Historical Boat trains

[Shimbleshanks]

I was taking a trip down Memory Lane with a friend the other day when the talk turned to various jaunts abroad that we took.

I recalled my Interail trip in 1980, which I started off on the Newhaven to Dieppe ferry. (The deal with the Interail card was that they offered you a cheap rate on the journey from the UK to France via that route, whereas it was slightly dearer on the short-sea crossings from Dover or Folkestone.) I recall taking a train from London. Would it have been a boat train of some sort into Newhaven Marine or is it possible that I took a service train to Seaford and walked from Newhaven Harbour? It was a day sailing.

The other trip, which we did together in about 1986, was a cheap day return from London to Calais via Folkestone. Again, would we have used a boat train of some sort into Folkestone Harbour, rather than a service train to Folkestone West and walking to the port? Neither of us can recall walking across Folkestone, so that would suggest we used a boat train, even though it was a cheap day return deal.

Any timetable experts out there who can shed light on this?

 

[DarloRich]

Would it have been a boat train of some sort into Newhaven Marine or is it possible that I took a service train to Seaford and walked from Newhaven Harbour? It was a day sailing.

I did that route as a kid on a school trip to France - my memory ( that could be false - memory being what it is) was that we took an express old style unit from London straight to Newhaven Marine and pulled up with the ferry alongside. It was dark when we got there.

 

[Western Gaffer]

There was a previous thread on here about boat trains to Newhaven Marine in the 1980s:

Newhaven Marine boat trains

Hello all, Does anyone have the departure/arrival times for Newhaven-Victoria boat trains in the late 80s? I've got the 1986 timetable here (the year of the short-lived InterCity Newhaven-Manchester trains), and there's no mention of any Victoria services. Instead, there are a couple of...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[CW2]

I've got a few old Thomas Cook timetables in the archive. December 1981 the direct services were Victoria dep 0750 Newhaven Harbour arr 0912. Newhaven Harbour dep 1726 Victoria arr 1846.

1986 I only have the October edition, which is a bit complicated by us not adjusting the clocks at the same time as everyone else! Basically Victoria dep 1100/1200 Folkestone Harbour arr 1225/1325. Folkestone Harbour dep 1620/1720 and 1850/1950, Victoria arr 1824/1924 and 2114/2214. In each case, later times applied Sep 28 - Oct 25.

 

[Sun Chariot]

In summer 1986, there was a boat train arriving into Victoria late morning.
I photographed it in May.
Does any forum reader know the starting point for that boat train?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I did a cheap "day" trip around 1980 with Prinz Ferries (Prinz Oberon) from Harwich (Admiralty Quay) to Bremerhaven in Germany.
The ticket included a normal service train from Liverpool St to Harwich Town, and also a free ticket for the connecting Bremerhaven Haven-Bremen Hbf train on the other side, a trip of 70km or so with a loco and coaches.
It was 14 hours each way on the ferry, an hour each way on the train to Bremen and maybe 5 hours in Bremen.
It was in February in a very snowy winter; Essex was bad enough but Germany was snow-bound with high drifts and on the day had thick freezing fog.
So I didn't see much of the sights of Bremen.
The ferry terminal at Bremerhaven Columbuskaje is now a major cruise terminal, but I don't believe there is a passenger train service to the harbour any more, though the tracks are still there for freight. There is a shuttle bus from Hbf for the cruise terminal.
The Harwich ferry, and Prinz Ferries (which became part of DFDS), are long gone.

 

[jfollows]

For example, Newhaven up afternoon boat train from the WE working timetable 16/5/83 to 13/5/84 attached.
I did it on a return from Italy via Paris and, naturally, Dieppe in late summer 1982 (I think).

 

[CW2]

In summer 1986, there was a boat train arriving into Victoria late morning.
I photographed it in late May. MLVs 68005 + 68003 leading three 4CEP (all 14 carriages in L&SE "jaffa"), shortly before that day's VSOE departed around noon, behind an "early-IC" liveried 73123 (the entire cabs were yellow)

Does any forum reader know the starting point for that boat train?

