If you had the money necessary, which 5 lines would you electrify?

[YorkshireBear]

Personally:

1) Bidston-Wrexham DC
2) Helsby-Ellesmere Port DC (maybe Helsby-Chester with a curve so Liverpool-Chester via ELP - diversionary)
3) Kirkby-Wigan
4) Southport-Wigan
5) Ormskirk-Preston

Surely these projects would:

a) release DMUs (upwards of 10)
b) expand Merseyrail journey oppertunities
c) improve timetables
d) environmental benefits

i suggested these as one in mine i agree completely Especially in ym eyes the ellsmere port one as not like the other half is served well by diesel!

 

[Ivo]

GOBLIN is about more than just Passenger services- at the moment, electric freight has to go via Stratford to the NLL; only diesels can leave at Barking.

Plus, much of it has wires already, to completely electrify requires several short infills.

Didn't Boris decline because of all the viaducts on the line?

 

[DarloRich]

My 5:

1) Liverpool - Hull (I would doHunts Cross to Trafford Park, Guide Bridge to Colton Junction & Hazel Grove to Hull Via Sheffield and Doncaster)
2) Edinburgh - Inverness/Aberdeen
3) MML
4) GWML
5) Fill in all the stupid short non electrified sections like Hambleton Junction to Leeds!

Actually i would do Bristol-Birmingham-Derby then do all the fill in bits with what was left!

 

[Busterfridge]

My 5 to be electrified

1) GWML
2) MML
3) Glasgow/edinburgh - Inverness - Aberdeen
4) Crewe - Holyhead
5) Cumbrian coast line, Carnforth - whitehaven - carlisle ( because i live in here)

 

[prod_pep]

The following would be mine:

1. Gospel Oak - Barking
2. Glasgow Central - Paisley Canal
3. Southport - Wigan
4. London Paddington - Oxford
5. Liverpool - York via Manchester Piccadilly

 

[anthony263]

My top 5 would be:

1.) Severn Tunnel Jct/Swindon/Bristol Parkway - Gloucester -Birmingham.

2.) Cardiff Valley Lines network including Maesteg & Ebbw Vale branches as well as cardiff - Swansea.

3.) Crewe - Holyhead

4.) Wolverhampton - Chester/Crewe Via Shrewsbury & Wrexham

5.) Gospel Oak - Barking (free up the class 172's to go to FGW for use on local services around Exeter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Additional option is would choose are:

1.) Oxford - Coventry
2.) Reading - Bassingstoke ( Allows dual voltage electric trains to work Southampton & Bournmouth - Manchester & leeds)

3.) Bassingstoke - Exeter St Davids (frees up some class 158/159's to go to FGW & East midlands trains)

4.) Oxford - Moreton - Worcester - Hereford (includes link to Birmingham New St) to allow Hereford - Birmingham services to be operated by EMU's

 

[bluenoxid]

Didn't Boris decline because of all the viaducts on the line?

It's the cost per mile, which is huge compared to an equivalent route. The infrastructure being the main contributor.

 

[tbtc]

It's the cost per mile, which is huge compared to an equivalent route. The infrastructure being the main contributor.

Its about a dozen miles (with electrification at the Gospel Oak end, electrification for a stretch around Tottenham and electrification at the Barking end).

If they can electrify the Seven Tunnel line (and Box Hill and all the other tunnels/ viaducts on the GWML which are being planned) then I'm surprised this stretch of urban London is too complicated to justify.

 

[OxtedL]

Sorry to be off message - but those who advocate Hurst Green-Uckfield and Ashford-Hastings are barking up the wrong tree. Yes it removes an 'island' of diesel operation, and yes that would save some maintenance cost at Selhurst, but it would cost an awful lot of cash to save 44 vehicles worth of incremental maintenance and fuel cost. Especially as a good few of them sit around doing nothing for most of the day. If there is a financial case for this then presumably the bidders for the next South Central franchise will suggest it.

(As I understand it) Southern has 6 * 4-car and 10 * 2-car.
During the off peak, 3 * 4 car run LBG <> UCK, and 4 * 2-car run marshlink (+1 for rye shuttle later).
Most of the rest does just the rush hour, then sits around (you can see them at Selhurst in the sidings).

