Have you become... Unemployable?

[E27007]

It is easy to find yourself sidelined in IT, families of technology come and go, eg those whop acquired extensive knowledge of Wang Word Processor systems which covered small stand alone all the way to major Superminis, the Wang VS. Few saw the IBM PC , Novell Netware, and Wordperfect ( recall that leading programme.) destroy the Wang domination of WP
You need a crystal ball top foresee the future. 40 years of age seemed to be the shelf life of many in IT, I bailed out in my late 30s. Still young enough to retrain in a new line of work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2022 ==

IT Training Courses, are they about equipping you with skills for a job, from personal knoiwledge of these outfits and the people who run them, , more often than not, a Freelance ex - sales person with a set of plagiarised teaching notes and modest knowledge lining their pockets with course fees. IT was / is full of these hangers on, often they are sales people who lost their jobs when they could not meet sales targets, they reappeared as freelance trainers,

 

[birchesgreen]

IT Training Courses, are they about equipping you with skills for a job, from personal knoiwledge of these outfits and the people who run them, , more often than not, a Freelance ex - sales person with a set of plagiarised teaching notes and modest knowledge lining their pockets with course fees. IT was / is full of these hangers on, often they are sales people who lost their jobs when they could not meet sales targets, they reappeared as freelance trainers,

Yes i find most of these useless. They doggedly follow a script and if there is any deviation they often seem completely lost which says everything. To be honest i teach myself anything i need for my job (or interest), there are loads of resources online.

 

[PeterC]

IT can be tricky, get too good at what you are doing and you can end up nursemaiding the legacy stuff. I quit one major company, after finding that my manager was blocking my applications for vacancies (and hence promotion) in other teams.

There were a couple of occasions in my working life where I felt that I had gone down a blind alley but customising my CV to the prospective role rather than having a one size fits all version seemed to do the trick.

 

[malc-c]

It is easy to find yourself sidelined in IT, families of technology come and go, eg those whop acquired extensive knowledge of Wang Word Processor systems which covered small stand alone all the way to major Superminis, the Wang VS. Few saw the IBM PC , Novell Netware, and Wordperfect ( recall that leading programme.) destroy the Wang domination of WP
You need a crystal ball top foresee the future. 40 years of age seemed to be the shelf life of many in IT, I bailed out in my late 30s. Still young enough to retrain in a new line of work.

I got into an IT support role back in the late 90's (I was 37 then), was made redundant due to a restructure after three years, still remained in IT but more as a projects assistant manager having securing the position three months after being made redundant. Two years later was made redundant again due to the company cutting back (company was linked to the stock market which took a hit at the time). By this time the employment market had turned and it took me a year to find suitable employment (when I took on the IT projects position my salary jumped by 10K allowing us to get a mortgage and move home). The more time I was out of work the harder it was to convince the employer as, and I quote, "6 months is a long time in IT and things change". I eventually secured an IT Technician position and remained there for five years before being made redundant once more due to a restructure. I since then been employed in an admin role until a injury and depression has seen me out of work once more.

As to the title of this thread. Yes I'm now unemployable. 61 next birthday, a history of mental health issues in recent years, not able to stand / sit / walk for long due to an injury to my left leg, and recently diagnosed with one or two prolapsed disks caused through degeneration of the spine (old age !!) so can't lift and have to watch how I move. As soon as I declare what life has been like the past couple of years the interview seemed to be terminated fairly quickly after.

 

[GS250]

I got into an IT support role back in the late 90's (I was 37 then), was made redundant due to a restructure after three years, still remained in IT but more as a projects assistant manager having securing the position three months after being made redundant. Two years later was made redundant again due to the company cutting back (company was linked to the stock market which took a hit at the time). By this time the employment market had turned and it took me a year to find suitable employment (when I took on the IT projects position my salary jumped by 10K allowing us to get a mortgage and move home). The more time I was out of work the harder it was to convince the employer as, and I quote, "6 months is a long time in IT and things change". I eventually secured an IT Technician position and remained there for five years before being made redundant once more due to a restructure. I since then been employed in an admin role until a injury and depression has seen me out of work once more.

As to the title of this thread. Yes I'm now unemployable. 61 next birthday, a history of mental health issues in recent years, not able to stand / sit / walk for long due to an injury to my left leg, and recently diagnosed with one or two prolapsed disks caused through degeneration of the spine (old age !!) so can't lift and have to watch how I move. As soon as I declare what life has been like the past couple of years the interview seemed to be terminated fairly quickly after.

