If you had the money necessary, which 5 lines would you electrify?

[NXEA!]

Just interested in what people think the 5 best candidates for electrification are. If you intend to contribute I'd find it interesting if you stated why, and what you would do with the surplus stock. I haven't started the thread so we can all criticise each other's idea's, just a general discussion. My 5 would be the following. I would get rid of the diesel islands in the South. I would electrify the Oxted-Uckfield, and Ashford-Hastings lines so Southern aren't stuck with a small fleet of 171's. I would also electrify the Basingstoke-Exeter section of the Exeter route from Waterloo and also the sections of the figure of 6 around Romsey which aren't electrified. This then releases the 41 DMU's from South West Trains. Finally I would electrify the North Downs which releases the 166's in use here to strengthening other FGW services. With the surplus stock I would send the 10 2-car 171's, re-fitted with BSI's to NXEA. This would then displace the 9 156's to Northern and EMT to boost capacity. With the 6 4-car 171's I would again re-fit the BSI's and send them to XC to add capacity on Nottingham-Cardiff and other routes worked by 3-car 170's which would displace the 6 3-car 170's onto 2-car duties, which would then enable strengthened services. The 41 DMU's from SWT would be cascaded as follows: 10 159's would go to EMT to boost capacity on the Liverpool-Nottingham section of that route, coupled to the 2 cars there. The 2 car's would then move onto 156 duties, with the 156's either strengthening or moving onto 153 duties such as Derby-Crewe, with the displaced 153's strengthening other services too. The other 20 159's I would send to Northern to displace 156's onto 150 duties, with the 150's covering Pacer duties, with the Pacer's then doubling up with other units to alleviate overcrowding. I would concentrate these 159's mainly in the North-West, as there are a lot of lines which need capacity around this area. Also, this allows comfort to be improved on a lot of services, and might hopefully put an end to Pacer's being put on runs they're not suitable for. With the 11 2-car SWT 158's, they would go to First Great Western to double up on Portsmouth services, and also to provide capacity around Bristol or Exeter. I know I haven't put forward any Northern schemes, but there aren't many 'Diesel Islands' I can think of, and this way, these franchises get a lot extra stock. Well, those are my 5, what are yours?

 

[shinkansen1966]

Just interested in what people think the 5 best candidates for electrification are. If you intend to contribute I'd find it interesting if you stated why, and what you would do with the surplus stock. I haven't started the thread so we can all criticise each other's idea's, just a general discussion. My 5 would be the following. I would get rid of the diesel islands in the South. I would electrify the Oxted-Uckfield, and Ashford-Hastings lines so Southern aren't stuck with a small fleet of 171's. I would also electrify the Basingstoke-Exeter section of the Exeter route from Waterloo and also the sections of the figure of 6 around Romsey which aren't electrified. This then releases the 41 DMU's from South West Trains. Finally I would electrify the North Downs which releases the 166's in use here to strengthening other FGW services. With the surplus stock I would send the 10 2-car 171's, re-fitted with BSI's to NXEA. This would then displace the 9 156's to Northern and EMT to boost capacity. With the 6 4-car 171's I would again re-fit the BSI's and send them to XC to add capacity on Nottingham-Cardiff and other routes worked by 3-car 170's which would displace the 6 3-car 170's onto 2-car duties, which would then enable strengthened services. The 41 DMU's from SWT would be cascaded as follows: 10 159's would go to EMT to boost capacity on the Liverpool-Nottingham section of that route, coupled to the 2 cars there. The 2 car's would then move onto 156 duties, with the 156's either strengthening or moving onto 153 duties such as Derby-Crewe, with the displaced 153's strengthening other services too. The other 20 159's I would send to Northern to displace 156's onto 150 duties, with the 150's covering Pacer duties, with the Pacer's then doubling up with other units to alleviate overcrowding. I would concentrate these 159's mainly in the North-West, as there are a lot of lines which need capacity around this area. Also, this allows comfort to be improved on a lot of services, and might hopefully put an end to Pacer's being put on runs they're not suitable for. With the 11 2-car SWT 158's, they would go to First Great Western to double up on Portsmouth services, and also to provide capacity around Bristol or Exeter. I know I haven't put forward any Northern schemes, but there aren't many 'Diesel Islands' I can think of, and this way, these franchises get a lot extra stock. Well, those are my 5, what are yours?

Wow.. that's one hell of message. For the future, you might want to put in some paragraph breaks. I was exhausted just reading it.

Anyhow....

