LM 319 cascade progress

[Techniquest]

Photos show 319216 at Northampton, which was also noted on Leighton Logs.

It is still in Southern livery. Transfer was indicated as 22nd July as 5Z20.

I assume that must be the one parked up at the station end of Kings Heath depot, Northampton yesterday, furthest siding away from the Down Main. Wasn't expecting to see it so didn't quite get a chance to read the number. Fine by me though, as I don't need 216. 215 and 220 I do out of that batch, so safe as houses for me!

That's not to say I won't be partaking of some 319 thrash down the WCML South when the opportunity comes up!

 

[Silverlinky]

Latest from LM (unofficially of course) is that 4 319's will be in service come September 21st. One on the St Albans branch, an 8 car mainline with one unit spare.
By December there will be 7 units with LM, and by the middle of next year that number will be 17.
350/2's will be moving....but only to the West Mids to operate on the newly electrified Chase Line, there are no plans for any other TOC to take on 350/2's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do hope we get all the 319/2s.

 

[Techniquest]

Latest from LM (unofficially of course) is that 4 319's will be in service come September 21st. One on the St Albans branch, an 8 car mainline with one unit spare.
By December there will be 7 units with LM, and by the middle of next year that number will be 17.
350/2's will be moving....but only to the West Mids to operate on the newly electrified Chase Line, there are no plans for any other TOC to take on 350/2's.

Not all that long until September 21st

However I'm confused, unless I've mis-read something. The Chase Valley wiring up won't be finished until 2017, correct? I've just re-read your post and it's suggested by mid-2016 there will be 17 319s. I'm guessing that these are displacing 350/2s for driver training ahead of the Chase Valley going electric?

Interesting times...

 

[D365]

Not all that long until September 21st

T'is the very day I begin at Uni

Interesting times...

Certainly so. Does that make it pointless for Porterbrook to take the 17 Northern 323s to London Midland, if there is no need for the remaining fleet out of Soho. Seems far too much hassle really.

 

[Techniquest]

September 21st is also the day I return from Ireland!

Let Northern keep their 323s, just so much easier.

I do however wonder which 319s we'll end up getting with LM by summer 2016, if any of them are required I'll be having to make an effort and get off my rear to clear the fleet again!

 

[oversteer]

Swapping newish, air conditioned 350s with more clapped out 319s is not going to go down well with LM commuters ! Hope the rumour isn't true.

 

[Nym]

If it's 2+2 seating and more capacity, I'll be happy...

 

[muddythefish]

Swapping newish, air conditioned 350s with more clapped out 319s is not going to go down well with LM commuters ! Hope the rumour isn't true.

The 319s are awful _ I feel sorry for LM commuters and of course those between Manchester and Liverpool who have had these units foisted on them.

Only the 317s are worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 319s are awful _ I feel sorry for LM commuters and of course those between Manchester and Liverpool who have had these units foisted on them.

Only the 317s are worse.

Could be worse. Could be...

 

[Aictos]

Could be worse. Could be...

Indeed some people moan just for the sake of moaning, the North West has now got 4 car EMUs which are faster, more quieter and have more seats then the 2 car DMUs that existed before them.

They ought to be grateful they are getting investment instead of moaning all the time.

 

[Techniquest]

Exactly, they're getting a more modern railway yet still moan.

I just hope they get the 319s refurbished to the same level as the Northern 319s. Having sampled them last week, I can say from experience that they're actually really nice inside, much better interior than it was with Thameslink!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly, they're getting a more modern railway yet still moan.

I just hope they get the 319s refurbished to the same level as the Northern 319s. Having sampled them last week, I can say from experience that they're actually really nice inside, much better interior thI an it was with Thameslink!

As the thread has been split, this is more about LM passengers who would be getting a nominal downgrade, but the 319s are to me perfectly acceptable units for South East commuter services, given that that's what they've spent their life so far doing.

 

[Techniquest]

Oh I didn't suggest they won't be any good, there can be no doubt they will be fine, but they will need a good tidy-up. Done well, it won't be such a issue that they replace 350s. I'll certainly be interested in seeing just how far north they'll send the 319s, Northampton makes sense.

Mind you, we'll accept them happily for the Chase Valley...

 

[Silverlinky]

As the thread has been split, this is more about LM passengers who would be getting a nominal downgrade, but the 319s are to me perfectly acceptable units for South East commuter services, given that that's what they've spent their life so far doing.

Precisely!

There is a possibility that LM could lose 10 350/2 units whilst retaining the other 27 in addition to the 30 mark 1's and 10 mark 3's.

So they "might" lose 10 out of 77 units and replace them with 10 refurbushed 319's. (as the other 7 directly replace the 7 321's) Oh god, its the end of the world as we know it!

 

[Aictos]

Exactly, they're getting a more modern railway yet still moan.

I just hope they get the 319s refurbished to the same level as the Northern 319s. Having sampled them last week, I can say from experience that they're actually really nice inside, much better interior than it was with Thameslink!

