Historical Boat trains

[Harpo]

Yes....hauled by Cricklewood-allocated class 27s in the D5379-5415 series

And 24s. Prior to that mostly Crabs and class 4 0-6-0s. Through coaches from Derby (and possibly elsewhere?) for part of their history.

 

[eastwestdivide]

What would be the headcode of a victoria > dovre boat train ; being cep>bep>cep>mlv? or even the return dover> victoria?

Mostly 46 headcode - have a look on flickr or othe photo libraries for MLV boat train for examples. 56 was Vic/Folkestone Harbour.

 

[D6130]

Mostly 46 headcode - have a look on flickr or othe photo libraries for MLV boat train for examples. 56 was Vic/Folkestone Harbour.

Plus several other headcodes, depending on the route taken.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Plus several other headcodes, depending on the route taken.

But mostly 46!

 

[30907]

But mostly 46!

74 for the Up NF via Chatham.

The SREMG site has lists for sample years
https://sremg.org.uk/headcodes/headcodes.html

 

[Jan Mayen]

The only "boat trains" I took, or nearly took in the mid 80s, were the London to Dover to connect with the Jetfoil to Ostend, and the connection from Sittingbourne to Sheerness to catch the Olau Line ferry.
The nearly took was the Cruise Liner connection to Southampton Docks, which my dad refused to pay the extra for, so ended up getting the service train to Southampton Central!

Are there still Ocean Liner Trains to Southampton? Docks, Terminus, Central or wherever.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Are there still Ocean Liner Trains to Southampton? Docks, Terminus, Central or wherever.

Long gone - Altantic ships and stations alike. Southampton only plays host to container ships and pleasure cruise ships these years.

 

[Harlequinuk]

Are there still Ocean Liner Trains to Southampton? Docks, Terminus, Central or wherever.

The ocean liner terminus did close a few decades ago

 

[WesternLancer]

Are there still Ocean Liner Trains to Southampton? Docks, Terminus, Central or wherever.

Relatively recently there was a charter train service for cruise ship passengers from north of England but I think it ceased operating pre Covid sort of time.

It was offered to me once as an extra add on with a p&o cruise booking but foolishly I didn’t opt for it.

 

[Davester50]

Relatively recently there was a charter train service for cruise ship passengers from north of England but I think it ceased operating pre Covid sort of time.

It was offered to me once as an extra add on with a p&o cruise booking but foolishly I didn’t opt for it.

Yes, I think it was Stobart Rail?
Remember seeing an advert for it leaving from Glasgow for a Southampton cruise I was humming and hawing about.

 

[nw1]

Fond memories of CEP+MLV lashups on Channel Trains from Victoria to Dover Western Docks and Folkestone Harbour. Great start and end to Interrail adventures in the early 90's.

Interesting to note these still ran in the early 90s but I guess they kept going until Eurostar.

I do remember there were many boat trains still in summer 1987. I spent one day at Tonbridge in August 1987 and was surprised to see just how many boat trains there were. Possibly about one per hour in each direction; on the public timetable only one train per hour was timetabled non-stop through Tonbridge in each direction (the Charing Cross-Dover fast) but in actuality, around 2 trains per hour in each direction went straight through. I must have figured out the extras were boat trains, having vaguely heard of their existence.

It also meant I racked up my CEP count (having seen only a few until then) much more than I was expecting! Most were 12CEP + MLV, if I remember right.

 

[billio]

Did boat trains run to Fleetwood about 1950 because I have a very distant memory of standing as a small child on the footplate of what I was told was one. If true did it come from Manchester?

 

[30907]

Did boat trains run to Fleetwood about 1950 because I have a very distant memory of standing as a small child on the footplate of what I was told was one. If true did it come from Manchester?

They did (checked 1955) as the IoM service operated from Fleetwood then.

 

[Snow1964]

Back in 1970s and 1980s there were Waterloo - Lymington Pier Summer Saturday trains connecting with Sealink ferries to Yarmouth.

From memory were either pairs of 4CIGs or 4VEPs

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Back in 1970s and 1980s there were Waterloo - Lymington Pier Summer Saturday trains connecting with Sealink ferries to Yarmouth.