0940 ex Dover Western Docks due Victoria 1105 would seem a likely candidate.

 

[Sun Chariot]

0940 ex Dover Western Docks due Victoria 1105 would seem a likely candidate.

Brilliant, many thanks

 

[32475]

This has sent me down memory lane too particularly about the Vic - Newhaven boat trains. As a youngster we moved to Burgess Hill in early 1967 and my bedroom window had an uninterrupted view of the line from Keymer Junction to Lewes. I distinctly remember class 73 hauled boat trains and possibly even Bulleid electric locos on these (all Mk 1s plus luggage vans). At some point the ‘boat trains’ just became standard EMUs but I really can’t remember when.

 

[jfollows]

This has sent me down memory lane too particularly about the Vic - Newhaven boat trains. As a youngster we moved to Burgess Hill in early 1967 and my bedroom window had an uninterrupted view of the line from Keymer Junction to Lewes. I distinctly remember class 73 hauled boat trains and possibly even Bulleid electric locos on these (all Mk 1s plus luggage vans). At some point the ‘boat trains’ just became standard EMUs but I really can’t remember when.

EL in 1959, EMU by 1972, they are the only working timetables I have I think.

 

[Sun Chariot]

EL in 1959, EMU by 1972, they are the only working timetables I have I think.

A few years ago, I saw a super photo (via Google images): a boat train hauled by an electric-blue 71. I've no idea which of the class carried that livery but it really suited.

 

[30907]

The other trip, which we did together in about 1986, was a cheap day return from London to Calais via Folkestone. Again, would we have used a boat train of some sort into Folkestone Harbour, rather than a service train to Folkestone West and walking to the port?

Do you remember whether you left from Victoria or Charing Cross? Vic would definitely be a boat train; I have a vague recollection of a Charing X service (0755?) detaching a Harbour portion at Central, but that may have been for the Hovercraft.

 

[eastwestdivide]

In summer 1986, there was a boat train arriving into Victoria late morning.
I photographed it in late May. MLVs 68005 + 68003 leading three 4CEP (all 14 carriages in L&SE "jaffa"), shortly before that day's VSOE departed around noon, behind an "early-IC" liveried 73123 (the entire cabs were yellow)

Does any forum reader know the starting point for that boat train?

Quite unusual to have 2 MLVs.
As for the starting point, does your photo show the 2-digit headcode? 46 for Dover WD, 56 for Folkestone Harbour.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I took the Weymouth Boat train a few times. 33 hauled to Bournemouth and Class 73 haulage from there.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Quite unusual to have 2 MLVs.
As for the starting point, does your photo show the 2-digit headcode? 46 for Dover WD, 56 for Folkestone Harbour.

It should do. The photos are stored away in the loft. I'll have a rummage at some point.

I'd forgotten Folkestone Harbour was still an active harbour point at that time. I only travelled the Harbour branch once - EPB 5001 and, ironically, a pair of MLVs hauled us beyond the station, to the very end of the branch.

 

[75A]

Newhaven Harbour and Newhaven Marine were two different stations.
Coming in from the Lewes direction in went Newhaven Town, Newhaven Harbour then the line went to the right to Newhaven Marine where you were alongside the ferry., or carried on to Bishopstone and terminated @ Seaford.
The line to Seaford could only cope with 4 car trains due to electrical issues.
The Marine services were longer and would terminate @ the Marine stations.
In the early 80's I was on the footplate of a football special from Liverpool Lime Street which we picked up @ Clapham Junction hauled by a 33 which went to the Marine station en route to St Etienne I believe.
In recent times Southern used the Marina to berth trains used by Brighton fans on matchday(Falmer) as they were more than 4 cars.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I've got a few old Thomas Cook timetables in the archive. December 1981 the direct services were Victoria dep 0750 Newhaven Harbour arr 0912. Newhaven Harbour dep 1726 Victoria arr 1846.