Malc, genuinely sorry to hear about your issues there. Mental health especially is not really understood and I believe is far harder to deal with and be accepted as a reason for struggle if you are a man. Hopefully this will change and change fast.

IT projects roles can be great but you are often in the firing line should the economy tank. Those who are doing the actually day to day fixing are usually the last out of the door.

 

[malc-c]

Malc, genuinely sorry to hear about your issues there. Mental health especially is not really understood and I believe is far harder to deal with and be accepted as a reason for struggle if you are a man. Hopefully this will change and change fast.

IT projects roles can be great but you are often in the firing line should the economy tank. Those who are doing the actually day to day fixing are usually the last out of the door.

Thanks for the kind words...often its one day at a time, but otherwise in a reasonably good place mentally at the moment.

The company I worked for as an IT Technician (Projects) to give it the full title offered outsourced support for products such as endowments, ISAs etc some of which were high risk, high return. They occupied four stories of one wing of a nine story building, employing around 300 people. We also set up two remote offices, one in London for around 30 programmers and one locally to handle document processing and statement production. When markets suffered a hit the company needed to reduce its expenditure, so the last project I worked on was to relocate the 60 odd staff on the 4th floor to other floors, and move a server room with the phone system from the 4th floor to the second over an Easter bank holiday. It was 18 hour days but we did it and opened up on the Tuesday with just one out of 300 phones not wanting to play ball. BT had screwed up with the move of the ISDN lines, but we got that resolved. Funny enough I had just got off the phone securing £10K compensation form BT over the cock up when I was called into the directors office and told that the IT projects department was being dissolved, with my manager taking a sideways promotion, and I would be offered alternative position somewhere within the company, or made redundant if that can not be achieved. So yes, being in a department that cost money to run makes you first in line when cut backs are made

 

[GS250]

Looks like the employment market is trying to about turn on its previous policy and tempt those 50 and early 60 somethings back to work. There is now a realisation that its the very demographic that was often overlooked is the one that actually knew how to do the job so to speak. Those who weren't necessarily managerial but who had useful skills and useful experience. Whether they will return is another matter although companies will certainly need to review how they are perceived and treated versus up and coming graduates etc.

 

[MattA7]

I suspect I have more than likely become unemployable but due to my disability and health issues. I have Asperger’s syndrome which results in social communication problems and I also suffer from a range of physical health issues.

When I was at school the support available was very good and I did go on to get my standard grades etc however when I left school that support all stopped. I went to college but the support was rather poor and I didn’t perform well and ultimately failed the course. I have applied for several jobs over the years that I feel I would be able to do however never got past the interview stage.

The job center did put me on a support program however the employability officers recently ended the service claiming I’m in absolutely no fit state for employment or college and they could no longer continue with the program.

My health issues such as emaciation and muscle weakness make it obvious that I do have health problems and of course my social communication problems likely make the Asperger’s fairly obviously to any interviewer. This in addition to the fact I’m 28 and have never been employed make me believe I have become totally unemployable and will probably have a lifetime of financial insecurity.

 

[GS250]

I suspect I have more than likely become unemployable but due to my disability and health issues. I have Asperger’s syndrome which results in social communication problems and I also suffer from a range of physical health issues.

When I was at school the support available was very good and I did go on to get my standard grades etc however when I left school that support all stopped. I went to college but the support was rather poor and I didn’t perform well and ultimately failed the course. I have applied for several jobs over the years that I feel I would be able to do however never got past the interview stage.

The job center did put me on a support program however the employability officers recently ended the service claiming I’m in absolutely no fit state for employment or college and they could no longer continue with the program.

My health issues such as emaciation and muscle weakness make it obvious that I do have health problems and of course my social communication problems likely make the Asperger’s fairly obviously to any interviewer. This in addition to the fact I’m 28 and have never been employed make me believe I have become totally unemployable and will probably have a lifetime of financial insecurity.

Matt, have you ever considered anything in IT programming? A number of those who excel at this skill have conditions such as aspergers. What you apparently lose social communication wise can be levelled up with superior skills elsewhere.

 

[najaB]

My health issues such as emaciation and muscle weakness make it obvious that I do have health problems and of course my social communication problems likely make the Asperger’s fairly obviously to any interviewer. This in addition to the fact I’m 28 and have never been employed make me believe I have become totally unemployable and will probably have a lifetime of financial insecurity.

I second the suggestion to look at a job in the IT sector. The key skills needed aren't physical and many/most jobs are either partially or fully remote these days.

 

[Broucek]

I suspect I have more than likely become unemployable but due to my disability and health issues. I have Asperger’s syndrome which results in social communication problems and I also suffer from a range of physical health issues.