From memory were either pairs of 4CIGs or 4VEPs

A lightly loaded 8 VEP on the day I rode it............1980's .......(no diary kept !)

 

[D6130]

A lightly loaded 8 VEP on the day I rode it............1980's .......(no diary kept !)

In view of the fact that the Lymington branch was restricted to a four car unit - or a pair of 2-HAPs - running in series only, due to power supply constraints, did they uncouple one of the units at Brockenhurst?

 

[Harlequinuk]

Interesting to note these still rain in the early 90s but I guess they kept going until Eurostar.

I do remember there were many boat trains still in summer 1987. I spent one day at Tonbridge in August 1987 and was surprised to see just how many boat trains there were. Possibly about one per hour in each direction; on the public timetable only one train per hour was timetabled non-stop through Tonbridge in each direction (the Charing Cross-Dover fast) but in actuality, around 2 trains per hour in each direction went straight through. I must have figured out the extras were boat trains, having vaguely heard of their existence.

It also meant I racked up my CEP count (having seen only a few until then) much more than I was expecting! Most were 12CEP + MLV, if I remember right.

I remember them as cep>bep>cep>mlv

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In view of the fact that the Lymington branch was restricted to a four car unit - or a pair of 2-HAPs - running in series only, due to power supply constraints, did they uncouple one of the units at Brockenhurst?

Good point - a sole "HAP" would have been more than enough on the branch. ! Maybe they did uncouple at Brockenhurst........

 

[Snow1964]

In view of the fact that the Lymington branch was restricted to a four car unit - or a pair of 2-HAPs - running in series only, due to power supply constraints, did they uncouple one of the units at Brockenhurst?

I think they tolerated it then, the pier platform could take 8car. As shorter trains ran between the Waterloo trains, the substation at Lymington Junction could cool off between.

8VEP was nearer 2000HP with no fancy electronics complaining about low voltage. A class 450 is nearer 1500HP (electronically restricted), or from memory 2050HP (when unlimited, which is nowhere on SWR territory)

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I think they tolerated it then, the pier platform could take 8car. As shorter trains ran between the Waterloo trains, the substation at Lymington Junction could cool off between.

8VEP was nearer 2000HP with no fancy electronics complaining about low voltage. A class 450 is nearer 1500HP (electronically restricted), or from memory 2050HP (when unlimited, which is nowhere on SWR territory)

The 1983 Working TT is available on 'Timetable World' (free to view).

1983 SR

10.00 off Waterloo (Head Code 97) - calling Woking(u), Southampton, Brockenhurst, Lymington Town and Pier. No mention of splitting.

 

[Brightonboy]

Long gone - Altantic ships and stations alike. Southampton only plays host to container ships and pleasure cruise ships these years.

Not strictly true. Cunard's Queen Mary 2 still provides year round transatlantic crossings to New York (7 days each way, non-stop) with cruises interspersed between the crossings. The QM2 is still described as the world's last ocean liner and is built differently to cruise ships in order to withstand bad weather in ocean waters. You can even take dogs & cats on the crossings!

However, I suspect that the passenger base for such sailings (2500, iirc) would have such disparate UK destinations/departure points that the numbers willing to travel by boat train would be too few to make such a service viable unless it was to the north of England with multiple calling points.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Not strictly true. Cunard's Queen Mary 2 still provides year round transatlantic crossings to New York (7 days each way, non-stop) with cruises interspersed between the crossings. The QM2 is still described as the world's last ocean liner and is built differently to cruise ships in order to withstand bad weather in ocean waters. You can even take dogs & cats on the crossings!

However, I suspect that the passenger base for such sailings (2500, iirc) would have such disparate UK destinations/departure points that the numbers willing to travel by boat train would be too few to make such a service viable unless it was to the north of England with multiple calling points.

Absolutely and my "long-gone" reply was in the context of dedicated trains to dedicated Southampton railway termini. I didn't visit Southampton's Canute Road area until long after a "wander in" general access to Ocean Docks had ceased.

 

[nw1]

I remember them as cep>bep>cep>mlv

BEPs were gone from the SED by 1987, for quite a few years AFAIK. By that time, all BEPs were on the SWD (refurbished 2301-2307).