In addition to those planned, I'd electrify any line with 4 or more diesel services per hour. Obvious candidates include:
- South Wales Valley lines
- Chiltern lines
- Manchester - York
- Midland main line, extended to Leeds via Meadowhall / Barnsley / Wakefield Kirkgate

 

[adc82140]

I'm biased, because I'm mostly familiar with the southern and western regions..

1- Wokingham-Ash Junction and Guildford to Reigate- 3rd rail DC, line handed over to South West Trains.

2- Airport Junction-Banbury and Westbury including Thames Valley Branches, 25kV AC- allows Bedwyn stoppers to continue to Westbury

3- West Ealing-Greenford, 4th rail DC, line handed to LUL to run as a District Line extension (OK, so a fair bit of rebuilding of Ealing Broadway would be needed)

4- Basingstoke-Salisbury, 3rd rail DC

5- Reading-Basingstoke, 3rd rail DC, handed to South West Trains- possibly a DC route through Reading platforms as well, to allow Waterloo-Basingstoke via Reading.

That lot would free up a heck of a lot of DMUs- the whole FGW Class 165-166 fleet (assuming the Cotswold route is transferred to 100% HST operation), a fair chunk of the SWT 158/159s

 

[Ivo]

The Marshlink is a no-brainer in my opinion, especially given the HS1 argument of giving Hastings and possibly Eastbourne a faster route into London; as a result of that, the Uckfield and North Downs routes become the sole remaining diesel islands south of the river so we'll throw those in, and then to add a greater completion, Reading to Basingstoke. Then I would like to choose the Severn Beach Line and the Valleys Lines, both of which would be OHLE and not Soutehrn Region 3rd rail.

Oh wait; that's six lines. Can I get away with that given they are quite small? Or do the Valleys count as more than one anyway...?

 

[Statto]

If i had the money i'd electrify
1 Great Western Main Line
2 XC Taunton & Basingstoke to Doncaster.
3 MML, St Pancaras to Nottingham & Sheffield via Derby, also Alfreton branch
4 Chiltern Line to Kidderminster & extend the wires to Hereford
5 TPE Liverpool/Blackpool to Hull/Scarbrough & Middlesbrough via Manchester

 

[Nightrider]

Shotts line
Carlisle to Kilmarnock
Whifflet Line
Paisley Canal
Edinburgh to Aberdeen.

 

[bluenoxid]

1. South East Manchester (Marple/Rose Grove)
2. Guide Bridge - Stalybridge - Manchester Victoria
3. Midland Main Line
4. Windemere Branch
5. Newbury - Westbury

Number 1 releases a number of Pacers for just electrifying 9 miles of double track. A major increase in service quality and also releases capacity on the TPE route into Manchester.

To help speed up Hatfield services, they could run some fast from beyond Guide Bridge during the peak right behind or in front of the TPE services. Stoppers from Stalybridge could fill in to provide the current level of service and create additional opportunities.

Midland Main Line seems a real no brainer with the opportunity to change some XC services over to electric with selective fill ins (Sheffield - Doncaster, Derby - Brum and Brum to Oxford). In addition some Thameslink services could be extended to Leicester, creating some amazing opportunities to connect the East Midlands to the South Coast. A further extension to Sheffield with an improvement in the quality of stock and no through operation in the peak would really enhance the route

Windemere will be a real lost opportunity if it does not follow the other NW projects. Personally I think Morecambe is in with a chance too because it offers the opportunity to double frequency and remove the wasteful Northern operation that results in trains being sent all over to operate this line.

I actually got Westbury mentioned in a letter in Modern Railways. Bedwyn was not the only opportunity I saw. Freight particularly after Crossrail will need to fight for scarce paths and if it plans to maintain a link to London, heavy electric locos capable of putting a lot of power to the rail would really increase the acceleration of the stone trains piling down the GWML. A loco change at Reading will be very expensive in this busy area compared to at Westbury Yard.

 

[IanXC]

Assuming the currently announced plans go ahead, and that I get new EMU stock for my new electrified routes:
1. Midland Mainline to its junction with the Leeds-Doncaster route.
2. Hull-Sheffield line, including
3. Gilberdyke to Leeds, the ECML via Selby, and to York via Sherburn.
4. Oxted Line
5. Marshlink

This would displace:
EMT: 13 HST sets (to GW for Turbos), 27 Meridian sets (to XC for 170s)
XC: 4 car Voyagers and Meridians to replace 170s, 5 and 7 car for current Voyager routes
Southern: 16 171s to ATW to retire 15 142s
TPE: 9 170s to Northern, 185s to remain, possibly including taking over York-Blackpool, route structure to change to allow Newcastle, Hull, Leeds electric operation and addition of Bradford as a destination.
GW: internal cascade of Turbos>158s>150s>retire 7 142s
Northern: internal cascade of 158s freed from Sheffield-Leeds via Barnsley, Sheffield-Hull, Nottingham-Leeds, York-Blackpool and already announced 317s to retire 68 142s.
Hull Trains: 4 (+5) 180s to TPE for Scottish services.