However, ask anyone who travels on the uckfield line during the rush hour, and they will say its all needed. There is very little room to stand in both the AM and some PM peaks (depending which way).

You could probably make much better use of stock through electrification (?Thameslink). The Uckfield particularly has seen a huge amount of growth since the 171s, and there ought to now be at least a small case for electrification.

However there is limited point in electrifying Uckfield w/o Marshlink (a different ball game with High Speed but limited other potential) as it reduces the benefits.

Given Wrexham and the Wirral, I doubt it will happen, but it is going to be needed at some point.

We're supposed to be getting 10-cars down the Uckfield soon - ought to be fun! Where's it coming from?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh yeah, um.....

Uckfield + Marshlink + North Downs + GOB

Also good to see some cross country. Maybe finish Manchester to Bournemouth.

Could you stick a 3rd rail shoe on these mysterious voyager panto cars?

 

[JohnCarlson]

1) Leamside Line.
2) the TPE services.
3) ECML TO Aberdeen.
4) ECML to Hull
5) Cardiff Valley Lines

 

[Bald Rick]

Its about a dozen miles (with electrification at the Gospel Oak end, electrification for a stretch around Tottenham and electrification at the Barking end).

If they can electrify the Seven Tunnel line (and Box Hill and all the other tunnels/ viaducts on the GWML which are being planned) then I'm surprised this stretch of urban London is too complicated to justify.

£40m. Lots of viaduct (most of which is right next to dense housing), one very awkward tunnel (plus 2 easier ones) a new grid supply point and a lot of bridges to clear. Plus it needs to be separated electrically from all the lines it crosses, and that is quite complex. You need to save an awful lot of diesel and engine maintenance cost to justify that capital outlay, and TfL couldn't get close.

The freight argument is a red herring too, at least at present. Only about 4 trains a day off the LTS have electric haulage. As and when London Gateway port opens, and if that is electrified (no plans to do so) then the freight benefit may improve. That's assuming there are enough electric locos left by then!

 

[Mojo]

1. Westerleigh Junction via and avoiding Gloucester to Barnt Green (or Bromsgrove for when the Cross-city gets extended)
2. Birmingham New Street to Doncaster and South Kirkby Junction
3. Derby via Nottingham to Grantham
4. Reading to Amazingstoke
5. Bristol to Plymouth

 

[me123]

1. Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High (and diversions)
2. Glasgow & Edinburgh - Aberdeen (and diversions)
3. Transpennine Express Routes
4. Plymouth & Swansea - London Paddington
5. Plymouth - York (in conjunction with the above)

 

[chris89]

1) GWML
2) Wolverhampton to at least Shrewsbury
3) Snow Hill lines at least from Kidderminster to London
4) Birmingham New Street - Doncaster lines
5) Edinburgh - Glasgow Queen Street Via Falkirk High.

Chris

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Given all the electrification going on and the Voyagers becoming bi-mode, I think I'd electrify.

1) Bedford-Derby/Nottingham-Sheffield-Fitzwilliam (including the Corby branch)
2) Cardiff/Bristol-Birmingham-Derby-Nottingham-Grantham
3) Birmingham-Leicester-Peterborough-Ely/avoiding line-Norwich
4) Guide Bridge/Manchester Victoria-Stalybridge-Huddersfield-Leeds-Hull/York*
5) Stockport-Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull

(* I'm not sure if Leeds-York is electrified)

I think this would initially release:

FTPE - 51x185, 9x170 (with Middlesborough and Scarborough services cut back and replaced by 'local' services)
XC - 29x170
EMT - 12x158, 27x222, 13xHST
NXEA - 3x170
Northern - 5x158 (to be used on other Northern services)
Hull Trains - 4x180s

I would also add to the Voyager PMS order an order for 17 Meridian PMS coaches and reform the 222 fleet to 7x10-car, 10x7-car, 10x2-car. and use the first 17 to replace the 221s Virgin use for EUS-CTR/HHD and BHM-GLC/EDB which frees up 20/21x221 for Cross Country, along with some HSTs to boost capacity.

The 41x170 now available could go to Scotrail to replace the remaining 158s and the 185s to SWT to replace the 11x158s and 30x159s.

