Jarvis in Administration

[Tom B]

He should be able to PM/reply to PMs now.

 

[royaloak]

thank you Tom that is very kind.

 

[ivanhoe]

Always a great shame when jobs are lost . Long Term maintenance is always the first to be cut as it is the easiest. Unfortunately, it increases the costs in the long term but that will be somebody else, s problem in the future. I speak as an Accountant in the University sector rather than the Rail Industry, but the issues of maintenance , whether it be buildings or infrastructure, tend to treated as the balancing item on a year to year basis when budgets are put together each year.

 

[6Z09]

1100 redundant and unlikley to get this months wages!!
Sorry state of the industry ,but Network Rail claim record investment,pay directors bonus and Bob Crow branded a dinasaur by media!

 

[Metroland]

Perhaps they will sack some of the striking workers and re-employ Jarvis people?

 

[Wyvern]

What difference would that make?

 

[whoshotjimmi]

And you know this to be true because ????????

....they have gone into administration......

As to the above question of what difference it would make, at least you would get a workforce who know how tough life is when they lose their job and are desperate to actually work to earn a living.

 

[The Planner]

I bet Freighliner and probably DBS are waiting in the wings to nab the Fastline traffic, even though DBS gave up the Daw Mill flows that Fastline took over.

 

[hughesfowler]

It appears that everybody is blaming the collapse of jarvis on the rsil industry alone. Jarvis were not only involved in the rail industry. They had a very large involvement in the construction industry which has of course suffered substantially in the recession.

 

[ladydsm]

I bet Freighliner and probably DBS are waiting in the wings to nab the Fastline traffic, even though DBS gave up the Daw Mill flows that Fastline took over.

Or even those nice people from colas freight

 

[Old Timer]

....they have gone into administration......

As to the above question of what difference it would make, at least you would get a workforce who know how tough life is when they lose their job and are desperate to actually work to earn a living.

You really do talk crap don't you.

You have never worked for Jarvis, you know nothing about how they operated, how the treated their staff, frankly what you know could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Yet you come on here with supercillious comments about a situation which affects an awful of friends and colleagues of mine.

Politeness causes me to refrain form saying any more.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

You really do talk crap don't you.

You have never worked for Jarvis, you know nothing about how they operated, how the treated their staff, frankly what you know could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Yet you come on here with supercillious comments about a situation which affects an awful of friends and colleagues of mine.

Politeness causes me to refrain form saying any more.

If your costs are more than your incomings, you are going to lose money. And if you lose money, you are not going to succeed.

As for your friends, I feel for them - I really do. I have faced redundancy myself and it is not very nice. Personally, I did something about it to enable me to have a backup if/when it happened. In the end, I was ok. But colleagues of mine were not. Those redundancies were not made due to the business being in trouble - the business was doing absolutely fine - it was just to offload and tidy up the unprofitable parts. An excellent, if not ruthless, piece of business.

As for Jarvis, I reiterate. Badly managed, poor business model, administration, the end.

 

[Old Timer]

As for Jarvis, I reiterate. Badly managed, poor business model, administration, the end.

If you knew even diddly squat, you would know that Jarvis had long term Contracts with Network Rail, and have been constantly assured that the work specified as available in those Contracts would be honoured.

They were not.

Every other major Infrastructure Contractor is in the same position, and are making staff redundant by the coach load. Some very big names are in trouble.

I presume you include all the really big contracting companies as badly managed too :roll:

To re-iterate, I work in the Industry, I also know what is going on and how Jarvis have performed, and I know how Network Rail are behaving.

You neither work in the Industry nor have a clue about what is happening right now.

Your comments are neither informed nor welcome.

 

[royaloak]

at least you would get a workforce who know how tough life is when they lose their job and are desperate to actually work to earn a living.

so you are basically advocating slave labour then, do as I say or you will be sacked! Nice.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

so you are basically advocating slave labour then, do as I say or you will be sacked! Nice.

That's kind of how it works when there are more people than jobs. No one is irreplaceable.

My comment is purely derived from the fact that there are people out there who would give their right arm to work at this moment in time - including the 1,100 or so staff who are to go at Jarvis.

The workers do not hold the power at this moment in time.

 

[WatcherZero]

Almost all of them will be rehired by rival companies to do the work that Jarvis was due to do.

 

[royaloak]

Oh thats alright then, but the fact that NR isnt having much work done, or paying for the stuff that has been done already isnt a problem for the infra-co's left is it!

 

[Old Timer]

Almost all of them will be rehired by rival companies to do the work that Jarvis was due to do.

Errrr NO. I don't know who told you that but it is wrong.

Network Rail have decimated the renewals workbank in totality, which means that for the past year ALL the Infrastructure Contractors have been carrying staff who have no work. The point has already been reached where considerable numbers of people have already been made redundant and many, many more have been warned that their jobs under threat.

Balfour Beatty and Babcock Rail, who are likely to take on the Jarvis work, are themselves shedding staff because of the reduced workbank they have. The extra Jarvis work just means that it will secure employment for their existing staff, with a small number of "top-up" staff coming in from Jarvis.

