Have you become... Unemployable?

[GS250]

Because they want to tempt those of us in our 50s and early 60s who've decided not to work any more to do so. Personally, taking home £15 an hour rather than £10 wouldn't change my mind but I can see that it could work for someone who's bored, struggling financially, saving up for a major expense or even fed up with babysitting the grandchildren. More economic activity is a good thing, even if it's not directly taxed.

I think there's more than just financial situations that are responsible for those pulling out of the Labour market in their 50s and 60s.

Work culture, feeling constantly undervalued down the years in spite of being the demographic who actually know the job inside out, having to answer to graduates who have immediately risen in status and rank yet are reliant on the more experienced workers to do their job.

 

[Simon11]

No....we are no longer 'unemployable'!!!!

https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/12/over...me-tax-to-tempt-people-back-to-work-18087096/

Surely this could also encourage people to leave the workplace!

If I was 50 and income tax was exempt for a year, I would leave work at 50 and then return a year (or whatever the rules state), then return to work for a whole year 'tax free' then retire again.

 

[Dai Corner]

I think there's more than just financial situations that are responsible for those pulling out of the Labour market in their 50s and 60s.

Work culture, feeling constantly undervalued down the years in spite of being the demographic who actually know the job inside out, having to answer to graduates who have immediately risen in status and rank yet are reliant on the more experienced workers to do their job.

Also poor health, which was my main reason. Some of the other factors you mention were relevant too though.

I'm just glad I could!

 

[Broucek]

The whole thing is unworkable. A crude and extremely generous cut for certain people based on age (regardless of skills) will lead to all kind of unfairness, complications and unintended consequences. I could just about understand it if they were trying to (say) get some retired doctors or nurses back but even that would be a bit silly.

Frankly, the gov't needs to decide whether it wants to

a. encourage people to work harder/for longer by keeping taxes low (within reason), simple and fair (Truss); or
b. get people to pay lots of tax to fund services/reduce the national debt etc. (Sunak)

Having seemingly decided on (b) coming up with bits of badly-targeted meddling is really not the answer.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I retired a few years ago, not sure how much "work" has changed, or whether I could get a job now. I am glad not to have to work. But I am still qualified for occasional voluntary work, very good.
..
More employment/economic activity/growth entails more consumption of resources and should be discouraged, I think.

 

[najaB]

More employment/economic activity/growth entails more consumption of resources and should be discouraged, I think.

Counterpoint: increased economic activity results in higher tax revenue to support public services.

 

[johncrossley]

More employment/economic activity/growth entails more consumption of resources and should be discouraged, I think.

What's the alternative to work if you haven't got enough money to retire? Universal basic income?

 

[Broucek]

What's the alternative to work if you haven't got enough money to retire? Universal basic income?

Some people want us to regress to the middle ages....

 

[trainmania100]

Deleted

 

[Simon11]

I don't know about unemployable but I know what you mean. I'm 26, been in the same job for 7 years and my role which started out as web developer has diversified so much. I'm now doing accounting on Xero, managing company events, web design development, running a 50+ page magazine every month, managing over 200 customers, training up foreign franchisees in using our software...ALL for minimum wage.

It's a small family run business so understand that there will be some diversification in tasks, but it is now just taking the p***.

I've handed in my resignation, I hope I've done the right thing.

If your workload was increasing constantly but the wage was always minimum, would you quit / on the above circumstances?

My number 1 tip (or maybe one of the top) is at the start of your career to move around the industry. Helps you gain experience, contacts, understand what you enjoy and most importantly increase your salary/ benefits.

Thus 1-2 years is a good idea and thus never stay 7 years in your first full time job! Too easy to get comfortable and be taken advantage of, which I see with too many of my friends who haven't moved any remain in a rubbish job with bad pay and conditions.

One of my friends gets an extra day off each year for each year of service, up to a maximum of five. He thus sticks around as he has earned his extra five days of leave and likes the extra leave. What he has forgotten is that he could likely get far more time off in another job if he opened his eyes!

Now I have a family, I am settling down with my current employer which ticks all the boxes for me and more but I have only got here from jumping ships many time to get here!

 

[trainmania100]

Deleted

 

[david1212]

My core skill set is 'proper' electronics i.e. resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, discrete IC's. Back 20 years ago I did start to learn microcontroller programming and ' upgraded ' my ordinary degree from almost 20 years earlier to a 1st Class Honours Degree. My plan was to join a company at graduate level to develop my new skills expecting to move faster up the ladder. However given even then many companies were not recruiting due to the lack of definite long term business I could not find an opening. The flip side of the coin is that my current employer would struggle to find somebody with my traditional skills applied to the needs of the business.
However should this job or the company cease to exist before my pension and savings will provide what to me is a comfortable retirement with some contingency debatable what I could find that would pay more than e.g. supermarket checkout operating

 

[trebor79]

My number 1 tip (or maybe one of the top) is at the start of your career to move around the industry. Helps you gain experience, contacts, understand what you enjoy and most importantly increase your salary/ benefits.