Giving a spare fleet of 30x159, 63x158, 4x180 and 10x222s (2-car) to allow further cascades or run as additional stock. There may be other stock cascades for local routes, but it is likely the pacers could all be retired.

With EC and FGW apparently getting IEP, there would be a lot of spare HSTs, but the 30x225 sets could move over to the MML, just a shame tilt isn't an easy upgrade for them now.

 

[rail-britain]

1. Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High (and diversions)

Work has already started on this...
Groundwork is well underway at Carmuirs / Bonnybridge and Condorrat

 

[LE Greys]

Not sure if these count as "lines", but with electrification I always think of "schemes" and "networks", because doing all lines connecting into a network, like they did with the WCML, is the best way to do things.

1. MML Bedford-Nottingham/Derby-Sheffield-Leeds + branches (obviously)
2. Stowmarket/Norwich-Ely-Peterborough-Leicester-Nuneaton-Birmingham + branches (links up all current schemes and provides for an electric XC and freight route)
3. Grantham-Nottingham-Derby-Tamworth-Birmingham + branches (electric cross-country/freight route)
4. Hull-Doncaster-Sheffield-Stockport + branches (finish off South Yorkshire TPE and South TPX Norwich-Liverpool and link current Liverpool-Manchester scheme to ECML)
5. Middlesbrough-York/Selby-Leeds-Manchester + branches (really a "bits & pieces" scheme to finish off West Yorkshire PTE as well as North TPX)

This is partly a campaign to eliminate Pacers. By introducing loads of new EMUs in Yorkshire, sufficient Sprinters should be released to cascade to FGW to replace all of them down there, and northwards in Tyne and Wear. This also releases a lot of 185s, to go to other places where they can run on main line semi-fasts. Possibly FGW for South Devon and Cornwall, Scotrail for Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen/Inverness, Northern for Leeds/Bradford-Carlisle or XC for the second-string services (those that don't use EMUs). This would also release a lot of XC Turbostars for areas where SP-limited 100 mph units would be useful, like the rest of the former Alphaline area (Cardiff-Portsmouth) and Scotland (to replace 158s which can go to anywhere where 150s work 100-mile plus runs). I haven't done anything in the Western Region, but that would mean doing lots of extra lines (Greenford, Thames Valley branches, Oxford, Cheltenham, Bath-Westbury-Salisbury, Trowbridge-Chippenham, Severn Beach, Valley Lines, Torbay, Exmouth, Barnstaple, Bere Alston, Cornwall branches) and use up all of my five and more.

We also get a lot of electric freight options, particularly to take over all the Freightliners to Ipswich (except the docks themselves, for obvious reasons) and a lot of the MGRs around the Midlands and North East. There would be plenty of options to run right through to the WCML, giving access to Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester. I wanted to fill in Gospel Oak-Barking, but have a feeling that will happen anyway before long.

Not sure if I am cheating by including branches, but the idea is to avoid having to come back and do them at a later date.

 

[sprinterguy]

Like several others in this thread, a lot of what I would want to do concerns strategic packages of lines rather than single routes, as there’d be a much better Benefit-Cost Ratio from electrifying a set of lines than a single “core” one. Can I get away with that? This admittedly includes projects that have been announced for real but are not yet operational/under construction.

1. Midland Main Line: All the way through Sheffield (also wire the Erewash valley as a diversionary route) to Doncaster and to Fitzwilliam (Would this allow Northern to run a Leeds to Sheffield EMU service, releasing a few Pacers?). New IEP electric trains for the MML Intercity services, and Thameslink extended out to Leicester via Corby and Melton Mowbray to cut down the number of stops out of MML fast services on the southern section of the route. Birmingham to Derby would be good as part of this scheme as well, to give a continuous Cross country electrified route from the ECML to the WCML.

2. Not a single line, but a strategic package of lines: The Scottish Central Belt: Edinburgh-Glasgow, Carmuirs Junctions to Perth and Dundee, the Fife Circle etc. Scotrail DMU fleet is consolidated as suggested by others to consist of 156s and 170s. Lots of lovely 158s cascaded to England and Wales.

