Leeds station is an embarrassment

[Blamethrower]

It was an issue back in the day at Leeds just after it all re-opened.

"Is there a bin anywhere sir?"
"No"
"Why not?"
"Terrorists and whatnot"
"So what should I do with this rubbish?"
"Just chuck it on ' ground and someone will be round to clean it up a bit later"
"That's not a very good solution is it?"
"Not my choice lover, you can always tek it with ya"

I was not the only one who had this reply. After years of being told to just "chuck it on ' floor", it is not surprising that having not replaced any bins, this issue still exists

 

[edwin_m]

You know why they don't, right? Clue: it isn't cost-cutting.

If there isn't a bin, take your litter home, or put it in the bin on the train.

Neil
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ISTR stations are split into low, medium and high risk, with big-city stations getting high. Clear bin bag bins are provided on low and medium risk stations, whereas none may be provided on high risk stations.

And what exactly is the risk? We've already discussed that someone who wished to do so could cause carnage easily enough without the assistance of a station litter bin. Planting something in a train litter bin, for example, could be far worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And what exactly is the risk? We've already discussed that someone who wished to do so could cause carnage easily enough without the assistance of a station litter bin. Planting something in a train litter bin, for example, could be far worse.

Ask the Government that...

Neil

 

[thenorthern]

With terrorism I think its sadly the case that if someone wants to cause a major atrocity they will always find a way and the only real way to prevent them is adequate surveillance from the security services and extra vigilance from both the public and the police. As a whole the British public are very good at noticing suspicious packages which I am sure had prevented many atrocities over the years and saved countless lives.

As I have said though Islamic related terrorism mostly uses suicide bombings as its primary method rather than planted bombs which Northern Ireland related terrorism favoured so I don't see litter bins as a real threat compared to what they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

[anti-pacer]

Just passed through Bradford Interchange station. The bus station (Metro ran) is spotless. The train station (Northern Rail) had a fair amount of litter.

I would say that this region though has more than its share of scruffy buggers!

In addition, on the train to Leeds, someone was eating a Greggs takeaway and left his bag of packaging/greasy wrappers on the armrest (144), so when he got off I told him and asked him to go back and remove it. He said it slipped his mind, but wouldn't go back. We had a civil discussion about it before he said "Let's see what that police lady thinks about it" (PCSO). He fairly quickly saw the error of his ways and went back for it. I also asked a girl who'd shoved her empty bottle down the side of the seat to remove it, which she did without question.

There's bins on trains and no excuse! I don't want to travel on filthy trains because people are too ignorant and lazy to bin their crap.

 

[yorksrob]

And there's no excuse to run a multi-million pound business that produces litter without providing your customers with a way of disposing of that litter.

 

[RichmondCommu]

And there's no excuse to run a multi-million pound business that produces litter without providing your customers with a way of disposing of that litter.

Well exactly! Network Rail make lots of money from renting out shop space at stations so I'm sure they can afford to provide bins on each platform. If Leeds station is indeed full of litter I would say that is the fault of NR rather than the consumer.

If you go and eat your lunch in the park there are plenty of bins to save you taking litter with you or dropping it on the floor. Indeed the local boroughs in London are very good at collecting litter from bins

Many years a go when the IRA were active on the mainland BR had an excuse to not provide litter bins but not now. Suicide bombers don't bother with bins....

 

[anti-pacer]

And there's no excuse to run a multi-million pound business that produces litter without providing your customers with a way of disposing of that litter.

This was on a train though, where there are bins.

 

[DarloRich]

And there's no excuse to run a multi-million pound business that produces litter without providing your customers with a way of disposing of that litter.

exactly - there should be bins provided, by whomever.

You are wasting your breath with the OP. He is obsessed with litter and can not accept any other point of view on the subject other than it is terrible in Leeds/Yorkshire generally and that it is indicative of a decline on civilisation.

If Leeds station is indeed full of litter....

It isn’t. I am there most Friday, Saturdays and Sundays at present and it does seem that bad. I rarely see anything other than the odd packet floating about and what there is seems to be on the track. The OP has no sense of scale or comparison to other areas as he doesn’t seem to travel widely.

That said more bins and mobile cleaners should be provided. I guess the question is who pays.

This is the same every day and seems to be the only NR operated station that cannot keep on top of its cleaning. Some of the trackbeds are filthy too.