When I was at school the support available was very good and I did go on to get my standard grades etc however when I left school that support all stopped. I went to college but the support was rather poor and I didn’t perform well and ultimately failed the course. I have applied for several jobs over the years that I feel I would be able to do however never got past the interview stage.

The job center did put me on a support program however the employability officers recently ended the service claiming I’m in absolutely no fit state for employment or college and they could no longer continue with the program.

My health issues such as emaciation and muscle weakness make it obvious that I do have health problems and of course my social communication problems likely make the Asperger’s fairly obviously to any interviewer. This in addition to the fact I’m 28 and have never been employed make me believe I have become totally unemployable and will probably have a lifetime of financial insecurity.

That sounds rough. But there are jobs that don't need strong interpersonal skills or physical strength. As GS250 says, there are many IT-related roles that's true for but there are other examples. What are you good at or interested in?

 

[Dai Corner]

Looks like the employment market is trying to about turn on its previous policy and tempt those 50 and early 60 somethings back to work. There is now a realisation that its the very demographic that was often overlooked is the one that actually knew how to do the job so to speak. Those who weren't necessarily managerial but who had useful skills and useful experience. Whether they will return is another matter although companies will certainly need to review how they are perceived and treated versus up and coming graduates etc.

I'm 62 and retired at 56 following a heart attack and subsequent poor health. I'd lost interest in my school IT job after the Head became more influenced by slick salesmen and glossy brochures than her own staff anyway. Fortunately my pension is sufficient to pay the bills and I'll be quite comfortably off once my state pension kicks in in 4 or 5 years time.

I suppose I'm one of those that the Government would like to return to work but the pace of change is such that I'd no longer be employable in my old field. I'd rather leave unskilled jobs to those who need them and don't have the inclination to train for something new, even if an employer would take me on.

 

[MattA7]

Unfortunately computing ICT was one of the subjects I didn’t perform well in. My best subjects were physics and chemistry so I always had a science/engineering career path in mind and did attempt a engineering course at the local college however it as mentioned earlier it caused a lot of problems due to the lack of support given by the college.

 

[najaB]

Unfortunately computing ICT was one of the subjects I didn’t perform well in.

Don't write yourself off for a career in IT - it's a very wide field and if you're of a scientific bent then data science might be more your cup of tea.

 

[Dai Corner]

Unfortunately computing ICT was one of the subjects I didn’t perform well in. My best subjects were physics and chemistry so I always had a science/engineering career path in mind and did attempt a engineering course at the local college however it as mentioned earlier it caused a lot of problems due to the lack of support given by the college.

IT is engineering in the sense of using available resources and your knowledge and experience to provide solutions to real-life problems/requirements. Software Engineer, for example, is a fairly widely used job title.

 

[dakta]

I'd agree with the above, don't write it off. Very broad field and there are worse industries to be in.

 

[315801]

I think I have been pretty much since I was 18. I did not do very well at school due to being bullied every day for 5 years so consequently my school work suffered badly to the point where the school let me do my final exam at home. As it was a music exam, all my tutor had to bring was a tape recorder and his microphone so that the examboard knew who was be recorded.

When I left school in June 1989 my original idea because of my interest in science was to get further education at collto become a lab technician, the problem was that the college had a rule that if students failed the 1st year of the 2 year course of their chosen subject that the students would not be allowed to do the 2nd year because the work in the 2nd year followed on from the 1st year.

At 18 after finishing the yts course I ended up going to the jokecentre ( my nickname for the jobcentre ) and signing on.

I have been for several interviews over the years but it was either due to no previous experience, giving the wrong answers to questions being asked or just not hearing anything from the employers that I eventually lost confidence in my ability to find anything.

In 2004 I finally did get something as a Forecort Cashier ( absolutely hated it ) and also as my maths grade from school was not good my other half suggested we do a course at college. Although it took me 2 attempts to do the course, I did manage in the end to boost my grade from an E to a C.

After the head boss of the garage announced in 2005 that the Lidl supermarket chain were looking to buy it, I immediately decided to look for another form of work, that ended up being bus driving as I was watching Arriva's buses going past the garage and thinking to myself I could earn a lot more driving them than working in the garage. National minimum wage at the time was a pitiful £5.35 per hour. I found a place where I could train to get my PSV now referred to by the dvla as the PCV licence and passed my bus driving test on the 2nd attempt and struck lucky when the company offered me a job driving which I did for 18 months on and off from 2006 to 2008.