3. The Cardiff Valley lines, using refurbed three carriage 315s in the interim, until funds for new trains are forthcoming. Pacers withdrawn and Sprinters cascaded.

4. Great Western and South Wales: London Paddington to Oxford, Newbury, Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea. IEP electric trains introduced, HSTs replaced on the South West services by cascaded MML Meridians. FGW 165s and 166s move to suitable routes elsewhere, starting with Cardiff to Portsmouth.

5. Lancashire electrification with Crewe to Chester added on to the scheme.

6. Oh hell I’ve gone over my limit, but I really really want to say the Southern diesel island that is the Oxted lines. Nice little fleet of 171s to be shifted somewhere else if that was done.

If I could have all that done and dusted by the end of this decade, I’d be a happy bunny, and we’d be a lot closer to getting rid of Pacers through direct replacement and by cascade of displaced Sprinters, as well as finally getting close to withdrawing the HSTs (As much as I like them they’ll have to go eventually).

 

[DarloRich]

Given all the electrification going on and the Voyagers becoming bi-mode, I think I'd electrify.

1) Bedford-Derby/Nottingham-Sheffield-Fitzwilliam (including the Corby branch)
2) Cardiff/Bristol-Birmingham-Derby-Nottingham-Grantham
3) Birmingham-Leicester-Peterborough-Ely/avoiding line-Norwich
4) Guide Bridge/Manchester Victoria-Stalybridge-Huddersfield-Leeds-Hull/York*
5) Stockport-Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull

(* I'm not sure if Leeds-York is electrified)

I think this would initially release:

FTPE - 51x185, 9x170 (with Middlesborough and Scarborough services cut back and replaced by 'local' services)
XC - 29x170
EMT - 12x158, 27x222, 13xHST
NXEA - 3x170
Northern - 5x158 (to be used on other Northern services)
Hull Trains - 4x180s

I would also add to the Voyager PMS order an order for 17 Meridian PMS coaches and reform the 222 fleet to 7x10-car, 10x7-car, 10x2-car. and use the first 17 to replace the 221s Virgin use for EUS-CTR/HHD and BHM-GLC/EDB which frees up 20/21x221 for Cross Country, along with some HSTs to boost capacity.

The 41x170 now available could go to Scotrail to replace the remaining 158s and the 185s to SWT to replace the 11x158s and 30x159s.

Giving a spare fleet of 30x159, 63x158, 4x180 and 10x222s (2-car) to allow further cascades or run as additional stock. There may be other stock cascades for local routes, but it is likely the pacers could all be retired.

With EC and FGW apparently getting IEP, there would be a lot of spare HSTs, but the 30x225 sets could move over to the MML, just a shame tilt isn't an easy upgrade for them now.

Why would you cut back Middlesbrough and Scarborough services, both of which are very well loaded? It wouldnt cost that much more to run wires to Scarborough from York or Middlesbrough from Northallerton and/or Darlington (and anyway money is no object!)

You would do Hull but not the other extremities of the TPE Network? I would bung on some extra wiries on the NW side of the TPE network ato. I would even do Windermere and Barrow so that TPE could have a standard fleet. I would also do the south TPE route from Stockport-Sheffield-Doncaster-Cleethorpes.


Also why would you want 2 car 222 units? Is that not a bit of a waste of an intercity unit?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Because the op asked for five lines and I thought I was pushing the limits a little. Besides which, the Leeds-Harrogate-York services could extend to cover one and there must be another local service for the other.. Is it Leeds/York to Middlesborough/Scarborough that is well used, or Manchester-Middlesborough/Scarborough? I suppose whilst all that knittting is being strung up, a bit more wouldn't hurt that much.

I don't want 2-car 222s particularly, but the use of the centre coaches elsewhere leaves only the driving cars. In practice 2-car 222s are useless, too small for intercity runs, but not suitable for locals either. I suppose PMS coaches could be built, and maybe some TSOs, with the PMS orders to bring them up to 4 or 5 car units, but that is a lot of money for units which may not have anywhere to go. In a world where there is a limit on Diesel stock, a unit, no matter how unsuitable, is still better than none. Perhaps they could be used as rescue units for the West Coast, instead of the 57/3s?