Cleaning the “trackbeds” is a difficult task. As I am sure you are aware you can’t just send someone down to the side of the track with a bin bag to pick things up. I am sure you are aware of the amount of man power and paperwork needed to access the track safely at any time, let alone at a big and busy station. i would rather that effort was used to fix the actual track.

In contrast, King's Cross and Birmingham New Street, two stations I have visited recently, were lovely and clean.

Leeds station is a cold, unwelcoming, dirty place. God knows what visitors to this allegedly wonderful region think.

Well visitors didn’t seem to be that bothered when the tour de france visited leeds................

 

[TUC]

Someone change the title to 'Leeds is an embarrassment'

But it isn't. It's a growing, bustling city. What is it about the British that they want to artificially find a reason to knock everything? I'm all for pushing for improvement but I'm so weary of cynicism.

 

[anti-pacer]

exactly - there should be bins provided, by whomever.

You are wasting your breath with the OP. He is obsessed with litter and can not accept any other point of view on the subject other than it is terrible in Leeds/Yorkshire generally and that it is indicative of a decline on civilisation.



It isn’t. I am there most Friday, Saturdays and Sundays at present and it does seem that bad. I rarely see anything other than the odd packet floating about and what there is seems to be on the track. The OP has no sense of scale or comparison to other areas as he doesn’t seem to travel widely.

That said more bins and mobile cleaners should be provided. I guess the question is who pays.



Cleaning the “trackbeds” is a difficult task. As I am sure you are aware you can’t just send someone down to the side of the track with a bin bag to pick things up. I am sure you are aware of the amount of man power and paperwork needed to access the track safely at any time, let alone at a big and busy station. i would rather that effort was used to fix the actual track.



Well visitors didn’t seem to be that bothered when the tour de france visited leeds................

I want to live in a clean country, why is that so wrong?

As for where I travel, don't patronise me! I travel extensively thank you.

If litter doesn't bother you, don't pull up those who it does bother.

 

[edwin_m]

Leeds station has mid-platform crossovers on several platforms, so there is a risk of something thrown onto the track wedging in these points and causing disruption.

 

[muz379]

That said more bins and mobile cleaners should be provided. I guess the question is who pays.

I dont think the OP has disputed this , and i Think most people in the thread pretty much agree it should be network rail who provide these because of the money they made from allowing retail concessions in the station .

I however do agree with the OP when he says just because there is not a bin available when there should be that provides an excuse for littering .

 

[DarloRich]

I dont think the OP has disputed this , and i Think most people in the thread pretty much agree it should be network rail who provide these because of the money they made from allowing retail concessions in the station .

I however do agree with the OP when he says just because there is not a bin available when there should be that provides an excuse for littering .

I am not carrying my litter home. If there is no bin it will go under a seat or on a ledge as tidily as I can make it for one of the mobile cleaners to collect. Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

BTW how much extra will you accept on your ticket to pay for the bins to be emptied and the refuse sorted? Odd that no one seems to want to pay for the services.
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I want to live in a clean country, why is that so wrong?

As for where I travel, don't patronise me! I travel extensively thank you.

If litter doesn't bother you, don't pull up those who it does bother.

Nothing is wrong with wanting to live in a "clean" country. However, imo you go over the top and seem to lack any kind of objectivity.

As I have said I use Leeds station most weekends. It seems fairly clean to me.

 

[muz379]

I am not carrying my litter home. If there is no bin it will go under a seat or on a ledge as tidily as I can make it for one of the mobile cleaners to collect. Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

BTW how much extra will you accept on your ticket to pay for the bins to be emptied and the refuse sorted? Odd that no one seems to want to pay for the services.

each to their own .Just like to point out i've never had to carry my litter all the way home . I have usually come across a bin long before I get myself home .

If you are stood on a station platform eating whatever it is you have bought waiting for your train , would it be too hard for you to keep hold of it till the train which has bins on it arrives ?

I dont think that any extra is required to be charged on the price of a ticket to provide bins at the station . As has already been discussed at length in this thread network rail makes a lot of money from food concessions in its stations . Cost is not the barrier to providing bins , it is probably one of the cheapest things network rail could do to improve the station and maybe even cut down on the number of mobile cleaners collecting litter . It is some perceived threat that someone might put a bomb in a bin which is making Network rail apprehensive about providing them at some stations . .