In 2011 after being professionally diagnosed with high anxiety and mild depression I received a phone call from my dad who the family lost in 2017 due to copd. He had found a leaflet for the open university at his GP practice and suggested to my mum ( who my sister, brother and I lost in 2021 ) the idea of talking to me about studying with them as I have had a passion for volcanoes since I saw the eruption of Mount St Helens on the 9:00 news in 1980.

Dad spoke to me about it and suggested I ring them and enquire about whether they would give me a go on a course. I was concerned that because of my rubbish grades from school that the university would not allow me to study, however, it turned out that because I am over 25, the requirements for acceptance onto a course do not apply as I am classed as an adult student, grades of 3 Bs or above are only required for anybody between the ages of 18 & 24.

At nearly 50 year old ( june this year ) I am now in my 5th year of study out of 6 and fully enjoying it. I have made a lot of friends via the forums and also learning a lot more than I ever managed to do at school because it is home based study with opportunities to attend field schools and residential schools ( although places are limited and go like hot cakes ). Next year will be my last year of the course with graduation ceremony hopefully following later that year.

I can seriously recommend studying with the Open University for anybody wondering what to do next and they have a wide range of courses available.

If anybody is interested I will post the phone number and email address for the open university ( with permission from the moderators of course ).

My apologies for the long post but I just thought it would hopefully help to give hope to anybody in the same position as me.

 

[Broucek]

I think I have been pretty much since I was 18. I did not do very well at school due to being bullied every day for 5 years so consequently my school work suffered badly to the point where the school let me do my final exam at home. As it was a music exam, all my tutor had to bring was a tape recorder and his microphone so that the examboard knew who was be recorded.

When I left school in June 1989 my original idea because of my interest in science was to get further education at collto become a lab technician, the problem was that the college had a rule that if students failed the 1st year of the 2 year course of their chosen subject that the students would not be allowed to do the 2nd year because the work in the 2nd year followed on from the 1st year.

At 18 after finishing the yts course I ended up going to the jokecentre ( my nickname for the jobcentre ) and signing on.

I have been for several interviews over the years but it was either due to no previous experience, giving the wrong answers to questions being asked or just not hearing anything from the employers that I eventually lost confidence in my ability to find anything.

In 2004 I finally did get something as a Forecort Cashier ( absolutely hated it ) and also as my maths grade from school was not good my other half suggested we do a course at college. Although it took me 2 attempts to do the course, I did manage in the end to boost my grade from an E to a C.

After the head boss of the garage announced in 2005 that the Lidl supermarket chain were looking to buy it, I immediately decided to look for another form of work, that ended up being bus driving as I was watching Arriva's buses going past the garage and thinking to myself I could earn a lot more driving them than working in the garage. National minimum wage at the time was a pitiful £5.35 per hour. I found a place where I could train to get my PSV now referred to by the dvla as the PCV licence and passed my bus driving test on the 2nd attempt and struck lucky when the company offered me a job driving which I did for 18 months on and off from 2006 to 2008.

In 2011 after being professionally diagnosed with high anxiety and mild depression I received a phone call from my dad who the family lost in 2017 due to copd. He had found a leaflet for the open university at his GP practice and suggested to my mum ( who my sister, brother and I lost in 2021 ) the idea of talking to me about studying with them as I have had a passion for volcanoes since I saw the eruption of Mount St Helens on the 9:00 news in 1980.

Dad spoke to me about it and suggested I ring them and enquire about whether they would give me a go on a course. I was concerned that because of my rubbish grades from school that the university would not allow me to study, however, it turned out that because I am over 25, the requirements for acceptance onto a course do not apply as I am classed as an adult student, grades of 3 Bs or above are only required for anybody between the ages of 18 & 24.

At nearly 50 year old ( june this year ) I am now in my 5th year of study out of 6 and fully enjoying it. I have made a lot of friends via the forums and also learning a lot more than I ever managed to do at school because it is home based study with opportunities to attend field schools and residential schools ( although places are limited and go like hot cakes ). Next year will be my last year of the course with graduation ceremony hopefully following later that year.

I can seriously recommend studying with the Open University for anybody wondering what to do next and they have a wide range of courses available.

If anybody is interested I will post the phone number and email address for the open university ( with permission from the moderators of course ).

My apologies for the long post but I just thought it would hopefully help to give hope to anybody in the same position as me.

What a lovely and inspiring story. Thanks for sharing it!

 

[route101]

Great story above.

I am thinking of looking for a new job soon.

 

[themeone]

Although I'm retired now, I had a similarly varied working life also ending up as a bit of a jack of all trades.. The problem is a lot of employers are risk averse and see such a varied CV as a risk. I eventually became a freelance IT trainer - I had no experience as a trainer, and learned all the mistakes the hard way! I guess there are worse ways to earn money, and I got to do a fair amount of travelling.

