Have you become... Unemployable?

[GS250]

Was asking this question of myself recently. Late 40s, 16 years at a large private School, starting off as an out and out IT Technician but have evolved to the ultimate jack of all trades. Literally fingers in all sorts of pies including managing projects, procurement, some tech stuff too. If you was to ask my what my actual job title was I don't think I could fit it into a sentence let alone 2/3 words. If I was to look for something new there isn't really a clearly defined role I'd be applying for. Not tech enough to be a Network Manager or senior Techie of some description. Have probably not worked on enough large projects to be a PM pro but could probably wing it. Team leader? Yeh, maybe.

Anyone else reached this stage of their career?!

Maybe looking to move on soon so am interested to see if anyone else has encountered this possible self realisation.

 

[baz962]

I had a lot of different jobs. Left school and trained as a chef , then delivered parts for a large car dealership group, courier then barman , roadie for DJ , building site labourer. Security starting in gatehouse and then pubs clubs and bars at night and clearing rubbish for a council after their property refurb. Bodyguard for rich and famous. More driving for all the biggies DHL, FedEx etc. Head of security at a casino and then car park assistant/ security at an airport. Was wondering if I would ever settle and then became a train driver at 48 . Took a while and I hope to stick with it until retirement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm in a fairly niche area of IT, but have managed to shift from another similar niche when that went bad so I suspect it could be done again.

Failing anything else I could always become a project manager.

 

[DarloRich]

Was asking this question of myself recently. Late 40s, 16 years at a large private School, starting off as an out and out IT Technician but have evolved to the ultimate jack of all trades. Literally fingers in all sorts of pies including managing projects, procurement, some tech stuff too. If you was to ask my what my actual job title was I don't think I could fit it into a sentence let alone 2/3 words. If I was to look for something new there isn't really a clearly defined role I'd be applying for. Not tech enough to be a Network Manager or senior Techie of some description. Have probably not worked on enough large projects to be a PM pro but could probably wing it. Team leader? Yeh, maybe.

Anyone else reached this stage of their career?!

Maybe looking to move on soon so am interested to see if anyone else has encountered this possible self realisation.

There must be LOADS of transferable skills in your work history there. Anything but unemployable! Maybe focus on the skills not the title. There are loads of PM type jobs out there. it is just about presenting your skills and experiences in the best way.

 

[GS250]

There must be LOADS of transferable skills in your work history there. Anything but unemployable! Maybe focus on the skills not the title. There are loads of PM type jobs out there. it is just about presenting your skills and experiences in the best way.

Agreed. My posting was in a slightly wry, self deprecating manner. I think the natural progression for many of those who started in tech is to evolve into a PM type position. Especially if you are fairly comfortable in dealing with a variety of personality types, senior managers and those at floor level.

I'm in a fairly niche area of IT, but have managed to shift from another similar niche when that went bad so I suspect it could be done again.

Failing anything else I could always become a project manager.

Yes, I guess the issue with specialising is that as a technology evolves you can soon find yourself redundant. Being a generalist means you have to sell your soft skills well I guess. Did actually pass the APMP and PRINCE2 exams although the latter has expired. Did take a look at the latest Azure and Server exams and just thought I'm too old for this!

Probably moving to the Isle of Skye over the next year or so so will be looking for a new income. There are huge opportunities for those willing to embrace the tourist industry ie hosting Air BnB or/and taking them day trips etc. You can earn fairly well doing that although would be on a self employed basis.

 

[Broucek]

There must be LOADS of transferable skills in your work history there. Anything but unemployable! Maybe focus on the skills not the title. There are loads of PM type jobs out there. it is just about presenting your skills and experiences in the best way.

Excellent advice. Employers are REALLY struggling to find capable people right now and you have the sort of skills they need (PM, tech-related) even if not recognised in the right title

 

[najaB]

Maybe looking to move on soon so am interested to see if anyone else has encountered this possible self realisation.

Unemployable? Nope. You might find that - on paper at least - you don't have the qualifications to get a role at a similar salary band as what you're on just now, but that is a far cry from being unemployable.

