Ideas to solve Thameslink reliability by reducing its network

[Bald Rick]

My two cents worth. Most Thameslink through Services not much affected, I've assumed Max 22 tph through. Assumes that SouthEastern run 2tph Cannon Street via Greenwich and replacement of existing SE Gillingham Victoria.

Main Focus has been to get more out of the bays at Blackfriars as all trains via Elephant in the peaks are pretty full. This provides 20TPH via Elephant in the Peaks dropping to 10 TPH Off Peak. To do this I've removed all conflicting moves on the Holborns so all Sutton Trains Terminate at Blackfriars all day with a doubling of frequency during the Peaks. The Bromley South taking trains take over the St Albans Route with an additional Bellingham Welwyn in the peaks so increasing frequency by a third on the busiest part of the Catford Loop during the peaks.

On completion i realised i had missed the new Dartford via Sidcup service. So 1 TPD conflicting move, but it can run in parallel to something on the Slows on the UP at least provided it goes to platform 3 and the other to platform 4...

Did you mean to put the Rainhams via Catford? What would provide service to Greenwich etc?

 

[SE%Traveller]

Did you mean to put the Rainhams via Catford? What would provide service to Greenwich etc?

Yep, that was the idea. It would in effect replace the current Gillingham Victoria Service. In turn SouthEastern run 2 TPH Cannon Street via Greenwich. Don't suppose it matters which starts from Rainham and which from Gillingham...

 

[CarrotPie]

This provides 20TPH via Elephant in the Peaks dropping to 10 TPH Off Peak.

And how are you going to path 14tph through Herne Hill in the peaks?

 

[SE%Traveller]

And how are you going to path 14tph through Herne Hill in the peaks?

I make it 10 TPH from HNH, 8 from DMK during the peaks. (though in double checking that i realised I overstated the overall TPH in peaks which should be 18). It is on the high side but was achieved during the London Bridge rebuild when there was the 4 TPH from Brighton, 4TPH from Sutton and an odd assortment of peak extras form Kent House etc.

 

[CarrotPie]

I make it 10 TPH from HNH, 8 from DMK during the peaks. (though in double checking that i realised I overstated the overall TPH in peaks which should be 18). It is on the high side but was achieved during the London Bridge rebuild when there was the 4 TPH from Brighton, 4TPH from Sutton and an odd assortment of peak extras form Kent House etc.

Not to completely rip apart your plan, but 26tph through essentially a 2-track junction doesn't scream reliability at me, especially when that is the topic of this thread... The current SE service has roughly 3-6 minute gaps between services, so services could be pathed fairly frequently, but it also helps if they come from Blackfriars, so the inevitable knock-on effects do not carry over through the core and onto the MML.

Furthermore, 8tph through the Catford Loop (plus 1-3 SE tph) also won't work, as the SE fasts will get stuck behind the TL slows, and the Rainham services would be prone to delays on the CML from regional services, especially if they have a slow or semi-fast stopping pattern. Finally, Rainham should have stayed with SE.

 

[SE%Traveller]

but 26tph through essentially a 2-track junction doesn't scream reliability at me, especially when that is the topic of this thread...

I based my calculations on the current SE timetable (to be implemented form December) that makes it 18 TpH not 26 through Herne Hill. 10 via Penge East: (4 Fast to Victoria (this i think drops to 3 in December) 4 slow to Victoria; 2 slow from Beckenham Junction to Blackfriars) 8 from Tulse Hill: (the Sutton Loops); Happy to be corrected on the other 8 TPH you mention if you can identify?

ut it also helps if they come from Blackfriars, so the inevitable knock-on effects do not carry over through the core and onto the MML.

Completely agree and accommodated in the plan as stated Everything from Herne Hill goes to the Bays so MML (and the ECML) isolated from from anything going via Herne Hill

Furthermore, 8tph through the Catford Loop (plus 1-3 SE tph) also won't work, as the SE fasts will get stuck behind the TL slows, and the Rainham services would be prone to delays on the CML from regional services, especially if they have a slow or semi-fast stopping pattern.

The only change to frequency of my plan on the Catford Loop is a net increase of 1 train in the Peak: (2TPH x Bellingham- Welwyn added, 1 Ashford- Blackfriars removed); and a net increase of 1 TPH off peak (2TPH x Rainham/ Gillingham to Luton replaces the Gillingham Victoria (via DMK) Service (2tph Peak/ 1 TPH off peak)). The stated Ashford Blackfriars and Gillingham Victoria trains are the only SE trains routed via Catford.

As to whether there will be an issue fasts catching the current Ashford (Fast) and Luton (Slow) are timed to leave Bromley South at the same time, the former get's into Denmark Hill in 11 mins and 7 mins behind the train ahead (Sevenoaks) so not an issue currently. The Proposed Bellingham Service most logically wiil be the one to follow that Fast.

Finally, Rainham should have stayed with SE.

Completely agree and accommodated in the plan as stated (SE provide Rainham/ Gillingham to Cannon Street replaces current Rainham Luton)