As for emptying bins on trains , I usually find the bins on trains empty as a matter of fact . Usually because scruffy people would rather leave their stuff on tables , under seats on the floor etc etc . So until people start using these bins on trains properly I dont think the toc is going to have to spend any more money getting them emptied . In fact if more people used them they would probably save money in not having to hire so many cleaners to go all the way through trains at certain points throughout the day .

 

[Tetchytyke]

the train which has bins on it

The bins on most trains are so small as to be useless.

 

[DarloRich]

each to their own .Just like to point out i've never had to carry my litter all the way home . I have usually come across a bin long before I get myself home .

If you are stood on a station platform eating whatever it is you have bought waiting for your train , would it be too hard for you to keep hold of it till the train which has bins on it arrives ?

I will bin it on the train given the chance. The emptying, grading and disposal of the waste still has a cost.

I dont think that any extra is required to be charged on the price of a ticket to provide bins at the station . As has already been discussed at length in this thread network rail makes a lot of money from food concessions in its stations . Cost is not the barrier to providing bins , it is probably one of the cheapest things network rail could do to improve the station and maybe even cut down on the number of mobile cleaners collecting litter

But sadly there may well be a cost. You assume that the contacts for cleaning etc already cover emptying bins, grading waste, disposing of waste etc. If they don’t they have to be varied. That all coasts money and often a surprisingly large sum of money!

As for emptying bins on trains , I usually find the bins on trains empty as a matter of fact . Usually because scruffy people would rather leave their stuff on tables , under seats on the floor etc etc . So until people start using these bins on trains properly I dont think the toc is going to have to spend any more money getting them emptied . In fact if more people used them they would probably save money in not having to hire so many cleaners to go all the way through trains at certain points throughout the day .

I find the bins on trains often full. Certainly longer distance ones. My view is they should provide more mobile on board cleaners like Virgin do.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I regularly use both Huddersfield and Dewsbury stations, both of which have clear bag bins on the platforms. These bins are even labelled for recyclable/non-recyclable waste*, though the labels are generally ignored :roll:. I also assume that the litter collected is dealt with by FTPE's contractors rather than the local authority (Kirklees) as the criteria for what is and isn't recyclable is different to at my home.
Now obviously Leeds is bigger and busier than these two, and is NR managed rather than FTPE, but surely these tactics could be repeated and adapted by the management at Leeds.

*The cynic in me does wonder if it all gets shoved in the same truck to go the the same landfill or incinerator anyway, the labels being simply 'Greenwashing', though if the labels are ignored that's more likely to happen.

 

[alexl92]

Cleaning the “trackbeds” is a difficult task. As I am sure you are aware you can’t just send someone down to the side of the track with a bin bag to pick things up. I am sure you are aware of the amount of man power and paperwork needed to access the track safely at any time, let alone at a big and busy station. i would rather that effort was used to fix the actual track.



Well visitors didn’t seem to be that bothered when the tour de france visited leeds................

It is a difficult task, but I've seen a group from the orange army wandering down the trackbed at Platform 15/16 picking up litter, so it's obviously achieveable. Personally I don't think the trackbed's that bad though.

And I think the visitors were there for the cycling rather than the prettiness of the station - they'd have used whatever station was there because that's there the transport was!

 

[anti-pacer]

It is a difficult task, but I've seen a group from the orange army wandering down the trackbed at Platform 15/16 picking up litter, so it's obviously achieveable. Personally I don't think the trackbed's that bad though.

And I think the visitors were there for the cycling rather than the prettiness of the station - they'd have used whatever station was there because that's there the transport was!

The worst trackbeds have been the bay platforms and platform 1.
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I find the bins on trains often full. Certainly longer distance ones. My view is they should provide more mobile on board cleaners like Virgin do.

I certainly do agree with this, and for Northern it would be good, although to be honest, most litter on their trains tends to be on the floor, so that could prove a bit problematic whilst there's passengers on board.

 

[Grumpy]

The worst trackbeds have been the bay platforms and platform 1.
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.

I used Leeds station today and have to agree that the platform 1 trackbed is pretty bad. However apart from the clearly marked packaging from Pumpkin and McDonalds that might have been put in bins (and really there is no excuse not to provide the hooped/clear plastic bag type) much of the problem seemed to be toilet rolls and whatever else might have been discarded at the same time. My impression is that platform 1 is mainly used by the Harrogate line DMU's which are not fitted with retention tanks.

 

[badger1badger]

To make sweeping statements about Leeds is unjust and unfair.


