How is HS1 domestic doing

[williamn]

Just wondered if anyone here uses HS1 for domestic trips much and can comment on how busy it is? Certainly seem to be lots of people coming off it in the mornings but seems to be pretty quiet off peak. But thats just from me exiting St Pancras, not using the actual trains. Can anyone comment?

 

[rob395]

Used Javelin for the first time last week. On the whole was quite impressed. Travelled off peak in the morning (weekday). The train was just under half full. There were plenty of spare seats. I'd say not quite as busy as the equivalent services on the 'classic' route via Tonbridge before domestic services started on HS1. Coming home I was on the 19.42 from St Pancras. This time the train was over half full but still not as busy as the services from Charing Cross at around that time - I'd be lucky to have got a seat.

The new services have caused some controvercy in my area. Many commuters are upset because the classic services are now slower. There's also the premium fare and the fact that St Pancras is further out from the City and West End.

There are certainly some disadvantages but there are also many advantages. It gives us better connections to the East Midlands and North from Kings Cross and St Pancras as well as connections to East London and Anglia via Stratford.

I can't say I'll use it for every journey I make to London. It really depends where I need to get to.

 

[dk1]

There was a report in one of the national newspapers last week reguarding property prices since HS1 opened. If i recall they gave one example near Ashford which had gone from £500k to £570k. They interviewed local estate agents who all remarked that business was very very good with lots of interest from potential buyers. Another family where moving there as journey times made it no more than their local commute by bus/tube & they could get so much more for their money.

 

[gordonthemoron]

That's the reason why the UK desperately needs High Speed rail, rising property prices

 

[Lee_Again]

That's the reason why the UK desperately needs High Speed rail, rising property prices

I think the opposite.

The reason house prises in the South East are so high is purely because of the difference in supply and demand, what with being so close to London and the employment opportunities that presents. If, however, you could get from the Midlands to London in the same time as from the 'suburbs' then this will surely open up a wider market and consequently reduce demand nearer London as people look further afield for cheaper housing. The affect of this will be to reduce house prices. I guess the local prices further North and West will go up but I would say the overall impact will be downwards.

For me, the more High Speed routes the better. Imagine stations at Bristol, Swindon, Birmingham, Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, York, Doncaster and Norwich all being with 60 mins of London. You could almost pick from 30% of the country to live in rather than the 10% in and around London. Bring it on.

 

[gordonthemoron]

however, the season tickets would cost a fortune, it's already more than £7000 for Nottingham to London

 

[tbtc]

The new services have caused some controvercy in my area. Many commuters are upset because the classic services are now slower

Are they only slower as they stop at more stations?

Or have they been slowed down further?

 

[shinkansen1966]

Wonder if the premium fare is putting people of using the SET high speed train service into St Pancras.

In my opinion, the way forward is to remove all reference to 'high speed' service and premium fares. Treat the service as a normal train from Kent/Ashford which just happens to take 37 mins to reach St Pancras. Same fare, same branding as the classic trains. That way, it will appeal to everyone and looses it premium status. Boost numbers?

 

[bengley]

Wonder if the premium fare is putting people of using the SET high speed train service into St Pancras.

In my opinion, the way forward is to remove all reference to 'high speed' service and premium fares. Treat the service as a normal train from Kent/Ashford which just happens to take 37 mins to reach St Pancras. Same fare, same branding as the classic trains. That way, it will appeal to everyone and looses it premium status. Boost numbers?

Maybe keep the prices premium for a year or so, just to make up for the costs of starting the service, then lower them to standard SET prices.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Which leads me to my next question:

During the 2012 Olympics, there will a dedicated Javelin service shuttling between St Pancras, Stratford and Ebbsfleet.

What rolling stock will be used ?
If it's high speed 395 stock, will the carriages come from the existing pool of stock used for the current service ?
Will the Javelin service be in addition to the existing service from Kent/Ashford ?
If so, which St Pancras platforms will they use? There are only 3 reserved for SET services up from Kent.

 

[A60K]

There's going to be a special timetable in operation for the Olympics, and no extra stock. I'm sure the depot will be tweaking the stock maintenance around that time to get the maximum availability from the fleet.

 

[jopsuk]

Aye- rember that it will "only" be for a two week period. Presumably services on the "classic" lines from Kent will be bolstered somehow during the peaks?

 

[dk1]

NO, keep the premium fares on HS1. It keeps the trash out!

 

[rob395]

Are they only slower as they stop at more stations?

Or have they been slowed down further?

To my knowledge there are now no limited stop services between Ashford and Charing Cross ie. Ashford - Tonbridge - Waterloo East - Charing Cross. Most services now call additioally at Paddock Wood, Sevenoaks and Orpington. Indeed direct services on the classic route from my local station of Sandwich now take about 10 minutes longer as most of them additionally call at the four small stations (Pluckley, Headcorn, Staplehurst and Marden) between Ashford and Paddock Wood. I imagine this is done to encourage people to use HS1. I think there is a similar situation on Kent Coast services into Victoria.