The view that 1100 will just TUPE over is a fallacy.

A further fallacy is that Network Rail will enagage them via TUPE. NR pay substantially lower rates, and the terms and conditions of employment are dramatically worse than Jarvis's.

If anything, NR will let them apply for jobs on the open market, but at a much lower level package than they have now. We don't hold ouit much hope however as NR favour the use of el-cheapo labourers provided by cost-cutting labour supply agencies over professional Infrastructure Contractotrs using experienced track renewals staff.

Jarvis have some very, very good people and what is being done is nothing less than a premeditated and vindictive act by an organisation which has failed at all levels.

 

[6Z09]

Old Timers posts are the facts of how it is in the industry right now .
I say this as an EX industry employee of thirty years
The supermarkets are full of experienced railworkers stacking shelves and gathering trolleys! All Part time jobs as well!!!

 

[fsmr]

Old Timers posts are the facts of how it is in the industry right now .
I say this as an EX industry employee of thirty years
The supermarkets are full of experienced railworkers stacking shelves and gathering trolleys! All Part time jobs as well!!!

hate to say this guys but this has been happening in industry for some years just the same
British engineering companies are loosing out to eastern european companies and skills lost in industrial electrical, pipeline welding and now even software programers from India
All these will do the job for a much cheaper wage, sit around on site for hours on waiting time without pay, and dont want a hotel as they will kip in their car
A cynic would say NWR have made a perfect storm. Anyone not wanting their T&C changed can be replaced easily today

 

[WatcherZero]

Errrr NO. I don't know who told you that but it is wrong.

Network Rail have decimated the renewals workbank in totality, which means that for the past year ALL the Infrastructure Contractors have been carrying staff who have no work. The point has already been reached where considerable numbers of people have already been made redundant and many, many more have been warned that their jobs under threat.

Balfour Beatty and Babcock Rail, who are likely to take on the Jarvis work, are themselves shedding staff because of the reduced workbank they have. The extra Jarvis work just means that it will secure employment for their existing staff, with a small number of "top-up" staff coming in from Jarvis.

The view that 1100 will just TUPE over is a fallacy.

A further fallacy is that Network Rail will enagage them via TUPE. NR pay substantially lower rates, and the terms and conditions of employment are dramatically worse than Jarvis's.

If anything, NR will let them apply for jobs on the open market, but at a much lower level package than they have now. We don't hold ouit much hope however as NR favour the use of el-cheapo labourers provided by cost-cutting labour supply agencies over professional Infrastructure Contractotrs using experienced track renewals staff.

Jarvis have some very, very good people and what is being done is nothing less than a premeditated and vindictive act by an organisation which has failed at all levels.

Its my understanding 800 are to be approached by other firms.

 

[68000]

A mate of mine was told yesterday and they were up in Shettleston getting their gear and anything else they can get their hands on as they are not getting pay that is owed.

 

[Old Timer]

Its my understanding 800 are to be approached by other firms.

To do what ?

Most Jarvis people are settled along the route and have families. Transferring across the Country is not necessarily an option for most of them.

Who will employ them ? - All the Infrastructure Contractors are making staff redundant, so why should they pay to make their staff redundant and then employ Jarvis staff ? In any case the work is along the route and only on or maybe two Contractors will pick the former Jarvis contract up.

As I said before the workbank is decimated, which is why there is no work for the majority of staff, and why Jarvis went into administration in the frist place.

The labour agencies have hundreds of people themselves sitting out work, mosty happy to work for far less than the Jarvis people. NR only want cheap not skilled labour so why would an agency pay top money when they can pay peanuts ? In any case they would then cost the same as the major Infrastructure Contractors which is what NR are on course to bring down.

 

[Metroland]

hate to say this guys but this has been happening in industry for some years just the same
British engineering companies are loosing out to eastern european companies and skills lost in industrial electrical, pipeline welding and now even software programers from India
All these will do the job for a much cheaper wage, sit around on site for hours on waiting time without pay, and dont want a hotel as they will kip in their car
A cynic would say NWR have made a perfect storm. Anyone not wanting their T&C changed can be replaced easily today

Ah yes, the race to the bottom of global capitalism, where the cheapest always wins.

 

[ladydsm]

what a gift for on track machine firms lots of cheap labour all coming cap in hand for a job so look out if you work for these firms and your face dosent fit because theres lots of guys out there willing to do the hours and contracts you dont want to do, a managers dream now wheres my whip.

 

[sidcowens10]

It's around 2000 Jarvis/Fastline staff that have faced the boot, none of which will get any redundancy money. 450 of us went last May/June, the 450 of us were getting our redundancy money "drip fed" over 4 weekly periods, some of my mates were due a payment today, they havn't had it. It's not just Jarvis staff who suffer, the supply chain gets affected right down to the people who supply the ppe.
I have worked at some big companies over the past 16 years and they have all gone under. Rover Longbridge. Metro Cammell Birmingham and now Jarvis York.
Im giving this country 2 more years then i'm on my bike, we have become a country that no longer takes pride in what it produces.