 

[LE Greys]

Just realised I forgot Scarborough and Cleethorpes in my TPX schemes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because the op asked for five lines and I thought I was pushing the limits a little. Besides which, the Leeds-Harrogate-York services could extend to cover one and there must be another local service for the other.. Is it Leeds/York to Middlesborough/Scarborough that is well used, or Manchester-Middlesborough/Scarborough? I suppose whilst all that knittting is being strung up, a bit more wouldn't hurt that much.

I don't want 2-car 222s particularly, but the use of the centre coaches elsewhere leaves only the driving cars. In practice 2-car 222s are useless, too small for intercity runs, but not suitable for locals either. I suppose PMS coaches could be built, and maybe some TSOs, with the PMS orders to bring them up to 4 or 5 car units, but that is a lot of money for units which may not have anywhere to go. In a world where there is a limit on Diesel stock, a unit, no matter how unsuitable, is still better than none. Perhaps they could be used as rescue units for the West Coast, instead of the 57/3s?

2-car intercity units would work if they had gangways, there used to be 2-car 309s after all, but I prefer the idea of extending all sets progressively. Think I'd go for 4-car minimum length, though.

The real question would be what to do with the units. One possibility is to increase the stock for XC, so they could cascade the longer units there, allowing the shorter Voyagers to displace 170s (so NE-SW would be 6/7/8-car whilst Cardiff-Nottingham would get 4-car Voyagers).

The other question is whether to include Matlock and Burton-on-Trent in the MML scheme (I think everyone agrees it should go all the way to Doncaster and Fitzwilliam). Bletchley-Bedford might count as part of the MML as well, giving a link for freight coming up from Wembley and replacing a small batch of DMUs. Route upgrades might be necessary in places as well, especially for Sprinter routes, such as Peterborough-Norwich. That won't be a bad thing, freight can go faster as well.

 

[me123]

Work has already started on this...
Groundwork is well underway at Carmuirs / Bonnybridge and Condorrat

I know, but it's definitely one of the biggest candidates. We all know of the benefits that it will bring.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Interesting that I am the only person ( so far ) who has put the S&C on the list...

 

[Rhydgaled]

It is very hard to pick just 5, without doing what some have and grouping the whole GWML network as 1 line, as there are so many very worthwhile routes.

Anyway, I think I'd add the following routes to the currently announced plans (nicking some ideas from others):

1. GWML Swansea - Swindon via Cheltenham and Bristol TM to Weston-Super-Mare, plus the Maesteg and Ebbw Vale valleys (others had the whole GWML to Swansea, Hereford and Plymouth as one route, so I think I get away with this).
2. London Marylebone - Birmingham (Chiltern Line)
3. Crewe-Holyhead & Llandudno Junction - Llandudno
4. Basingstoke-Exeter
5. Figure of 6 around Romsey

Then, as far as INTERCITY services are concerned, I would:

• Power-door fit all mark 3 stock
• Replace all East Coast's stock with a new fleet of IEP electrics*
• Life-extend some 47s or 57s and fit them with IC225 compatible TDM equipment
• Fit IC225s with ERTMS and, if possible, regenerative breaking, and introduce them on:
  • 1tph Paddington - Reading - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central - Swansea (1-3 trains per day extending to Carmarthen/Pembroke Dock**)
  • 1tph Paddington - Reading - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads extending to Weston-Super-Mare as required***
  • If that doesn't use all the 225s then also 1tph Temple Meads to Paddington via bath omitting Swindon and Didcot or the Cheltenham service (also omiting Didcot), or both.
• Introduce IEP electrics on:
  • Paddington - Oxford
  • Paddington - Bath - Bristol TM****
  • 1tph Paddington - Swansea****
• Retain IC125s on:
  • Paddington - Hereford
  • Paddington - Worcester
  • Paddington - Great Malvern
  • Paddington - Taunton (and beyond)
• Replace 67s on Chiltern's push-pull services with 90s, you could then use the 67s on the East Coast's IEP drags.
• Replace all Virgin Voyagers to Holyhead and re-introduce direct Llandudno - Euston services*****
• Build a bunch of EPCs (Electric Power Cars) for Voyagers and Meridians working semi-electrified routes. The EPCs would just be the pantograph cars mentioned by others, but some might have 3rd rail shoes.
• Rip the diesel engines out of any Voyagers working completly electrified routes, drain their fuel tanks and add an EPC.
• Replace the Holyhead - Cardiff service with 3-5 trains per day using 2+5 IC125 sets. I think 43s have a lower axle weight and therefore might be allowed to go quicker than a 67 via Wrexham.