And now my brain has ground to a halt. I recon I've got XCs 29 170s left and I feel that the priorities should be to move Liverpool-Norwich and Cardiff-Portsmouth to 4 car operation throughout however quite how to do this and not have loads of non standard fleets I'm not really sure!!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

If I had the money:-

1. The Chase Line between Rugeley TV and Walsall
2. The North Wales Coast between Crewe and Holyhead
3. The Great Western Mainline
4. Birmingham New Street through to Doncaster
5. Manchester to Leeds

Main reason I wouldn't do the Southern/Southeastern 3rd rail network is because we would nee more rolling stock and that costs **** loads as well and we wouldn't get them for like fifty million years

 

[connor7777]

1. Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury
2. Mid-Cheshire line
3. Cardiff Valley lines
4. Crewe to Chester
5. HOW line (come on its only a bit of fun init)

 

[trickyvegas]

2. Guide Bridge - Stalybridge - Manchester Victoria
3. Midland Main Line
4. Windemere Branch
5. Newbury - Westbury


To help speed up Hadfield services, they could run some fast from beyond Guide Bridge during the peak right behind or in front of the TPE services. Stoppers from Stalybridge could fill in to provide the current level of service and create additional opportunities.

I agree with this whole-heatedly. Stalybridge also has a fourth track adjacent to the existing bay which is currently used by freight very occasionally whith spare land to the side which could potentially be used as a second bay to further support Victoria's capacity.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Bedford northwards to include Sheffield to Doncaster.
Trent to Grantham
The Corby branch
Ely N Junc to Peterborough.
Now you've got a completely electric Midland, two diversionary routes to and from the ECML plus a diversionary route via Cambridge. That latter route is the first part of the electrification to Felixstowe.
Now, let's go really wild and string up some wires from Helpston through Syston - Nuneaton then Birmingham. That now opens up a complete (and really useful) electric route for freight and passenger traffic from the west midlands through to east anglia. How about a Birmingham to/from Norwich/Ipswich splitting/joining at Ely?
This electrifying to Cardiff and/or Bristol is a no brainer. You'll end up with either diesels working for mile after mile under shiny wires or diesel locomotives hauling dead electrics about or the dreaded third possibility, services terminating there and punters having to change.

 

[tbtc]

If I had the money:-

1. The Chase Line between Rugeley TV and Walsall

That'd be one of the first sections I'd do, it has one of the best "DMUs saved per mile of electrification" cases (my criteria for electrification priorities), since the line is wired at Rugeley and Walsall/Birmingham, and the duties work so that every 170 on the route would be replaced with an EMU (some electrifications sound grand but don't really save *that* many DMUs - the GWML being an example of this).

Other priorities would be similar lines with electrification at one/both ends which are relatively self contained and would free up a few DMUs (GOBLIN in London, Marshlink, Oxted, Windermere (post Lancashire Triangle electrification being completed), Shotts...)

 

[Blindtraveler]

very good point there Re running under wires. May go over budget but basically all the gw bits, including to Swanzy the government aint doing, plus also edb to perth and dundee via fife, edinburgh falkirk stirling perth, perth to aberdeen via dundee, perth to inverness. The result, no bi-mode voyager, sorry iep needed, just hundreds of shiny electrics!

Bedford northwards to include Sheffield to Doncaster.
Trent to Grantham
The Corby branch
Ely N Junc to Peterborough.
Now you've got a completely electric Midland, two diversionary routes to and from the ECML plus a diversionary route via Cambridge. That latter route is the first part of the electrification to Felixstowe.
Now, let's go really wild and string up some wires from Helpston through Syston - Nuneaton then Birmingham. That now opens up a complete (and really useful) electric route for freight and passenger traffic from the west midlands through to east anglia. How about a Birmingham to/from Norwich/Ipswich splitting/joining at Ely?
This electrifying to Cardiff and/or Bristol is a no brainer. You'll end up with either diesels working for mile after mile under shiny wires or diesel locomotives hauling dead electrics about or the dreaded third possibility, services terminating there and punters having to change.