Newhaven Harbour and Newhaven Marine were two different stations

Boat trains from Victoria ran to Newhaven Marine. in Thos. Cook TTs however it is shown as Newhaven Harbour, both on the timetable page and on the little map of Newhaven which shows two almost adjacent Newhaven Harbour stations.

 

[Magdalia]

I did a cheap "day" trip around 1980 with Prinz Ferries (Prinz Oberon) from Harwich (Admiralty Quay) to Bremerhaven in Germany.

There were Prins Ferries boat trains to/from Harwich Town up to the May 1979 timetable change.

A few years ago, I saw a super photo (via Google images): a boat train hauled by an electric-blue 71. I've no idea which of the class carried that livery but it really suited.

This has sent me down memory lane too particularly about the Vic - Newhaven boat trains. As a youngster we moved to Burgess Hill in early 1967 and my bedroom window had an uninterrupted view of the line from Keymer Junction to Lewes. I distinctly remember class 73 hauled boat trains and possibly even Bulleid electric locos on these (all Mk 1s plus luggage vans). At some point the ‘boat trains’ just became standard EMUs but I really can’t remember when.

The Bulleid electrics E20001, E20002 and E20003 were used on the Newhaven boat trains. E20001 definitely got blue livery. They were withdrawn during the 1968/69 winter.

EL in 1959, EMU by 1972, they are the only working timetables I have I think.

I have a 1969 WTT. The trains were 0950 Victoria-Newhaven Harbour and 1718 Newhaven Harbour-Victoria. Route code was 76 and the trains were booked EDL. They only ran loco hauled until 12/10/69 and from 16/03/70. In the winter dates the up working was still a separate train but the down working was a portion of 0950 Victoria-Ore detached at Lewes.

 

[75A]

Electric Train Headcodes:
Brighton to Seaford via Newhaven Harbour 42
Victoria to Newhaven Harbour via the Quarry 52, from London Bridge 53
Victoria to Newhaven Harbour via Redhill 62, from London Bridge 63

 

[yorksrob]

I'd forgotten Folkestone Harbour was still an active harbour point at that time. I only travelled the Harbour branch once - EPB 5001 and, ironically, a pair of MLVs hauled us beyond the station, to the very end of the branch.

Yes, I was on the morning one of those

Folkestone Harbour soldiered on until about 2008-9 for the Orient Express and specials

 

[Wyrleybart]

Just looked back through my notes
Friday 21st May 1982 i did "boat train" Victoria-Folkestone Harbour for the Prinz Philipe to Oostende for train D227 1707 Oostende-Wien.
Same ship back to Folkestone harbour and unrecorded units back to Victoria.

Fast forward to Saturday 26th October 1985 and the 2140 boat train from Victoria for Newhaven Marine was formed 1601+1526+1503+68010 for the "Senlac" to Dieppe. The 0440 boat train to Paris St Lazare was 67376 to Rouen then 17040 to Paris.
Can't find my return details but similar journey in March 1986 where I did a Gatwick Express unit formed of 73126+9102 for the Newhaven boat train formed of 1565+1563+68009. The Chantilly took me across the channel and 67382 worked to Rouen for 17048 to St Lazare. Returning on Thursday 20th March, 17025, then 67472 worked the boat train to Dieppe. The Chantilly back to Newhaven for 68002+1522+1502+1521 back to Victoria

Monday 20th July 1987 found me on the 2045 Victoria - Dover marine worked by 1617+1561+3172+68008 for the Princess Marie Christine to Ostende
Returned to the UK on 30th July courtesy of the Koningen Beatrix from Hoek van Holland to Parkeston Quay for the Great Eastern Boat train worked by 86233.

