear would often get smashed to smithereens as the WCML maintencence people didnt know about the clearance issues.