As for other services, one thing that might be a good idea is to construct a new mark 3 based dual-power EMU formed of between 2 and 4 mark 3 trailers from withdrawn IC125 sets sandwidched between new-build driving cars which would look like the end cars of a 5-WES. I'll call this the m3-EMU. I would have suggested using class 92s on push-pull trains, but wiki says they can only manage 87mph.

Wales & West:

• Start a roll-out of 3-car class 377s on the ValleyLines network, initally on hourly all-stations services from Swansea to Cheltenham Spa, Maesteg to Ebbw Vale Parkway and Ebbw Vale Parkway to Newport.
• The 150s and 153s the 377s release will go to keep pacers confined to routes through Cardiff Queen Street (and so away from the Pembroke Dock and other longer distance services).
• Reorganisation of services so that only the 3-5 INTERCITY services from Cardiff are diesel under the wires along the north Wales coast. That means all non-IC trains departing Holyhead and Llandudno would be EMUs******. The services would be Manchester - Holyhead, Manchester - Llandudno and Birmingham - Holyhead (via Crewe rather than via Wrexham at present). Trains headed to Chester from Wrexham would either go to Manchester or terminate at Chester. The shorter trips should see some 175s released.
• 2-car ex SWT 158s go to lengthen Portsmouth - Cardiff services to 4-car. These trains would split at Cardiff, with a single 2-car unit continuing to Carmarthen (via the Swansea District Line) calling at Bridgend and Llanelli only. Every other hour this unit would also carry on to Fishguard & Goodwick, calling only at Whitland, with 1 extention per ferry to Fishguard Harbour.

Elsewhere:

• Free Portsmouth from the 450s they seem to hate so much by using m3-EMUs. The cascaded 450s would then release the 158s from the Lymington branch and figure of 6.
• New EMUs****** on the 159 routes (Waterloo - Exeter trains)
• Since Turbostars and Electrostars are a modular design, perhaps Chiltern's could be converted to electric power, but more likely send them up north to replace 150s which can then be used to withdraw pacers or limit them to short journeys. The problem with Chiltern is, are any of their units restricted to ex broad guage routes?
• If Pendos take over the North Wales Coast then maybe replace some XC 170 services with the Voyagers removed from Holyhead trains. Certainly Cardiff - Nottingham is far enough to warrant having doors in the right place. If not Voyagers, then the route should be taken over by 3-car 175s or maybe Northern's 180s.
• An earlier post suggests 5-car capacity is needed on the Liverpool-Nottingham. If this is true and the train would not divide on route I would suggest looking into using any withdrawn mark 3s that are not needed to make up the m3-EMUs for SWT as a push-pull service with TDM fitted 57s/47s and some mark 3s converted to DBSOs.
• That would allow for the 159s to casscade units, rather than just lengthening them. I think I would suggest:
  • 159s and 3-car 158s replacing busy 2-car 158 services on express routes
  • 2-car 158s then replacing pacers, 150s, 155s, 156s and crowded 153s on express routes
  • 150s, 155s and 156s then replacing 158s, pacers and crowded 153s on non-express routes
  • Repeat the above until everything is on the types of service it should be
  • Any remaining 150s introduced on new all-stations services
  • Any remaining 155s, 153s or 156s introduced on new rural (ie. low linespeed but a long distance between stations or overall) services (eg. Heart Of Wales line).
  • Any remaining 158s introduced on new express services
  • Any remaining pacers scrapped or sent for preservation if anyone feels like saving them

------------------------------------------------------------------

* These would be dragged over the Scottish diesel extensions by diesel locos. If Hull and Harrogate can be done with a drag too then do it. If it's too hard, transfer the service to Grand Central or Hull Trains and give them a few IC125s to run it.