 

[Darandio]

As this is a "If you had the money" type scenario............

Could I suggest a complete re-electrification of the ECML as one of the contenders I would choose?

We all know its already electrified but we all know the problems that arise because of how it was done and what regularly happens.

Maybe as that is quite a big undertaking, that could count for three? Then for my other two, MML and TPE?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

1) Midland Main Line, full extent including the Sheffield - Leeds bit.
2) GWML beyond Bristol to Plymouth, including via the B&H.*
3) Bristol to Birmingham and on to Derby.
4) The Settle - Carlisle.**
5) Basingstoke - Exeter ( with OHL..... )



*Does that count as two lines?

**Making sure the power supply is beefy enough to allow the use of 92s on the freights.

 

[ushawk]

1. Marshlink
2. Uckfield Branch
3. Basingstoke to Salisbury (including the route of 6 via Romsey)
4. Chilterns
5. Valley Lines

Marshlink and Uckfield lines will obviously free up all of Southerns Diesels and could possibly go up North or to Wales, the West of England line as far as Salisbury could free up some 158's to give extra capacity on other operators services, Chilterns could free up some 165's for FGW and the new 172's could go to LM and the Valley Lines.

All would be OHLE excepy Marshlink and Uckfield lines which would be 3rd rail to fit in with the rest of the Southern network.

No idea where all the extra EMU's would come from

 

[NXEA!]

Interesting suggestions guys. Also interesting how a lot of you hold high regard for the electrification of the MML, personally I'd say as Main Lines go the Chiltern's would be better as it uses more suitable trains to cascade to regional operators who need capacity. In reply to Darandio's post, I'd understand the re-electrification of the ECML, it causes a lot of problems, especially south of Peterborough. As for the trains - well, its a 'what if' sort of thread, so don't worry.

 

[Bald Rick]

1) MML Down Fast line Bedford-Sheffield
2) MML Up Fast line Sheffield-Bedford
3) Trent - Nottingham Down Line
4) Nottingham - Trent Up Line
5) anything else is a bonus

Sorry to be off message - but those who advocate Hurst Green-Uckfield and Ashford-Hastings are barking up the wrong tree. Yes it removes an 'island' of diesel operation, and yes that would save some maintenance cost at Selhurst, but it would cost an awful lot of cash to save 44 vehicles worth of incremental maintenance and fuel cost. Especially as a good few of them sit around doing nothing for most of the day. If there is a financial case for this then presumably the bidders for the next South Central franchise will suggest it.

It's been said before, but if it was my money I would spend it where I would get the most cash for my investment, and that means replacing the greatest amount of diesel vehicle mileage for the lowest outlay.

 

[ainsworth74]

If I had enough money to electrify five railway lines I wouldn't be spending it on electrification, I would give a big chunk of it to charity and keep enough for myself so I could live comfortably without ever having to work again!

However I suspect that's not quite what you had mind when you posed the question so my actual answer is this:

1. MML including Leeds-Sheffield and Corby. To run it I would order the pantograph coaches for the 222s and enough extra vehicles to take all sets up to a minimum of 6 cars. If possible this order would also include some brand new 222s to replace the HSTs, otherwise look at buying an off the shelf EMU. As for the HSTs offer the trailers to FGW to extend their sets to 2+9 (if possible not sure on the numbers).

2. Edinburgh to Glasgow. To be run by a follow on order of extra 380s. Not sure on the formation perhaps 3-cars to run doubled up in the peak, but similarly perhaps just a straight order of 6 car units. The 170s freed up by this will either be cascaded away to other regional operators or internally cascaded within ScotRail and the 158s and perhaps 156s released sent to Northern/FGW/EMT.

3. The Valley Lines (it's a self contained network so I'm counting it as one line). Rolling stock not sure probably a 3-car EMU perhaps as part of Thameslink order. The freed up sprinters and pacers could be cascaded away to Northern/FGW.

4. GWML as far as Plymouth and Swansea. God knows what rolling stock, but for the core Paddington-Cardiff/Bristol/Plymouth service a pure 10 car EMU. As for the bits away from the wires... We'll deal with that later HSTs go on the scrap heap unless another operator wants them after they've been released.