Indeed, for years and this forum is no different where people have complained about lack of investment in the North so when they do get EMUs which Northern have refurbished well in my eye, it's akin to a kid throwing a tantrum!

 

[WatcherZero]

They havent been refurbished though, they have been refreshed which is simply replacing the soft furnishings and a lick of paint.

 

[MCR247]

Indeed some people moan just for the sake of moaning, the North West has now got 4 car EMUs which are faster, more quieter and have more seats then the 2 car DMUs that existed before them.

I agree, but just to be awkward: sitting in the motor coach of a 319 on a fast is anything but quiet!

 

[Aictos]

They havent been refurbished though, they have been refreshed which is simply replacing the soft furnishings and a lick of paint.

Yes I know but it's given the 319s some TLC which made them look better.

I agree, but just to be awkward: sitting in the motor coach of a 319 on a fast is anything but quiet!

To be even more awkward, sitting in the motor coach of any member of the Class 32X family (I'm including 317s and 319s in this family) is anything but quiet!

 

[oversteer]

To reach the advertised length, many of not most commuter LM services are mixed class 350s. How will that be possible when part of the 350 fleet is switched to 319s, which I assume won't couple to Desiros?

 

[AM9]

To be even more awkward, sitting in the motor coach of any member of the Class 32X family (I'm including 317s and 319s in this family) is anything but quiet!

I think that you meant to include 321s there. And contrary to the belief of some, the noise from some of the 350s and Electrostars that have done higher mileage since major overhaul isn't that quiet. The only difference is that they have no opening windows and there is air conditioning controlling the temperature at some point, (not necessarily a benefit to some). The fact is that any electric train is quieter than a 142 or 150 from standing to 75mph, (the diesels don't go any faster), doesn't stink of diesel fumes and of course the journey should take a bit less time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

350 aircon makes an almighty racket. The absolute silence of a stationary 319 or 321 can be a real old-fashioned pleasure.

 

[87015]

To reach the advertised length, many of not most commuter LM services are mixed class 350s. How will that be possible when part of the 350 fleet is switched to 319s, which I assume won't couple to Desiros?

It'll be even worse at the slightest hint of an issue as "service recovery" isn't in the LM dictionary and lots of heads will be planted in the sand...

 

[Tetchytyke]

The absolute silence of a stationary 319 or 321 can be a real old-fashioned pleasure.

Unless it's been sat in the sunshine on Camden sidings all day, in which case it's a sweaty horror.

319s are better than Pacers, but we're talking about London Midland not Northern. The 319s are a step down even from a 350/2, and sending the more modern trains to PTE subsidised fare heaven sounds like a massive step backwards. Though it might well help LM manage the mileage on them a bit better, so the directors might be able to afford their third Lamborghini after all.

 

[causton]

In an internal news bulletin LM have said a leaflet will be available in early September (approx 3 weeks before the class 319 trains come into service) explaining the introduction of the new trains. If not already mentioned here, they will apparently not all be in full LM livery, assuming white or ex-Southern colours!

 

[IanXC]

Can I remind members that this thread is for discussion of the introduction to service of 319s with London Midland. Speculation around wider unconfirmed cascades should take place in the appropriate thread, for instance http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110701

 

[muddythefish]

Indeed some people moan just for the sake of moaning, the North West has now got 4 car EMUs which are faster, more quieter and have more seats then the 2 car DMUs that existed before them.

They ought to be grateful they are getting investment instead of moaning all the time.

Yep, northern peasants should be grateful for the scraps on offer from under the rich south's dining table.

Thank you very much.

 

[Class377/5]

Lets not turn this into another north vs south debate please.

 

[Aictos]

Yep, northern peasants should be grateful for the scraps on offer from under the rich south's dining table.

Thank you very much.

The North is seeing a lot of much needed investment from electrification to more EMUs, the fact that you think otherwise is just supporting my argument that rather then be happy and supportive of the investment ongoing in the North, you and others are like spoilt brats who aren't happy with the massive investment programme you're getting.

Lets not turn this into another north vs south debate please.

I'm not, there is so much investment ongoing at the moment in the industry from lines being electrified in the North West, Scotland and Great Western Mainline plus you've got Thameslink, Crossrail, various Manchester Metrolink upgrades and then there's HS2 to come.

Sadly there are people who do take great delight in turning any debate into a north vs south debate and who complain that the North get the left overs from the South forgetting in the process the huge amount of investment that is ongoing in the North.

Although I do live and work in the South, I tend to see the bigger picture and therefore I am happy to see that the North is getting the investment it needs, yes they might not be brand new EMUs but remember the Wharfedale and Airedale lines when first electrified had Class 308s before they got replaced by the Class 333s.

 

[DasLunatic]

To reach the advertised length, many of not most commuter LM services are mixed class 350s. How will that be possible when part of the 350 fleet is switched to 319s, which I assume won't couple to Desiros?

Could refitting 319s with Dellner (I think 350s use Dellner) couplings be a viable option instead of running what is seen as a microfleet? If they're going through a refresh/refit right now, could new couplers be included as part of the work?