Thus 1-2 years is a good idea and thus never stay 7 years in your first full time job! Too easy to get comfortable and be taken advantage of, which I see with too many of my friends who haven't moved any remain in a rubbish job with bad pay and conditions.

This isn't really sound advice. It all depends. I was nearly 12 years with my first employer and went from a graduate trainee to mid-senior management.
I'm currently working my notice at my second employer. So I will be on my third employer in nearly 20 years post-university.

Obviously if you're in a dead end job, don't stick around. But if you're getting skill, experience and promotions then sticking around can be the best course of action.

 

[Broucek]

My core skill set is 'proper' electronics i.e. resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, discrete IC's. Back 20 years ago I did start to learn microcontroller programming and ' upgraded ' my ordinary degree from almost 20 years earlier to a 1st Class Honours Degree.

To some extent we all need to think about the mental and behavioural capabilities we have (which are somewhat inherent) rather than specific technical skills (which can be taught). Anyone who was able to master the areas you mention above should be able to learn other reasonably technical stuff.

The context is the UK (along with many other European countries) has an enormous labour squeeze already which is likely to get worse without higher levels of skilled immigration than may be politically acceptable. As a result, companies are (or will need to start) thinking more creatively about who they could hire.

 

[david1212]

To some extent we all need to think about the mental and behavioural capabilities we have (which are somewhat inherent) rather than specific technical skills (which can be taught). Anyone who was able to master the areas you mention above should be able to learn other reasonably technical stuff.

The context is the UK (along with many other European countries) has an enormous labour squeeze already which is likely to get worse without higher levels of skilled immigration than may be politically acceptable. As a result, companies are (or will need to start) thinking more creatively about who they could hire.

.... with the proviso of real world mentoring. So many companies are running on minimum staff and when a core person leaves there is nobody to step up with a new employee coming in down the chain and being on-the-job trained. The only option is someone who can hit the ground running. At the time management e.g. head of department say we must not get into this position again but head office do not release the funding.


Go back 30 years and there were numerous companies in the area requiring my core skill set. The majority of companies where this was their core business have closed and large companies with an internal department even if they still exist at all have closed the department. I know this because of the approaches made to my current employer.

 

[Phil56]

Surely this could also encourage people to leave the workplace!

If I was 50 and income tax was exempt for a year, I would leave work at 50 and then return a year (or whatever the rules state), then return to work for a whole year 'tax free' then retire again.

That makes no sense. You'd lose a full year of pay, just to return for a year to save paying 20% of part of your wage for the year after? You'd be worse off.

 

[najaB]

That makes no sense. You'd lose a full year of pay, just to return for a year to save paying 20% of part of your wage for the year after? You'd be worse off.

I assume this was predicated on being in the position where early retirement was a possibility.

 

[Phil56]

Thus 1-2 years is a good idea and thus never stay 7 years in your first full time job!

I agree with that. All my jobs have been 2-3 years on average. Least was 1 year, most was 4. That's not necessarily moving employers, but certainly moving between departments or getting internal promotions within the same dept.

Personally, I think 2 years doing the same thing is long enough. It's long enough to learn the skills etc to do "that" job, and unless you have absolutely no ambition, there's no point in just doing the same thing over and over again, month after month, year after year.

Most training/apprentice jobs will have some kind of progression built in, i.e. may be the same place/same "job" as such but doing more technical/complex work after you've mastered the basics. That's fine whilst you're learning and progressing, but when it starts to get stale, it's time to move on.

If you're in an organisation which lets you progress, i.e. different depts or move up into supervisory/management roles, etc., then fair enough, no need to move employer (but still a good idea to move anyway especially if pay and other benefits aren't increasing commensurately), but if not, then best to move to other employers to climb the career ladder.

I did a mix of both. First job was entry level trainee, where I developed quickly and within 18 months or so was at the same working "standard" as co-workers, but pay rises were slow and I was earning a lot less then older work-mates, just because I was young! I kicked them into touch and worked for another firm. First year was in a pretty awful working condition (branch where the manager was awful), so I asked for a move and was moved sideways to their head office, I did 2 years in one dept, then moved to a different dept, so 4 years there in total, but 3 different roles. When I qualified, they didn't increase my salary to a "qualified" level, so I moved to a different firm and doubled my wage. After a few years there, I moved into a different industry but doing the same job. A couple of years there, and I moved back into first industry, but at a senior manager level. I've never regretted any of the moves - at each job I'd put my all in, but if they didn't offer progression and package accordingly, then I moved.