5. TPE fully electrify the whole lot. So Leeds-York/Hull (including the connection onto the ECML near Selby), York-Middlesbrough/Scarborough, Manchester-Windemere/Barrow. As for rolling stock I would like something like the 444 but I'm conscious of the fact that wide 1/3+2/3 doors are really a requirement for the loadings through the core so would probably go for something like a 4-car 380. The 170s cascaded away to other regional operators. As for the 185s I'm not sure what to do with them but there must be an operator who could make use of a fleet of 51x 3-car inter-regional DMUs? Perhaps FGW/ATW/NXEA/Scotrail could have some use for them?

So those are my ideas tear them up at will

Edit: 2,000th post! It's been an emotional ride guys and I just hope for many more years of frivolous posting interspersed with the occasional good point

 

[atomicdanny]

Personally I would have said

1. Marshlink / Uckfield Branch (Former Double Line between Appledore and Ore as well, latter extend to Lewes)
* Listed as one because they are short!

2. Glasgow / Edinburgh - Aberdeen / Inverness!

3. Manchester - Sheffield - York (including Sheffield - Leeds - York & Sheffield - Doncaster)

4. North Wales Coast - Crewe - Holyhead

5. Midland Mainline (Bedford - Sheffield - the rest would be covered by 3!)

 

[YorkshireBear]

hmm
1.MML to leeds via all routes inc barnsley and alfreton.
Turn sheffield huddersfield stopper into a sheffield barnsley express then all stops to huddersfield. Similar suggestions to other, buy more coachs and pantographs for 222's plus extra 9 car variants to replace HST's so i have a mix of 9 car and 6 car 222's from the 7 and 4/5 car.

2. Merseyrail - All the little bits where DMU's and merseyrail meet scrap that and extend merseyrail to wigan helsby and preston (not sure about logistics of preston)
Internal cascade of DMU's within northern for capacity.

3. TPE All of it except scarbrough which i would leave alone. Turn york blackpool into a full on express and extending to scarbrough with 185's. All other TPE services have 185's withdrawn to be replaced with a mixture of 6 and 4 car EMU's (depending on platforms) Would also allow FHT to become electric and the stoppers from hull to york and selby to leeds. this would include into victoria too so another northern service would be transfeered across with possibility of huddersfield liverpool stopping services. (free up capacity)

4. Xc route from reading to doncaster
5. XC route from birmingham to bristol plus SW to plymouth.

HST's virtually eliminated. Many voyager services doubled up with 9 car EMU's on Avaliblae services. (ie those under wires)

 

[LexyBoy]

1) GWML Paddington to Plymouth, including to Swansea, diversionary route via Golden Valley and Gloucester, and branches (all Thames Valley branches, Didcot-Oxford). Frees up loads of HSTs which can go and do their thing elsewhere – perhaps some Scotrail routes or open access. Use 10 car EMUs on most routes, with a few 5 cars (splitting where sensible) for others.

2) Berks & Hants line including. Would probably improve timings quite a bit due to better acceleration, and allow a better combination of express and local working

3) Cross-country route between Newcastle and Bristol. Get more pure EMUs for the core section, and add pantograph coaches to the Vomagers for operation beyond the wires.

4) Basingstoke-Coventy – would allow yet more XC workings to be electrically worked (most could be done by pure EMUs), and lots of freight could be hauled by 92s (if there are enough around).

5) All major commuter/local lines around Manchester and Leeds Or if that's too cheeky, the unwired bits of TPE’s routes so the 185s can be taken off and used somewhere where a diesel is actually needed.

 

[Aictos]

1. Edinburgh to Glasgow via Shotts and Falkirk High.
2. Chiltern Mainline*.
3. Completion of the Midland Mainline
4. Completion of the East Coast Mainline
5. Basingstoke to Exeter St Davids**

*This would mean EMU operations with the current DMUs being used elsewhere, 90s could be used instead of the 67s as another bonus.

**This would mean South West Trains no longer serving Bristol Temple Meads as the line to Bristol is already earmarked for 25KkV OHLE, least this way it means the DMUs with South West Trains at the moment can be used with other more needy operators.

 

[jopsuk]

If we take the GWML as announced, ditto the North West and the Central Scotland palns, and possibly the MML in full as read as well (I know I know) then my five would be:

1. Marshlink
2. Uckfield
3. Gatwick-Reading
4. GOBLIN
(these are all in-fills)
5. Norwich-Peterborough (ideally with a southern chord at Norwich to allow freight to use it easily)

Then another few:
6. rest of the GWML, at least as far as Plymouth, ideally Penzance, plus the ridiculously missed Thames Valley branches)
7. Southampton-Salisbury "figure of 6"
8. Welsh Valleys
9. East Anglian branchlines and Ipswich-Cambridge/Ely
10. In-fill what would now be the remaining area between Exeter, Weymouth, Bristol and Salisbury
11. Chiltern- including the LM routes through Snow Hill (this would make the entire former NSE area now electric)
12. Shots route (not busy, but daft to miss it out) and any other missed out Central Scotland branches
13. Transpenine, fully.