The key thing there is the "on paper". You have, no doubt, a lot of skills that would be useful to another employer so don't be afraid to either apply for positions that you don't officially qualify for (and be prepared to justify your suitability at the telephone interview stage), or to take a step down on the career ladder in a company that has a lot of opportunities for advancement. One guy who in my office basically did the latter and applied for (and got) a job as a support tech, within a year he was an application engineer and now, after 5 years, is about to be come the first UK-based solutions engineer (it's a position that's existed in the org directory, but we've never had anyone suitably skilled to fill the role so they're basically writing the detailed job description around what he does!).

 

[bleeder4]

I've worked for the same technology company for the last 17 years. Started off in Sales, then moved to Tech Support, then Web Design - now I'm Marketing. Only job role I've not done yet is Accounts. Perhaps that will be next!

Sticking in one single job role for years on end just runs the risk of complacency or stagnation setting in. Whenever I found that happening to me I changed departments and learned a whole new set of skills. The last switch was the most profound. As I got older I found it harder and harder to keep abreast of the latest IT developments - the pace of change is just so rapid - so I made a switch to a role that didn't need me to do that to such an extent.

 

[Snow1964]

Having been made redundant last year when the company I worked for collapsed, have discovered that whilst not unemployable, there is nowadays a huge chasm between what companies offer vs expectations.

Falls into 3 areas
Companies seem to want experience and already trained (many seem to no longer want to train staff)
Salaries and hours, some seem to want contract and zero hours staff, so not offering proper full time job, or making daft requirements that would never have existed few years ago.
Feels like some are using tick lists or computer algorithms to filter applications so anyone who was subject expert, or has multiple skills loses out as not seeing correct number of key words, so not choosing a person (regardless of fit or enthusiasm), but more like lucky match lottery.

The other problem is no one seems to want someone in late 50s in case they don’t fit in with their text speak youths in their teams.

 

[Bayum]

Yes. I’m too high up the pay scale in teaching now to go elsewhere without taking a pay cut. Many schools are in the same position and undergoing ‘restructuring’, aka getting rid of extremely experienced (but expensive) teachers.

 

[najaB]

Feels like some are using tick lists or computer algorithms to filter applications so anyone who was subject expert, or has multiple skills loses out as not seeing correct number of key words, so not choosing a person (regardless of fit or enthusiasm), but more like lucky match lottery.

It sometimes pays to get yourself on a few recruitment companies' lists. I still get the occasional call/email about posts that are vacant despite it being almost six years since I was last looking.

 

[duncanp]

Failing anything else I could always become a project manager.

Some of the "project managers" I came across during my career in I.T. couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.

They had loads of Gantt Charts and project plans that were completely unrealistic, but were very adept at dumping on their subordinates and blame shifting when things went wrong, which was quite frequently.

 

[nlogax]

It sometimes pays to get yourself on a few recruitment companies' lists. I still get the occasional call/email about posts that are vacant despite it being almost six years since I was last looking.

Try fifteen years. I still get emails about IT support positions that I was doing on short term contract basis during a very different part of my life.

 

[SargeNpton]

If I were applying for my job today I wouldn't have sufficient academic qualifications.

However, I do have decades of knowledge of the job - some of which I'm guessing that nobody else currently has who hasn't already retired. All those odd things that can't really be documented, but which you know can or can't be done in certain circumstances.

 

[jfollows]

I last worked for a public sector scientific organisation which had done some work with a large multinational consumer company, and there was a review.
The people I worked with expected comments along the lines of "your coupled quantum chemistry simulation skills could be improved" etc. What they got instead was "your technical skills are brilliant, but you can't deliver anything for toffee because your project management skills are woefully lacking".
My experience is that people who can guide things to happen on time and on budget are the key skills needed, not just where I was but everywhere. I delivered major projects on time and on budget, so I had some of these skills, and I could see them lacking around me.
Being a generalist rather than a specialist can lead down this path - there are plenty of bad project managers of course, but people who can guide, steer, motivate, cajole, even threaten to make things happen as they should are very valuable.
Paper qualifications don't help, but experience does.
Poor project management and poor people management has underpinned poor performance in all the places I have worked, and good management in both disciplines has made a huge difference. I guess the issue is - like my original tale - getting an organisation to understand what it's lacking and why, and then generalist skills and experience can be seen as valuable.