 

[malc-c]

They say revenge is a dish best served cold.... I have been made redundant from three roles due to cut backs etc in my 40+ working life. Back in 2007 I landed a job with a local company which had around 60 office staff, 12 sales reps and 120 engineers, so not a small company. At the time I was the only IT Technician and the IT department was just me and the IT Manager, but we also had a young girl who looked after the provisions of IT equipment such as mobile phones and PDAs for the engineers and sales guys. After a year or so she was moved across to IT on a full time bases and was trained by me or the IT manager to take on issues any staff had and assist with server room stuff so she could provide cover when I was off on holiday. This also meant that the support to the engineers was now under one department. Between us we kept the servers running and resolved issues is a very quick time period.

She then fell pregnant and to cover they employed a temp on a 12 month contract, however it then became clear that she had holiday etc so would be off for 18 months. In that six months I had to do her role as well as my own. It was stressful, busy and I was glad to get through it and see her return. Then came the bombshell, our HR manager targeted a few job roles and make redundancy's, including the IT department. I had my suspicions it was more personal due to other office politics, but had no proof, and given how busy we had been didn't understand why we were classed as overstaffed. Anyway, I ended up being made redundant after they had gone through the proper process, which was biased on some point scoring, but what was done was done. I left in November 2012, but stayed in contact with people in the office and heard that shortly after my co-worker handed in her resignation so she could spend time being a mother and raise her family. Apparently the panic it caused as they only had a month to interview and employ a new technician who could hit the ground running (something that would be hard with a custom bespoke CRM system the company used) made senior management regret their decision of making me redundant. They did approach me to see if I would come back for 6 months as a "consultant" and train the young lad they had employed, which I declined on principle... They ended up outsourcing some of the IT support to a 3rd party company at a huge financial cost compared to my annual salary...

So I got justice in my eyes... getting rid of me backfired and it cost them more in the long run. The SLAs fell through the floor as a result, and things were never as good as they used to be. I then heard that the HR manager that formulated the redundancy had secured a place on the board of directors, but was sacked very quickly after.

 

[GS250]

Attitudes amongst employers might just have to change:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64441775

Dare I say though, if you are mentally, a 'young 50s', then its probably less of a problem. If you appear mentally tired and unwilling to learn much new, that may not help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2023 ==

So I got justice in my eyes... getting rid of me backfired and it cost them more in the long run. The SLAs fell through the floor as a result, and things were never as good as they used to be. I then heard that the HR manager that formulated the redundancy had secured a place on the board of directors, but was sacked very quickly after.

Love this story by the way!!!

 

[malc-c]

Attitudes amongst employers might just have to change:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64441775

Dare I say though, if you are mentally, a 'young 50s', then its probably less of a problem. If you appear mentally tired and unwilling to learn much new, that may not help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2023 ==



Love this story by the way!!!

For me personally I struggle to retain short term memories, and I'm only 60. This may be tied in to depression, or early dementia who knows, but learning something new especially if anything numerical is involved I struggle. I have other health issues which are linked to getting old (prolapsed disks due to normal degeneration of the spine through getting old - consultants words not mine !) which makes physical tasks, especially lifting almost impossible. Mentally I feel I can do loads, but physically I'm restricted, and this doesn't then help with the depression...

Glad you liked the story. Yes it was really nice to hear Kama had come full circle.

Life can deal you a good or bad hand at times. My best mate had never found himself out of work since he left school in 1977, until last year. He somehow managed to walk into a new job on Monday after being made redundant the Friday before. However at 60, post covid he was laid off and had a choice to either sign on for universal credit or cash in on his private pension. He chose the latter, but became bored, so found a part time position in a café for a few hours a day. Other than blood pressure issues which affect most of us as we get older he is fit and well, in a stable relationship and is mortgage free so no worries over the current rates etc.

 

[pethadine82]

Unfortunately computing ICT was one of the subjects I didn’t perform well in. My best subjects were physics and chemistry so I always had a science/engineering career path in mind and did attempt a engineering course at the local college however it as mentioned earlier it caused a lot of problems due to the lack of support given by the college.

Have you ever considered a job in banking or trading? Looking at charts and analysing trends. Lots of scope in that.

 

[GS250]

Have you ever considered a job in banking or trading? Looking at charts and analysing trends. Lots of scope in that.

Business Analyst?

Seems to be a lot of demand for them. Not quite sure what the qualification or experience required is though. Another chicken and egg type scenario though where there's a shortage of those applying for the positions but also a shortage of those willing to onboard those with a qualification but no experience?

 

[GS250]

Just acceptable a fully remote role as an IT Service Delivery Manager.

There's life in the old dog yet!!!

 

[Dai Corner]

Just acceptable a fully remote role as an IT Service Delivery Manager.

There's life in the old dog yet!!!

The best bit being that if you don't ensure IT services are delivered they won't be able to contact you to complain.

 

[Broucek]

Congratulations. And thanks for closing the loop!