Hold The Doors!

[Asian Demon]

Not sure what bubble you think I might have, but I did read before quoting and am fully aware which post you were referring too.

My point is that you seem to have automatically assumed that skyjuice06 was at fault in arriving at the last minute. Their post gave no indication as to the reason for the last minute arrival. It may have indeed been their fault, but equally how do you know they had not been delayed on a connecting service as in the OP?

The reason for the last minute arrival is not, in fact, relevant to the question of forcing back a door, so why add an unnecessary assumption which implies that the offence is somehow the greater if the late arrival is the fault of the passenger?

The fact of whether he is at fault or not for arriving late is irrelevant. I should not have assumed that he was at fault for arriving late. For that I do apologise.

However the fact that the person is forcing doors open to get on a train when doors are shutting/have shut means I lose any sympathy whether his boarding the train at that point was down to any delay that was his own fault or not.

The question is to do with forcing doors open to get on a train which has by other members of the forum commenting, been shown to cause substantial delays and possible damage to a train. I'll be honest when I say it is something that does annoy me because there are procedures in place if a person misses his connection through fault of the railway. There are rules in place to rectify a situation if need be. Acting as selfish as is stated by forcing doors open means regardless of reason for doing so, I have no sympathy for the individual.

 

[BestWestern]

Shame I don't work trains between Clapham and Surbiton Mr Skyjuice, as I'd be making a point of looking for the tw*t who always turns up at the last minute and then barges onto the train :roll: You'd come unstuck sooner or later...

 

[lauraGeeGee]

I hope when the day comes that you get it wrong and your clothing gets trapped in the door without triggering the detector, or the safety systems fail to operate correctly, the guard or dispatcher spots your plight before the train moves off!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...station-platform-train-doors-close-ankle.html

Oh god, that report! Not even the right class of train in the picture.:roll: But yes, that is the sort of thing that can happen.

Just an example of what can happen, and does on a regular basis on a very busy suburban route.

London Liverpool Street. Departure time, driver receives CD. Driver closes doors. Last minute passengers run for train, obstruct the doors causing a delay of 30 seconds. (doesn't sound a lot but the knock on affect for the rest of the journey is now set up) Given RA. Train departs. Arrive at Stratford almost a minute late. VERY busy station, tube trains tipping out less than every minute, so late arrival there and more passengers wanting to board the train. Again given CD, more passengers run for train, obstruct the doors. Another tube train turns up on adjacent platform, those passengers then obstruct the doors. Train is now 2 minutes late, misses path through a junction. Adds another minute. Now 3 minutes late.

Train is very full. EVERY station, given 30 seconds for people to alight and board train. Not realistic but that's what you get. Train is now say 5 minutes late, make up time is there. You just about catch up and make up a minute, possibly 2. Get to Shenfield. Held outside station as path is missed so have to wait for a train already in Shenfield to depart for London, otherwise that train is late too. Not forgetting trains behind are now late due to being held up by this one.

Arrive at Shenfield now 7 minutes late. Passengers on the train who wanted to connect with other services have now missed their connections and have to wait 20 minutes and they want to know why, from me! The next day I have to write a report for lost time.

All because people obstructed doors. Once you are late from Liv St, on that route in the peak. You have no chance! There's a train every few minutes, there really is no need to hold one up!

Off peak, I will wait depending on the circumstances. You do have to be ruthless on occasions. Every driver/guard can tell you how on many occasions, you'll wait for a runner to board only for them to then stand in the door to wait for 20 more people to come running too!

Trains don't wait for people, people wait for trains.

My company's way of tackling this problem is a poster and PA announcement campaign to advise people not to obstruct the doors. If only people wouldn't. Railways would run a lot more on time.

 

[BestWestern]

In only we didn't have to equip new trains with such limp doors that will grind to a halt and burst into tears at the slightest hint of any obstruction :roll: There is an alarm that sounds, if you choose to put yourself in the way then tough, frankly. It's an interesting contrast to the Underground in rush hour - if the doors on a Tube train were so sensitive the darn thing would never leave the station!

 

[Asian Demon]

i agree that im selfish, but if i get on my train and it means that I'M not late for work then i dont care! sorry

Then maybe you should try and make sure you are on time. If the delay is because of a connection I'd understand your issue but doing such a thing causes delays for other people besides yourself. I'll be honest but I agree with 313103 and BestWestern. You are totally selfish and I applaud the day the you become unstuck and get held to account. It's passengers like you who are the worst and cause nothing but misery for other passengers and staff alike.

 

[lauraGeeGee]

In only we didn't have to equip new trains with such limp doors that will grind to a halt and burst into tears at the slightest hint of any obstruction :roll: There is an alarm that sounds, if you choose to put yourself in the way then tough, frankly. It's an interesting contrast to the Underground in rush hour - if the doors on a Tube train were so sensitive the darn thing would never leave the station!