 

[GS250]

Some of the "project managers" I came across during my career in I.T. couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.

They had loads of Gantt Charts and project plans that were completely unrealistic, but were very adept at dumping on their subordinates and blame shifting when things went wrong, which was quite frequently.

Yes. My actual interest in PM came from watching the totally unnecessary failures of others.

Some had seen their achievement of obtaining PRINCE2 certification as being all it required to manage a project. The actual truth is during courses like P2, the trainers make it clear that its simply one tool in your armoury as a PM. You require a fair amount more than that to be okay at it. Another great IT failing is that others were too interested in the actual technology of the project itself to make a sound judgement. Any business case scrutiny was thrown out of the window as they simply wanted to introduce the tech regardless of value delivered to the business. I think what you are describing above is what happens when a project manager doesn't actual perform the role of a project manager. Simply deciding themselves what should happen, when etc than actually collating information from the various stakeholders. Some of that blame though, should lay above the project manager who with a correct structure, should actually be subservient to the steering group. Remember, its usually the steering group who have conceptualised the project and will be the ones monitoring the post project benefits etc. Quite often though the PM has a big project dumped on them and they are left to themselves and often given too much power and expectation.

 

[nw1]

Agreed. My posting was in a slightly wry, self deprecating manner. I think the natural progression for many of those who started in tech is to evolve into a PM type position. Especially if you are fairly comfortable in dealing with a variety of personality types, senior managers and those at floor level.

I don't think you're too old. I'm roughly of the same generation FWIW.

One key thing is you can always learn new skills, in your own time. For example (and it may not be your thing) if you are a software developer and your favoured language/paradigm is getting dated, and not so in-demand nowadays, you can always, in theory (time permitting of course) learn new languages or paradigms in your own time, and build your own "hobby" projects to show to prospective employers to prove you have the skills. I appreciate that this may not be so easy in other areas of IT, such as networking.

 

[johntea]

Look for some IT jobs in the NHS, you could perhaps start as a desktop/community (if you drive of course) support technician at Band 5 (£27k - £33k) and then you can make your way up into more senior roles Band 6/7 roles when they come up

I was a 'senior' technician in education and landed a Band 6 NHS role, which got upgraded a couple of years ago to Band 7 - no people management involved but I took on some project management work to build up my experience in that, which is quite an interesting side although not sure I would like to do project management as a dedicated role personally as it involves a lot of spreadsheets and trying to juggle keeping all project stakeholders happy at once!

Very decent salary compared to education (plus pension scheme), could probably get more going private but the NHS is less stressful (and flexible) to work for than you may think, you certainly get to use your 'jack of all trades' knowledge as one minute you could be supporting a Windows XP medical device that would cost half a million quid to replace and the next supporting an AWS environment for a brand new project!

You do have to brace yourself to become part of an 'on call' rota if you progress past desktop support although I suspect you would get that in any job as you moved up the ranks, sadly unlike education the patients and staff don't all just go home at 3pm! Can be a pain but helps top up the payslip along with overtime opportunities I suppose!

 

[dakta]

This is going to sound a bit cocky and it's not meant that way but at the moment I'm sort of at the other end of the spectrum, I always liked IT and thought I'd go into it but really didn't enjoy Uni, dropped out and lost all motivation.

Ended up amongst other things working in a steel factory, running a small self employed business then by chance got an opportunity to join a company in a junior role in cybersecurity (the joy of connections and people who know what you can do without having to ask for certs). Minor role but after a few good events and a few bad events with lucky outcomes I ended up where I am now which is slowly rising through the security field.

What I did learn earlier in the year was how in demand these sort of roles are, struggle to go a few days without being contacted by some recruiter. For someone with imposter syndrome it's quite comforting.