 

[rail-britain]

Whifflet Line
Paisley Canal

The following already form the Phase Two Scotland Electrification :
Midcalder to Holytown
Rutherglen to Whifflet
Corkerhill to Paisley Canal

The route between Kilmarnock and Barassie is also included

There is little benefit electrifying Carlisle to Kilmarnock, the current Class 156 is suitable

Once this phase is underway the proposals for the following routes will be considered :
Dunblane to Dundee
Ladybank to Perth / Perth to Inverness
Haymarket to Fife Circle / Aberdeen
However these last two are likely to be merged into a much simpler extension from Dunblane to Aberdeen only

 

[tbtc]

Sorry to be off message - but those who advocate Hurst Green-Uckfield and Ashford-Hastings are barking up the wrong tree. Yes it removes an 'island' of diesel operation, and yes that would save some maintenance cost at Selhurst, but it would cost an awful lot of cash to save 44 vehicles worth of incremental maintenance and fuel cost. Especially as a good few of them sit around doing nothing for most of the day

We are going to struggle to get new DMUs built (partly because ROSCOs don't want to be lumbered with them if a significant number of lines are going to be electrified in the next generation - less need for DMUs means less profit!)

So, the easier way to get additional DMUs (for busy routes in "the provinces") would be to electrify additional lines that free up DMUs.

Ashford - Hastings is around thirty miles, plus Oxted - Uckfield is around twenty five, so the "coaches saved per mile of electrification" is high (hence my suggestion of GOBLIN etc too).

Also, you create potential for additional Uckfield - London services (since they can be coupled to other EMUs) and for coastal routes like Southampton/Portsmouth - Brighton - Hastings - Ashford - Dover/ Folkstone/ Maidstone to be EMU run (taking pressure off the kind of journeys which currently involve going into London and out again).

Plus, if a lot of those 171s are "sitting around doing nothing for most of the day" then I can assure you the forty four coaches would be welcomed on routes like Cardiff - Portsmouth, Liverpool - Nottingham, Transpennine etc

(sorry, gone off topic)

 

[ian959]

1. Bristol TM - Birmingham New Street - Sheffield - Leeds/Doncaster
2. Manchester - Leeds - Hull/York/Scarborough/Cleethorpes
3. Walsall - Rugeley Trent Valley
4. Crewe - Chester - Holyhead (including Llandudno)
5. Carlisle - Kilmarnock and whatever bits between Kilmarnock and Glasgow

Number 1 releases squads of 220s/221s/170s by replacement with a shorter version of the 390s (8 cars) on core Cross Country services and removes a pile of 'diesel under the wire' services. Also makes the conversion of 220s/221s to bi-modes (and extension to 7 cars) much more feasible for South Coast services. Very complimentary to GWML electrification, especially if Reading -Birmingham also done. Newport - Cheltenham Spa becomes an in-fill project too.

Number 2 releases loads of 156s/180s/185s and infills all sorts of routes (along with current electrification schemes).

Number 3 is a no-brainer - not only removing 'diesel under the wire' services but also providing another diversionary WCML route. Also potential to take services to Birmingham off the busy Wolverhampton - Birmingham corridor.

Number 4 is another no-brainer - eliminates more extensive 'diesel under the wire services' and with other projects offers elimination of diesel services ex Manchester thus releasing 175s/158s.

Number 5 offers a diversionary route/more freight paths to Glasgow for WCML services and complements existing plans to electrify much/all of the Glasgow based suburban/interurban network.

 

[First class]

Personally:

1) Bidston-Wrexham DC
2) Helsby-Ellesmere Port DC (maybe Helsby-Chester with a curve so Liverpool-Chester via ELP - diversionary)
3) Kirkby-Wigan
4) Southport-Wigan
5) Ormskirk-Preston

Surely these projects would:

a) release DMUs (upwards of 10)
b) expand Merseyrail journey oppertunities
c) improve timetables
d) environmental benefits

 

[jopsuk]

GOBLIN is about more than just Passenger services- at the moment, electric freight has to go via Stratford to the NLL; only diesels can leave at Barking.

Plus, much of it has wires already, to completely electrify requires several short infills.