I agree with YorksRob -

What tosh.

If I go to a cafe or If I'm out and about in public and go to a shop, you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a bin nearby, or the proprietor will have a bin for litter. If I take what I have bought away into public land, it is for me to find a bin.

Major railway stations are not public land. They are businesses that make plenty of money out of outlets and concessions. If they are going to sell such things, they should provide litter facilities on their premises.

 

[ianhr]

Looking at the stats in the latest 'Rail' I was amazed to see how busy Leeds is and I suppose this suggests that it deserves another major upgrade.
27,729,453 entries & exits in year ending 31/3/14.
More than Manchester Picc, Glasgow Central, and any other stations apart from Birmingham N.S. & major London terminals. No other stations outside London come anywhere near Leeds in terms of volume of passengers. Huge amounts of money seem to have been thrown at Reading with only 15,673,400!

 

[physics34]

If you want an embarassment i give you..................... Clapham Junction

 

[anti-pacer]

If you want an embarassment i give you..................... Clapham Junction

Elaborate if you will please?
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To make sweeping statements about Leeds is unjust and unfair. -

Really, enlighten me as to how you think that?

 

[yorksrob]

Elaborate if you will please?
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Really, enlighten me as to how you think that?

I can't speak for Badger2badger, but from my experience of travelling around the railway network, I can't say as I have found Leeds passengers to be any more dirty or drunk or disorderly than those of any other major station in the country, or indeed of Leeds as being more encrusted in dirt and grime than any of our great stations across the Nation, so whilst it has its shortcomings like everywhere else, it seems unfair to paint it as some kind of hell hole.

 

[anti-pacer]

I can't speak for Badger2badger, but from my experience of travelling around the railway network, I can't say as I have found Leeds passengers to be any more dirty or drunk or disorderly than those of any other major station in the country, or indeed of Leeds as being more encrusted in dirt and grime than any of our great stations across the Nation, so whilst it has its shortcomings like everywhere else, it seems unfair to paint it as some kind of hell hole.

Well as someone who uses Leeds station daily, King's Cross regularly, and both Manchester Piccadilly and Birmingham New Street reasonably regularly, I have to say that litter on Leeds station is by far the worst.

For some reason, platforms 2-5 seem to be worst, especially for discarded McDonald's bags and coffee cups left on seats.

However, stations aside, my good lady and I were in Central London on the Saturday before Christmas, and it was filthy!

 

[yorksrob]

Well as someone who uses Leeds station daily, King's Cross regularly, and both Manchester Piccadilly and Birmingham New Street reasonably regularly, I have to say that litter on Leeds station is by far the worst.

For some reason, platforms 2-5 seem to be worst, especially for discarded McDonald's bags and coffee cups left on seats.

However, stations aside, my good lady and I were in Central London on the Saturday before Christmas, and it was filthy!

Perhaps they need to amend the cleaning regime a bit. however, I still find it a generally decent station to use every day.

 

[anti-pacer]

Perhaps they need to amend the cleaning regime a bit. however, I still find it a generally decent station to use every day.

Well the NR reception told me 6 cleaners are in operation at any one time on Leeds station.

If that's the case, 4 of them are hiding in the toilets!

I'm not sure how it works but in my humble and admittedly non-expert opinion you need the following in Leeds station;

1 cleaner just doing the main concourse and outside the front of the station
1 cleaner just doing the Wellington Quarter concourse and rear entrances
1 cleaner just doing platforms 1-5
1 cleaner just doing platforms 6-11
1 cleaner just doing platforms 12-15
1 cleaner just doing platforms 16-17 and footbridge

Maybe then it would run smoothly.

 

[DarloRich]

Well the NR reception told me 6 cleaners are in operation at any one time on Leeds station.

If that's the case, 4 of them are hiding in the toilets!

I'm not sure how it works but in my humble and admittedly non-expert opinion you need the following in Leeds station;

1 cleaner just doing the main concourse and outside the front of the station
1 cleaner just doing the Wellington Quarter concourse and rear entrances
1 cleaner just doing platforms 1-5
1 cleaner just doing platforms 6-11
1 cleaner just doing platforms 12-15
1 cleaner just doing platforms 16-17 and footbridge

Maybe then it would run smoothly.

of course you do :roll: You like in could cuckoo land and are like a broken record.

Leeds was fine last week when I was there and I will check back tomorrow when I cam there again. Guess what? It will be fine then.