Don't get me wrong its been hard work, if it's not working then its studying and I bounce of burnout like we love it (and always throwing money at some course or other) but for the first time in life I feel quite safe knowing that even if things dont pan out where I am, I will get somewhere else. One lesson I have learnt is you don't actually need to be that technical, as I've mentored a lot of people who haven't done this kinda work before, the overall attitude and enthusiasm sets the course.

That said in terms of longer term development I'd love to be responsible for a small team, maybe team lead over fully fledged manager but no idea how to jump that gap

 

[Cdd89]

You do have to brace yourself to become part of an 'on call' rota if you progress past desktop support although I suspect you would get that in any job as you moved up the ranks, sadly unlike education the patients and staff don't all just go home at 3pm!

Yes, I would say this is by far the worst aspect of a senior-ish role in IT. And it is common in other sectors, eg in mine we have a global customer base but subject matter experts are only UK based.

To be fair it happens relatively infrequently (a handful of times per year), as problems have to be both sufficiently severe and in my specific field, and it’s absolutely factored into my salary. But there’s something mentally draining about your non-work time not truly being your own.

If I was to look for something new there isn't really a clearly defined role I'd be applying for. Not tech enough to be a Network Manager or senior Techie of some description

IT jobs are often not that much about specific technical knowledge, and rather the biggest learning curve is becoming fluent in the employer’s own highly complex product architecture (and in this sense everyone starts untrained with only generalised skills). I’d therefore consider adding software/hardware companies to your mix, ideally with at least some overlap to your personal interests.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Anyone else reached this stage of their career?!

Same here. I'm on a 9 month break from my career due to a family member's illness (which should be cured by the end of the academic year), so I've gone back to my education and original career, which is teaching. I'm doing this because the hours are very family friendly, but I don't want to be doing this for more than the academic year.

The problem is that between Covid and now this situation, I have a three year gap in my CV where I've done nothing of any particular relevance. Covid for me in work was mostly spent researching new projects for future realisation, but I left because I couldn't commit to implmenting them.

What next is a huge question.

 

[spyinthesky]

Late 50’s with no meaningful qualifications. 28 years as a soldier then didn’t really didn’t have much drive or ambition after that. I just wanted a role where I didn’t have the responsibilities and the salary was not that important.
Ended up now with 8 years in the explosives industry getting higher grade jobs every couple of years and still not remotely qualified for job roles they are almost begging me to accept.
At interviews it seems that I have managed to relate everything back to my military experiences.
They now jokingly call my job role as ‘Common sense engineer’
I do work with a lot of people that are in a rut and it seems that it is the people who don’t like change or the ones that have been in the same role all their working life.
I imagine that I would have progressed further with meaningful qualifications but life experiences have served me well.

 

[GS250]

Late 50’s with no meaningful qualifications. 28 years as a soldier then didn’t really didn’t have much drive or ambition after that. I just wanted a role where I didn’t have the responsibilities and the salary was not that important.
Ended up now with 8 years in the explosives industry getting higher grade jobs every couple of years and still not remotely qualified for job roles they are almost begging me to accept.
At interviews it seems that I have managed to relate everything back to my military experiences.
They now jokingly call my job role as ‘Common sense engineer’
I do work with a lot of people that are in a rut and it seems that it is the people who don’t like change or the ones that have been in the same role all their working life.
I imagine that I would have progressed further with meaningful qualifications but life experiences have served me well.

'Common sense Engineer'. That's a good one. I've been described as the 'glue that holds it all together'.

Another regular theme and I don't know whether this is unique to IT, is team members protesting with the line "I'm not trained, qualified or paid to do this" as yet another new technology is just expected to be supported.

 

[najaB]

Another regular theme and I don't know whether this is unique to IT, is team members protesting with the line "I'm not trained, qualified or paid to do this" as yet another new technology is just expected to be supported.

It's not unique to IT, but the pace of change is much higher.

 

[Ediswan]

It's not unique to IT, but the pace of change is much higher.

Learning new stuff was one of the best bits of the job. Sometimes there was a training course available, but often not.