 

[eastwestdivide]

Yes, the BEPs went for refurbishment and didn't come back to their former base of Ramsgate.

 

[nw1]

Good point - a sole "HAP" would have been more than enough on the branch. ! Maybe they did uncouple at Brockenhurst........

I have the 1981 and 1982 CWNs and these definitely show 8-car formations throughout. In 1981 and 1982 there was one down (1000) and two up (1100 and 1205).
The 1000 down and 1205 up was 8CIG in 1981 and 8VEP in 1982, while the 1100 up was 8VEP in both years.

The 8VEP forming the 1100 up went empty Eastleigh to Brockenhurst and worked down to Pier in service.

Additionally I used the down through service (likely the 1000 down) between Brockenhurst and Lymington Pier on the 21 June 1986 Network Day, when it was again 8VEP.

The regular Saturday shuttle unit (4VEP in 1981, don't have SO info for 1982) appeared to layover in Brockenhurst while the through services were down the branch.

Finally the Mon-Fri shuttle was a single 2HAP, due presumably to less IoW visitors during the week.

In terms of service levels, the branch only got a half-hourly service on Summer Saturdays. At other times it was hourly, with a 33-min layover at Brockenhurst every hour on Mon-Fri for example. Another curiosity is that when the through services to Waterloo ran, the following shuttle services only ran to Town due to the through up services being slightly off-pattern and there wasn't time for the following shuttle to get to Pier and back.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Not strictly true. Cunard's Queen Mary 2 still provides year round transatlantic crossings to New York (7 days each way, non-stop) with cruises interspersed between the crossings. The QM2 is still described as the world's last ocean liner and is built differently to cruise ships in order to withstand bad weather in ocean waters. You can even take dogs & cats on the crossings!

However, I suspect that the passenger base for such sailings (2500, iirc) would have such disparate UK destinations/departure points that the numbers willing to travel by boat train would be too few to make such a service viable unless it was to the north of England with multiple calling points.

Even if there was a operable route with sufficient demand to justify a dedicated boat train service, there's the problem of timing. In my experience, ships (cruises and QM2 transatlantic crossings) arrive early morning and disembark passengers around 07:00-08;30, then embark passengers for the next voyage in early afternoon, say 14:00-15:00. So it might just be possible to operate to Birmingham and back (with very little margin for delay); anything further would need two one-way trains and all the associated extra costs.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Even if there was a operable route with sufficient demand to justify a dedicated boat train service, there's the problem of timing. In my experience, ships (cruises and QM2 transatlantic crossings) arrive early morning and disembark passengers around 07:00-08;30, then embark passengers for the next voyage in early afternoon, say 14:00-15:00. So it might just be possible to operate to Birmingham and back (with very little margin for delay); anything further would need two one-way trains and all the associated extra costs.

Having had a life times trip to NYC on the QM2 some years ago , we did the simple thing and got a taxi from Southampton Central to the berth and boarded easily - the last sailing of the year , and ran into some bad weather in the Atlantic , neccesitating a slight diversion to avoid the heavy seas . We were into Brooklyn some days later , and the MTA of course did not provide bespoke subway specials to get us to Manhatten Island - we got another cab !

Slightly off topic perhaps .........epic trip though.

 

[75A]

Here's an unusual one:
Liverpool Lime St to Newhaven Marine midweek in the early 80's.
It was a Football Special for a Liverpool game in France.
We picked it up @ Clapham Junction and ran non stop to Lewes where another Brighton crew took it down to the sea. It was hauled by a single Crompton.

 

[WesternLancer]

Here's an unusual one:
Liverpool Lime St to Newhaven Marine midweek in the early 80's.
It was a Football Special for a Liverpool game in France.
We picked it up @ Clapham Junction and ran non stop to Lewes where another Brighton crew took it down to the sea. It was hauled by a single Crompton.

Fascinating. Where did the Compton start? Not in Liverpool presumably?

 

[Sun Chariot]

Fascinating. Where did the Compton start? Not in Liverpool presumably?

Clapham Jcn, where Big Jumby 74's crew picked it up?