 

[Lampshade]

NO, keep the premium fares on HS1. It keeps the trash out!

If you say so Mr. Winterton.

 

[dk1]

If you say so Mr. Winterton.

Well it works for Waitrose .

Who's the Winterton chap?

 

[tbtc]

To my knowledge there are now no limited stop services between Ashford and Charing Cross ie. Ashford - Tonbridge - Waterloo East - Charing Cross. Most services now call additioally at Paddock Wood, Sevenoaks and Orpington. Indeed direct services on the classic route from my local station of Sandwich now take about 10 minutes longer as most of them additionally call at the four small stations (Pluckley, Headcorn, Staplehurst and Marden) between Ashford and Paddock Wood. I imagine this is done to encourage people to use HS1. I think there is a similar situation on Kent Coast services into Victoria.

Cheers.

I've used the service to Sandwich a couple of times in the past, but couldn't remember the old stopping pattern.

I'd like to be optimistic and claim that the slowed down "classic" services mean more trains using local stations in Kent, but appreciate that they may have done this to encourage people to sue the shiny new line.

Will be interesting to see whether we get the same treatment on HS2, with Pendolinos on the WCML stopping at places like Tring to slow them down and encourage people to use the newer service

 

[Geezertronic]

Who's the Winterton chap?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/shows/victoria-derbyshire/2010-02/sir-nicholas-winterton/

In the heated interview, Sir Nicholas said MPs needed "quiet and privacy" to work and that there was a "totally different type of people" in standard class.

 

[dk1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/shows/victoria-derbyshire/2010-02/sir-nicholas-winterton/

Yeah

 

[ladydsm]

There was a report in one of the national newspapers last week reguarding property prices since HS1 opened. If i recall they gave one example near Ashford which had gone from £500k to £570k. They interviewed local estate agents who all remarked that business was very very good with lots of interest from potential buyers. Another family where moving there as journey times made it no more than their local commute by bus/tube & they could get so much more for their money.

I know someone that bought a house in flitwick bedfordshire as the house was much bigger and cheaper and the commute was about the same from their old house in sutton to kings cross thameslink.

 

[91101]

Hounslow - Zone 5 18miles from office - 1hr5 commute to office - £1200 for a two bedroom, two bath appartment.

Peterborough - East Midlands 78miles from office - 1hr 10 commute to office - £565 for two bedroom, two bath appartment.

 

[dave12435]

To my knowledge there are now no limited stop services between Ashford and Charing Cross ie. Ashford - Tonbridge - Waterloo East - Charing Cross. Most services now call additioally at Paddock Wood, Sevenoaks and Orpington. Indeed direct services on the classic route from my local station of Sandwich now take about 10 minutes longer as most of them additionally call at the four small stations (Pluckley, Headcorn, Staplehurst and Marden) between Ashford and Paddock Wood. I imagine this is done to encourage people to use HS1. I think there is a similar situation on Kent Coast services into Victoria.

You are indeed correct
Dover to Charing Cross call at all stations and is now only 1 per hour
Victoria is really dodgy at weekends they run as if to go to to Charing Cross then switch to Victoria route up by Sevenoaks AFAIK

 

[williamn]

I was on a E* leaving around 9am today and the SET service pulling in (don't know where from) had no more than 5 people per carriage on it, if that.

 

[jon0844]

I bet everyone that pays the supplement is VERY happy that it is keeping others from using it.

In a way, SET hasn't built the train with no first class accommodation; they've created a train with no standard class!!

 

[Mintona]

Passengers numbers on HS1 north kent (ie. Faversham services) have tripled since service started in December. And all numbers rising week after week.

 

[gordonthemoron]

do the Javelin's have first class seats?

 

[jon0844]

Tripled since December; so that's three then.

do the Javelin's have first class seats?

No, but as I said before, with the combination of a bright, new, spacious interior and lack of custom - the whole train has a feel of first class to it.

I really enjoyed my journey, but would be seriously annoyed at having to pay a hefty surcharge to use it!

 

[gordonthemoron]

so SET could market it as an exclusive First Class service?

 

[Failed Unit]

Passengers numbers on HS1 north kent (ie. Faversham services) have tripled since service started in December. And all numbers rising week after week.

Based on what for interest. The number of people travelling between Faversham and London has tripled or just the ones using HS1. If it is the later that isn't going to be that hard to do considering the limited HS1 service before December. There are still the same number of trains per hour (4) and the HS1 train isn't that much faster than the old fast train to London Victoria. The trouble is that the train to Victoria has been slowed down as it stops more often.

I used to use the route a lot and it was often very full until at least Rochester. I certainly think that the 6 coach train into St Pancras seem to have a lot less people on them than the old 8 coach trains.

 

[jon0844]

so SET could market it as an exclusive First Class service?

If they wanted to. First class season ticket holders can use HS1 at no extra cost, while standard class ticket holders must pay extra - so it is pretty much a first class service.