 

[KeithMcC]

Speaking as someone who has spent life as an engineer, although not always doing much actual engineering, many organisations lack people who can 'self start' and just get things done without needing constant supervision. It is really about being interested in what you are doing and looking around to see how your role fits in to the whole organisation/project.
So having done a variety of things you should be able to bring something to most organisations.
Keeping up with technical developments is really part of life, although given the number of changes coming to my own field, with new legislation on one side and more pressure to think 'sustainability' on the other, I am quite glad that I aim to fully retire next year!
Trying to get through HR departments selection processes is more of a battle. Some years ago I was on a selection panel to select 10 graduates to employ out of the 20 that HR had short listed from several thousand applications. The worrying thing was that it was actually a fairly easy task as 10 of them weren't really suitable, but if the selection process was that bad how many good candidates had been rejected?

 

[GS250]

Speaking as someone who has spent life as an engineer, although not always doing much actual engineering, many organisations lack people who can 'self start' and just get things done without needing constant supervision. It is really about being interested in what you are doing and looking around to see how your role fits in to the whole organisation/project.
So having done a variety of things you should be able to bring something to most organisations.
Keeping up with technical developments is really part of life, although given the number of changes coming to my own field, with new legislation on one side and more pressure to think 'sustainability' on the other, I am quite glad that I aim to fully retire next year!
Trying to get through HR departments selection processes is more of a battle. Some years ago I was on a selection panel to select 10 graduates to employ out of the 20 that HR had short listed from several thousand applications. The worrying thing was that it was actually a fairly easy task as 10 of them weren't really suitable, but if the selection process was that bad how many good candidates had been rejected?

Yes....we ended up having to take control of our recruitment and ensure we are in on it from day one. Job description, received applications, interview process, selection. Granted we aren't really that big a business but big enough to have a 2 person dedicated HR dept.

IT is tricky for HR to deal with as it's usually only those on the inside who what to look for.

 

[D365]

Speaking as someone who has spent life as an engineer, although not always doing much actual engineering, many organisations lack people who can 'self start' and just get things done without needing constant supervision. It is really about being interested in what you are doing and looking around to see how your role fits in to the whole organisation/project.
So having done a variety of things you should be able to bring something to most organisations.
Keeping up with technical developments is really part of life, although given the number of changes coming to my own field, with new legislation on one side and more pressure to think 'sustainability' on the other, I am quite glad that I aim to fully retire next year!
Trying to get through HR departments selection processes is more of a battle. Some years ago I was on a selection panel to select 10 graduates to employ out of the 20 that HR had short listed from several thousand applications. The worrying thing was that it was actually a fairly easy task as 10 of them weren't really suitable, but if the selection process was that bad how many good candidates had been rejected?

As a recent grad myself I appreciate your insight. Fully agree with the bit in bold; I'm lucky to have fallen into a role which plays to my technical strengths and feeds directly into a larger scope of work.

I've also been praised for getting my head down and getting on with my job. The more time I spend in the working world, the more I realise how invaluable that ability is.

With regards to the original question, I do have it in the back of my mind that I don't want to become 'typecast' in this particular role. But I feel that changing paths during a career will always involve an element of 'winging it'. Along with the obligatory imposter syndrome!

 

[route101]

I recently changed roles into a more specialised role in a smaller company, beginning to wonder if it's the right decision. I am older but at the start of my career which makes me quite unique.

 

[johntea]

Learning new stuff was one of the best bits of the job. Sometimes there was a training course available, but often not.

I've always found on the job experience far more valuable than training courses in IT, the problem with said courses is they tend to guide you in a 'perfect' environment that isn't too realistic in the real world!

A bit like how I learn a lot more about railways and other transport just from Railforums I can usually search the likes of Reddit for technical issues and often find a working idea much quicker than going through 'official' sources

I think the last time I actually sat an exam after a training course was for Windows XP which I still include on my CV for some reason! My last employer (many years ago now) used Novell and sent me on some courses for that in the beautiful Coombe Lodge in North Somerset to do so, which included a three course dinner every night as motivation...