** This would be achived by swapping the 91 for one of the TDM fitted 57s/47s - This means the 91s will be at the London end of the train, so Swansea depot can become a depot for the 91s. An EMU drag wouldn't work very well, because of the reversal needed at Carmarthen to reach Pembroke. Bi-mode IEP would be an enviromental disaster and the 26m coaches would probablly be out of loading guage on the Pembroke branch (if not west of Swansea).

*** In fact, if this is less than every hour it might be better to save on wires and just drag the train from Bristol, or swap the loco for one of the special 57s/47s at Parkway (doubt there'd be enough room to swap locos at Temple Meads).

**** Calling at all the stations they do at present (inc. Didcot for the services to Wales)

***** The stock would either be 9-car Pendolinos or, if that's too long, completlly de-dieseled Voyagers (rip the engines out and drain the fuel tanks)

****** These should be somthing like a shorter 5-WES (ie. corridor connections and doors in the right place are a must-have).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The next 5 routes I would pick would probablly be:

1. GWML Oxford - Hereford and Banbury, plus Reading to Basingstoke
2. GWML Reading - Penzance via Westbury (with new tilting trains to cut journey times)
3. Bristol - Birmingham-Derby-Nottingham-Grantham
4. Midland Main Line
5. The rest of the ValleyLines, plus Mersyrail extension to Wrexham Central

 

[OxtedL]

How would Romsey be done?

I would imagine that if Basingstoke to Exeter were to happen (laughs loudly) it would be AC. So maybe a DC/AC switchover at Romsey (saves doing two around the six)?

All hypothetical of course.

 

[tbtc]

I would imagine that if Basingstoke to Exeter were to happen (laughs loudly) it would be AC

If you did it'd free up the majority of the SWT DMUs.

158 = 11x 2 car = 22 coaches
159 = 30x 3 car = 90 coaches

= 112 coaches

You'd need a handful for the "six" route, of course, plus need to find an EMU for Lymington (and get FGW to use an additional unit from Salisbury to Bristol to replace the token SWT service to Bristol), but that'd be a hundred spare DMU coaches (plus make life a lot easier for SWT in terms of diagrams/ interworking/ splitting services etc).

Is there any logistical reason its not been done yet?

 

[OxtedL]

I think the MML, Berks and Hants, entire XC network and transpennine are probably more of a priority (another five in there I think! ). With only one short train per hour Salisbury to Exeter it isn't worth it, meaning as far as Salisbury also isn't. Maybe one day.

That being said, being single track a lot of the way must improve the case...?

 

[tbtc]

I think the MML, Berks and Hants, entire XC network and transpennine are probably more of a priority (another five in there I think! ). With only one short train per hour Salisbury to Exeter it isn't worth it, meaning as far as Salisbury also isn't. Maybe one day.

That being said, being single track a lot of the way must improve the case...?

The trouble with XC/TPE electrification is that they won't release many DMUs unless *every* branch is done. Whereas the 125(ish) miles from Basingstoke to Exeter would free up a hundred DMU coaches (one unit for FGW to cover the four/day SWT services from Salisbury to Bristol, three units for the Salisbury - Romsey service...).

In fact, bung on the forty (ish) miles from Salisbury to Bath and (once the GWML is electrified) you can run EMUs on:

• Cardiff to Portsmouth via Southampton
• Cardiff to Romsey via Southampton

...each hour with 319s (the Cardiff - Taunton service becomes a Bristol - Taunton DMU)

Around 165 miles of electrification (some single track), dozens of DMUs "saved", all Waterloo services are electric, the "Cardiff - Portsmouth" problem is solved... everyone wins?

 

[OxtedL]

Sold.

Still unlikely though.

Why not turn London Bridge electric while you're there

 

[tbtc]

Sold.

Still unlikely though.

Why not turn London Bridge electric while you're there

By doing the Marshlink & Oxted lines to free up forty four diesel coaches? (10x2 car + 6x 4car 171s)

Definitely! These are the kind of things we should be doing as a priority, rather than doing a little big here and a little bit there (leaving gaps)

ETA: Despite living in Yorkshire I am suggesting that these routes in the south are done as priorities because electrification should be done rationally (not just "I want the best for my town)