Anyway im going to do my snap, got a shift in the morning. Im just a weekend railway warrior now!
Take care all and lets stop the bitching on here people!

 

[ladydsm]

Sid you seem to be a jinx .

 

[Sid Vicious]

Errrr NO. I don't know who told you that but it is wrong.

Network Rail have decimated the renewals workbank in totality, which means that for the past year ALL the Infrastructure Contractors have been carrying staff who have no work. The point has already been reached where considerable numbers of people have already been made redundant and many, many more have been warned that their jobs under threat.

Balfour Beatty and Babcock Rail, who are likely to take on the Jarvis work, are themselves shedding staff because of the reduced workbank they have. The extra Jarvis work just means that it will secure employment for their existing staff, with a small number of "top-up" staff coming in from Jarvis.

The view that 1100 will just TUPE over is a fallacy.

A further fallacy is that Network Rail will enagage them via TUPE. NR pay substantially lower rates, and the terms and conditions of employment are dramatically worse than Jarvis's.

If anything, NR will let them apply for jobs on the open market, but at a much lower level package than they have now. We don't hold ouit much hope however as NR favour the use of el-cheapo labourers provided by cost-cutting labour supply agencies over professional Infrastructure Contractotrs using experienced track renewals staff.

Jarvis have some very, very good people and what is being done is nothing less than a premeditated and vindictive act by an organisation which has failed at all levels.

Old Timer knows what he's talking about, spot on every time. Just like to add my take on things. Just read various comments on the recent demise of Jarvis Rail, the majority if not all of the comments pointing the finger at Network Rail senior management were both informed and articulate. I have worked in the industry for nearly 20 years for various companies. NWR currently are intend on destroying the industry with their deplorable tactics and attitude. I read that Simon Kirby on hearing of Jarvis entering administration told the media that there was plenty of work available and investment in the railway was at a all time high. If this is the case surely the likes of Carillion, Colas, Babcock, Balfours etc etc would not have laid off numerous staff over the last 18 months. NWR do not care about their own staff never mind mere ‘sub contractors’. I would not like to guess how many people within the industry, together with suppliers have lost their jobs due to the cut backs in track renewals and project work. NWR appear to see the agency labour suppliers as the way forward, they have no interest on long term investment by giving the track renewal / project suppliers long term contracts which intern allows them to invest in people. NWR have been blinded by the balance sheet. Presently we are in the bust phase of things after numerous years of boom, mainly due to the joke of the WCML up grade. Surely sustained investment at a decent level would keep a regular workforce in work, and also keep out the cowboys, carpet fitters and candle stick makers that in recent years jumped in and earned a fortune on the WCML upgrade. Boom and bust does not work, surely the fiasco at Rugby demonstrated this when NWR overstretched themselves with two many schemes running at once. How many hours are wasted by staff running up and down the motorways, we have Scottish lads working in London, Londoners working in Wales and Welsh lads probably working in Glasgow. In years gone by local staff did local work, and they genuinely cared. In today’s industry most of the agency staff could not care less as they will probably be 200 miles away next weekend or maybe back to working in the butchers shop. The industry needs a complete shake up with power taken away from these Clowns (no offence if any clowns read this), they have not got a clue and could not run a bath never mind a railway. I have not got all the answers, but it is clear this highly paid bunch have less.

 

[ladydsm]

Sid you are right about the traveling i know of a certain otm company that send otm operators from the south coast to anglia london guys to the west country midland guys to the north east etc my opion and my opion only is that colas will work north of birmingham balfours south of birmingham both companys will come in line with pay and conditions then network rail will take them in house or so my crystal ball predicts.

 

[sidcowens10]

Sid you are right about the traveling i know of a certain otm company that send otm operators from the south coast to anglia london guys to the west country midland guys to the north east etc my opion and my opion only is that colas will work north of birmingham balfours south of birmingham both companys will come in line with pay and conditions then network rail will take them in house or so my crystal ball predicts.

I know where you are coming from!
Network Rail (Wycombe) use Vital Rail (Stafford) to lookout for them!
It's been like this for years. I reckon hundreds of thousands of pounds in fuel has been wasted in journeys over the years, these company managers can't see beyond the end of their bonus payslips and manage the flippin network properly!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

hate to say this guys but this has been happening in industry for some years just the same
British engineering companies are loosing out to eastern european companies and skills lost in industrial electrical, pipeline welding and now even software programers from India
All these will do the job for a much cheaper wage, sit around on site for hours on waiting time without pay, and dont want a hotel as they will kip in their car
A cynic would say NWR have made a perfect storm. Anyone not wanting their T&C changed can be replaced easily today

Agree with you all the way. There is work out there, it's just that the wheels have fallen off the gravy train now and the guys with their feet well and truly under the table at NWR need to take stock. Contractors will work for 25% less just to be in work. NWR have caught on to this. However, you cannot replace the experience and know how of some of the old chargemen. Saftey of the line will be at jepody if a load of glasgow rangers start playing about with the pway.
Excuse any spelling mistakes it's friday night and im getting ready for wembley tomorrow by drinking a few light ales.
Come on you villa boys!