The last journey which should have been a boat train was a bit of a disaster. Friday 23rd September 1988 we were returning from East Germany via Nurnberg aiming for the 1645 jetfoil from Oostende but it was cancelled due to a force 9 in the channel, so two of us continued on the Princess Marie Christine, but the boat train had long gone when we eventually docked so we ended up on a 4 VEP to Waterloo arrving past midnight.

Hope this is of interest

 

[Sun Chariot]

Yes, I was on the morning one of those

Folkestone Harbour soldiered on until about 2008-9 for the Orient Express and specials

The "Emerald Water Witch" - what a cracking railtour that was

The last 2 services 29th January 2009 and 24th March 2009 (if.my memory serves me right). Tangmere was on the former, Oliver Cromwell on the latter.
I had the good fortune to watch both and they each made more than o e ascent of the branch.
The Bulleid Light Pacific's ascent was utterly volcanic.
The Britannia's slightly less so; but its 2-cylinder bark was immense.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Do you remember whether you left from Victoria or Charing Cross? Vic would definitely be a boat train; I have a vague recollection of a Charing X service (0755?) detaching a Harbour portion at Central, but that may have been for the Hovercraft.

At this distance in time, no idea. It could have been either TBH.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2023 ==

This has sent me down memory lane too particularly about the Vic - Newhaven boat trains. As a youngster we moved to Burgess Hill in early 1967 and my bedroom window had an uninterrupted view of the line from Keymer Junction to Lewes. I distinctly remember class 73 hauled boat trains and possibly even Bulleid electric locos on these (all Mk 1s plus luggage vans). At some point the ‘boat trains’ just became standard EMUs but I really can’t remember when.

Pretty certain they were EMUs, not loco-hauled.

 

[Taunton]

Am I correct that the Newhaven boat trains were operated by the SE Division from Stewarts Lane? They seemed to run with CEP (and MLV - see above) units, which there were few of on the Central Division, and left like other boat trains from the SE side of Victoria, crossing over outside.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

The one time I used the up train I managed the still rare track form Pouparts Jct, past Stewart’s Lane low level and into the Southeastern side of Victoria.

 

[32475]

This has sent me down memory lane too particularly about the Vic - Newhaven boat trains. As a youngster we moved to Burgess Hill in early 1967 and my bedroom window had an uninterrupted view of the line from Keymer Junction to Lewes. I distinctly remember class 73 hauled boat trains and possibly even Bulleid electric locos on these (all Mk 1s plus luggage vans). At some point the ‘boat trains’ just became standard EMUs but I really can’t remember when.

I’ve just done a Google image search for Newhaven boat train and there’s a good photo of class 73 E6040 hauling the Victoria to Newhaven boat train at Wivelsfield in July 1967 which confirms my early memory. Mark 1 stock with carriage boards. Happy days!

 

[yorksrob]

The "Emerald Water Witch" - what a cracking railtour that was

The last 2 services 29th January 2009 and 24th March 2009 (if.my memory serves me right). Tangmere was on the former, Oliver Cromwell on the latter.
I had the good fortune to watch both and they each made more than o e ascent of the branch.
The Bulleid Light Pacific's ascent was utterly volcanic.
The Britannia's slightly less so; but its 2-cylinder bark was immense.

It was indeed. The Folkestone mainline still had its quadruple formation.

I visited it on the Thumper on Christmas 2008 so maybe that was the third to last !

 

[Sun Chariot]

It was indeed. The Folkestone mainline still had its quadruple formation.

I visited it on the Thumper on Christmas 2008 so maybe that was the third to last !

You're absolutely right, the Christmas 2008 Thumper was the last traction other than the 2 steam trips in early 2009.
I wish I'd heard the EE engine labouring up the 1 in 30.

 

[yorksrob]

You're absolutely right, the Christmas 2008 Thumper was the last traction other than the 2 steam trips in early 2009.
I wish I'd heard the EE engine labouring up the 1 in 30.

It was quite impressive. Watched it do an extra trip up to the junction.