So true!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What a suprise, another potentially lethal safety failing on a DOO train :roll:

I can understand what you're saying but in this instance, you don't know the real story. I'm not going to tell it on here but it has nothing to do with the train being operated under DOO! Grossly exaggerated story from someone who didn't even contact the company but went straight to the papers.

Regardless, even with a guard on the train, the curvature of the line at that station, they wouldn't see anything anyway!

Why no one pulled a passenger alarm as he was so obviously moments from death is beyond me!

 

[skyjuice06]

Then maybe you should try and make sure you are on time. If the delay is because of a connection I'd understand your issue but doing such a thing causes delays for other people besides yourself. I'll be honest but I agree with 313103 and BestWestern. You are totally selfish and I applaud the day the you become unstuck and get held to account. It's passengers like you who are the worst and cause nothing but misery for other passengers and staff alike.

Bovvered. I used national rail enquiries's online journey planner the other day, for a journey from Sanderstead to London Victoria. i had to change at East Croydon for a connecting train which had a 5 minute wait in between. One problem though, the connecting train was already gone, 3 minutes early. i spoke to the idiot dispatcher who probably let it go and he shrugged his shoulders and walked off. Because of that, my whole journey was thrown off balance and I ended up 30 mins late. You can't tell me that if someone hadn't delayed the train by prising the doors open, that it would have been a bad thing. It's not just the passengers who mess up, and it must happen every day.

 

[Aictos]

Thing is though it's selfish actions like holding the doors in a clear example of the me me me culture and rightly should be publically named and shamed so when decent passengers want to complain about their train being late, they can be pointed in the direction of the disruptive passengers and told to ask them.

It is NOT the job of the railway to ensure you arrive in time for your train but only to run trains on time.

Y

 

[OxtedL]

Eh-yup! Where were you going to from Sanderstead then, if that ruined your journey that much?

Also, I fear that that little anecdote does not excuse holding doors open...

Oh, and 377s from Sanderstead will have a guard, who will almost always allow you to get on through their door if they see you running.

 

[skyjuice06]

Eh-yup! Where were you going to from Sanderstead then, if that ruined your journey that much?

Also, I fear that that little anecdote does not excuse holding doors open...

Oh, and 377s from Sanderstead will have a guard, who will almost always allow you to get on through their door if they see you running.

I've already said I was heading to Victoria... and yes I know that the guard at SNR always lets me on through their door. What im saying is that I got on a London Bridge destined train at Sanderstead and so i had to change at East Croydon, but my connecting service was gone 3 minutes early.

 

[Aictos]

But at some stations, the connection time is more then 5 minutes especially so with East Croydon.

What you ought to have done is given yourself more time rather then complain, I doubt anyone would purposely let a train go early.

 

[OxtedL]

And this is where we all calm down before someone is banned.

I think that if anyone was running for the train they would certainly be tempted to grab the doors in their closing cycle, probably without thinking, and afterwards probably feeling quite pleased with themselves.

It's wrong, but...

=================
If you were on a LBG train, it could only have been at a time of day when there were lots of VIC trains (which is all the time). Or at a weekend. When there are still lots of VIC trains. I'm confused, and 30 minutes is far too long a delay to your journey for me to be happy with what you're saying, regardless.

 

[skyjuice06]

And this is where we all calm down before someone is banned.

I think that if anyone was running for the train they would certainly be tempted to grab the doors in their closing cycle, probably without thinking, and afterwards probably feeling quite pleased with themselves.

It's wrong, but...

This.

 

[Aictos]

it goes both ways then doesnt it!

I really don't think it does now it wouldn't surprise me if one day passengers got fed up with your actions and took matters into their own hands, indeed I would certainly not be in a position to stop them. If they wanted to lynched you then fair enough, I would not say they were subjected to reasonable behaviour from you.

 

[BestWestern]

And this is where we all calm down before someone is banned.

I think that if anyone was running for the train they would certainly be tempted to grab the doors in their closing cycle, probably without thinking, and afterwards probably feeling quite pleased with themselves.

It's wrong, but...

'Without thinking' is one thing, but this shining example of intelligence appears to view this activity as a routine part of the journey. Perhaps if the day arrives when he is able to tell the time, he might choose to arrive a little earlier and save himself looking a prat every day, and not have to panic about getting to his job(centre?!) on time!

 

[OxtedL]

'Without thinking' is one thing, but this shining example of intelligence appears to view this activity as a routine part of the journey. Perhaps if the day arrives when he is able to tell the time, he might choose to arrive a little earlier and save himself looking a prat every day, and not have to panic about getting to his job(centre?!) every day!

That kind of comment is bordering the uncalled for. But yes, on a regular basis is a bad idea. Hateful, hateful idea. :roll:

I wasn't getting that impression myself though.

Seriously. Everyone. Calm down.

Can I also repost this, please:

If you were on a LBG train, it could only have been at a time of day when there were lots of VIC trains (which is all the time). Or at a weekend. When there are still lots of VIC trains. I'm confused, and 30 minutes is far too long a delay to your journey for me to be happy with what you're saying, regardless.