I'm now a landlord with 3 properties. To be honest I'd have done this earlier if the opportunity had arisen - it's definitely not money for doing nothing, but on balance I prefer it to any other job I've done.

 

[GS250]

Although I'm retired now, I had a similarly varied working life also ending up as a bit of a jack of all trades.. The problem is a lot of employers are risk averse and see such a varied CV as a risk. I eventually became a freelance IT trainer - I had no experience as a trainer, and learned all the mistakes the hard way! I guess there are worse ways to earn money, and I got to do a fair amount of travelling.

Good for you. Yes...its actually something that usually works against employers. Wanting the perfect candidate as opposed to looking at the bigger picture and investing in that person. We've had something of a recruitment crisis here and its taken a few boots up a few backsides to start to resolve. Employing on personality whilst having the basic aptitude and minimum skills for the role usually yields good results in the long term.

I remember watching the BBC Fighter Pilot series that was produced in the early 80s and one comment stood out regarding selection. "you don't want to go to war with a w***** on your wing" is something that stands true to today.

 

[GS250]

No....we are no longer 'unemployable'!!!!

https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/12/over...me-tax-to-tempt-people-back-to-work-18087096/

 

[Broucek]

No....we are no longer 'unemployable'!!!!

https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/12/over...me-tax-to-tempt-people-back-to-work-18087096/

Is it April 1? There is sooooo much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start....

And is this the same government that recently announced a load of tax increases / fiscal drag provisions that are likely to increase the number of experienced, well-paid people retiring early or reducing their hours?

 

[GS250]

Is it April 1? There is sooooo much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start....

And is this the same government that recently announced a load of tax increases / fiscal drag provisions that are likely to increase the number of experienced, well-paid people retiring early or reducing their hours?

My instant thought was that all employers will do is offer the salary minus tax to start with. It will benefit the company coffers but won't really benefit the economy as a whole. The apparently retired 50 somethings will hardly be attracted to work for the same nett salary that they left behind either. I guess if the salary was set mid point between tax and no tax it may appeal.

However it may have a negative impact amongst working teams morals? Then again...when its this apparent expertise and experience that's being missed the more junior staff, graduates and management may be glad to have them back.

 

[najaB]

No....we are no longer 'unemployable'!!!!

https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/12/over...me-tax-to-tempt-people-back-to-work-18087096/

How about just cutting VAT or various duties - that benefits everyone. Cutting income tax to the over 50s tends to support those who are likely in higher-paying positions and probably have paid off a significant portion of their mortgage.

 

[Dai Corner]

How about just cutting VAT or various duties - that benefits everyone. Cutting income tax to the over 50s tends to support those who are likely in higher-paying positions and probably have paid off a significant portion of their mortgage.

Because they want to tempt those of us in our 50s and early 60s who've decided not to work any more to do so. Personally, taking home £15 an hour rather than £10 wouldn't change my mind but I can see that it could work for someone who's bored, struggling financially, saving up for a major expense or even fed up with babysitting the grandchildren. More economic activity is a good thing, even if it's not directly taxed.

 

[najaB]

Because they want to tempt those of us in our 50s and early 60s who've decided not to work any more to do so.

But how many people in that group made the decision to do so because they didn't want to pay income tax? They made that choice because they didn't need to work.

More economic activity is a good thing, even if it's not directly taxed.

I agree with that. So perhaps something like reducing tax on microenterprises.

 

[Dai Corner]

But how many people in that group made the decision to do so because they didn't want to pay income tax? They made that choice because they didn't need to work.

Circumstances and attitudes can change, hence my middle sentence above.

I agree with that. So perhaps something like reducing tax on microenterprises.

Provided that whoever works in the microenterprise was previously economically inactive. But why not do both?

 

[najaB]

Circumstances and attitudes can change, hence my middle sentence above.

Indeed circumstances change. But how many people are saying "Well, I don't have enough money to eat and I would go and work, but I don't want to pay income tax..."?

Provided that whoever works in the microenterprise was previously economically inactive. But why not do both?

Reducing tax on microenterprises helps them to grow into mid-sized enterprises.

 

[Dai Corner]

Indeed circumstances change. But how many people are saying "Well, I don't have enough money to eat and I would go and work, but I don't want to pay income tax..."?

If they're that hard up,they're probably already working or looking for jobs. But there must be some in the other categories I listed who'd work if they weren't taxed on their earnings. There's only one way to find out though.