 

[BestWestern]

That kind of comment is bordering the uncalled for. But yes, on a regular basis is a bad idea. Hateful, hateful idea. :roll:

I wasn't getting that impression myself though.

Seriously. Everyone. Calm down.

Well, sometimes an 'uncalled for' comment is, in fact, very much called for - if you see what I mean What is very much uncalled for is somebody who comes on the forum with the apparent intention of winding people up, not quite sure where that comes from. Each to their own they, we can give as good as we get

 

[Sceptre]

Thankfully at night, dispatchers at King's Cross seem more than willing to allow a train to leave up to a minute late - IF there's a steady stream of people running. 60 seconds is actually quite a long time, but not if the train is at the front part of the platform!

Presumably most services can make up time at night (which seems to be shown by many services actually finishing early).

I've known the 2033 (not sure if it's changed under the new timetable) to Leeds not been given an announced platform until near on 2030 on a couple of occasions. Expecting a few dozen people to bolt up platform 2 or 4 (as it normally is) all the way from the concourse up to the standard class coaches in under two minutes is expecting too much.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[HST Power]

I've been away for one evening and can't understand what on earth has happened to this thread!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Most of the large stations that I use clearly display the "time period" prior to the departure of the train in which NO passenger must attempt to board the train. This is to ensure the safety of intending travellers and for the correct operation of the train time schedule and of its path.

 

[1V53]

I've been away for one evening and can't understand what on earth has happened to this thread!

Troll came on. Others took the bait. End of.

 

[island]

Have you ever considered that by yanking the door open can cause the doors to remain open, which will mean the Traction Interlock Switch is isolated all passengers off and train empty to the depot.

I had that happen on an Electrostar once, but the driver came out, pulled the door shut, fiddled with a T-key at the top of the doors, and declared them locked and out of use. I wonder what the difference was.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I had that happen on an Electrostar once, but the driver came out, pulled the door shut, fiddled with a T-key at the top of the doors, and declared them locked and out of use. I wonder what the difference was.

He would have been able to get interlock. I had an incident once where a bunch of lads forced open a door and broke it. Couldnt get interlock again no matter what I tried. Train cancelled.

 

[313103]

i agree that im selfish, but if i get on my train and it means that I'M not late for work then i dont care! sorry

Then you really are selfish, as trains on my line run every 6-7 minutes in the rush hour.

What about getting up five minutes earlier and using the extra time to get to the station before the train has arrived, rather then leaving it to the train is about to leave? or is that to complicated to do? As i said in my post if you did that on my train i would be inclined to make you leave and make you late, meeting performance targets goes out of the window when passengers decide they have a taxi service rather then a train service. I will make sure that the service is run like a taxi service waiting for everyone, i will also tell them not to rush, i will take my time in doing my job and all the time the train is running late, which in the end for the person who obstructs the doors would realise what a futile thing i have done, as i might of waited for the next train because i have not benifitted. However there is that old saying ' A few also spoil it for the majority'.

Your name isnt Keith by the way and you wasnt travelling on SWT on Tuesday night perchance?

 

[Jordy]

As OxtedL has rightly said a number of times, can everyone please calm down and keep things civil, I've already deleted a number of posts and issued warnings, any further problems will result in the thread being locked.

 

[Buttsy]

Having often planned journeys with tight connecting times, I have on occasion, missed my connection as the doors are closing as I turn up. Most of the time, if I hear the whistle for the train, I'll look for the guard/conductor and run to where he is hoping that he'll wait for me to jump on. If he doesn't, c'est la vie, I knew when the train was due to go so I should have been there sooner.

I am annoyed when this happens, there is no doubt about it, but the frustration and annoyance is directed at myself rather than the crew or station staff.

 

[BestWestern]

Having often planned journeys with tight connecting times, I have on occasion, missed my connection as the doors are closing as I turn up. Most of the time, if I hear the whistle for the train, I'll look for the guard/conductor and run to where he is hoping that he'll wait for me to jump on. If he doesn't, c'est la vie, I knew when the train was due to go so I should have been there sooner.

I am annoyed when this happens, there is no doubt about it, but the frustration and annoyance is directed at myself rather than the crew or station staff.

This is the 'correct' way of going about boarding a train at the last moment - look for Guard (if there is one), as he will have his local door open if the main doors are in the process of closing, and most of the time if you run towards them they will let you board. If it's DOO then sadly the moment has already passed.

 

[HST Power]

He would have been able to get interlock. I had an incident once where a bunch of lads forced open a door and broke it. Couldnt get interlock again no matter what I tried. Train cancelled.

Bunch of idiots. BTP should shoot them on site.



(this is a joke, no need to take it seriously)

 

[jon0844]

Without mentioning user names, does any admin care to comment if two users in this thread are in fact one and the same person? I have my suspicions that they are, or if not, there's another place where people are being invited to come on and post silly questions here.