ValleyLines142
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802102 was on test at Bristol Parkway on Monday.
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GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations
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E_Reeves
Established Member
On Monday I'm looking to get an IET from Didcot P'way towards Paddington... Is there any way I'll know if it'll be one just by looking at the running info or will I have to backtrack it to the origin, e.g North Pole?
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cactustwirly
Established Member
E_Reeves
Established Member
Alright, thanks. I won't complain anyway if it is a HST
Kite159
Veteran Member
Try looking up on Iris Tiger, as that shows formations (look for anything formed of 5, 9 or 10 coaches)
http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/renderstaffsoad.asp?file=30474F.xml
I was on 1C10 (1030 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare) on Friday - unexpectedly ended up with 802008. Departure was delayed due to a 'unit late from the depot', so i'd presume they pressed in the stock that should have formed 1D22 (diagram IW955) and used it on this, with the late arriving stock being used for 1C10 instead.
This was actually my first IEP journey, so was reasonably pleased to get an 802! At the risk of controversy, thoughts on the unit as a passenger were;
- Seats firm, but reasonably comfortable.
- Armrests quite low, not exactly conductive to typing on a laptop with support.
- Reasonable amount of legroom at the tables - wasn't playing footsie with the person opposite.
- Great acceleration, as reflected in some of the timings!
- Quiet - good sound insulation. I didn't notice a difference in noise switching from Electric to Diesel but I was in a non-motor car. That said, getting off at Bath I could 'hear' it accelerate away but the noise paled in comparison with that emitted by one of the Turbos going in the other direction!
- 5 carriages insufficient in the off peak - just about everyone who wanted a seat got one at Paddington, but people were standing Swindon from onwards. However, I think i'd rather have a 5 carriage service with standing than an outright cancellation.
- So many announcements. Having seen this thread I didn't think things were that bad in general - but it seems i've been enjoying relative quiet on my typical Southeastern travels compared to the barrage of announcements on the GW IEPs!
802005 was also on the Cotswold Line on Friday - diagram IW959.
Picture by Martin Loader taken at Chilson, near Charlbury
http://hondawanderer.com/802005_Chilson_2018.htm
Picture by Martin Loader taken at Chilson, near Charlbury
http://hondawanderer.com/802005_Chilson_2018.htm
E_Reeves
Established Member
Plenty of 802s out today and surprisingly quite a few HSTs running about still, which is nice to see!
E_Reeves
Established Member
802103 at Reading, presumably on test, looking brand new in unbranded GWR green
Thunderer
Member
802017+802011 working the 1B35 12:45 Paddington - Swansea today. 802019 plus another 802 that I didn't catach were working the 11:45 Paddington - Swansea earlier today as well.
7001SirJames
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Can anyone post the SATS and SUN diagram content for the 802 units please? LTP or else overwritten by STP.
Also I cannot trace any content for IW951 or IW966 SX - do they still exist?
Thanks in anticipation
ValleyLines142
Established Member
What's the latest on the 800/3s? I noticed 800320 on the 1710 Weston to Paddington today.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
adrock1976
Established Member
Who exactly made the software incompatible?
Being as it is the same family of trains, you would think that the software would be compatible across the whole family. For example, the various classes of Sprinters and Pacers can all couple to each other without any major problems.
I totally despair at how the country has ended up in the terrible state it is in nowadays.
The week just gone IW951 was reserved for Driver training at North Pole, IW966 had a number of Cotswolds workings on it (starting with 1W12).
7001SirJames
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Thank you for helpful reply. With all the service disruption now until new timetables after 31st Dec, I shall await likely recast of the diagrams.
Agdron
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Does anyone have all the current IET diagrams for Paddington to Penzance Via Castle Cary?
SamYeager
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Perhaps you could provide some evidence to backup this assertion? Not saying you are wrong but I wasn't aware that HSTs bombed along at 125mph on this route.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Should be quicker than a HST!
Less dwell time with automatic doors, and quicker acceleration between stops
Mintona
Established Member
I presume the poster is referring to the North Cotswold line, but that doesn’t tally with what has been posted here previously.
Certainly in my experience of short platforms on the Kemble line, the timetable is much easier to keep to, and it’s usual to sit at a platform for a minute waiting for departure time.
Dren Ahmeti
Member
I’ve seen IET’s leave Reading 10 down, and make up all that time by the time they get to Worcester...
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
They change week by week at the moment during the transitional period until they settle down. There is plenty of information within this thread
Lengthened compared with what and when?
Do you mean this week, when running times are being extended due to the engineering work in West London, with trains starting from Paddington 15 minutes earlier than usual?
Or if you mean compared with the running time of HSTs on the Cathedrals Express in the 1990s, then yes, they have.
Back then that service did not call at Pershore, Honeybourne, Hanborough and Reading. Nowadays every Cotswold Line service calls at Reading, pretty much everything stops at Hanborough, and most call at Pershore and Honeybourne as well. As a result, timings have been extended and got a bit of extra padding as well. That's a situation based on commercial demands for more calls at busier stations, infrastructure limitations (remaining single-line sections of track) and timetable planning decisions, not anything to do with the performance of IETs, which will hopefully be fully exploited when the new timetable finally happens.
If you mean compared with HSTs making all the standard calls along the line in recent years, you have got to be joking.
Station dwell times on HSTs could be truly dreadful, especially on dark winter nights, due to train managers walking the length of platforms at stations to check doors were closed correctly. I have seen/ridden on five-car IETs that were back on the move in just over a minute, even at the busiest stations on the line, and nine-car sets calling in recent days at newly-extended platforms and getting away again well inside the booked two minutes.
I dread to think how long HST stops would have taken on unstaffed platforms where most if not all of the doors on an eight-car set could be opened.
There have been plenty of realtimetrains reports over the past 12 months showing Cotswold Line IETs easily beating station to station timings on the current timetable - in part because of time allowed for faffing around with HST slam doors or Turbos being used as stand-in stock, but also the better initial acceleration of IETs, which comes in handy on a route with lots of station stops.
Back on August 22 the IET on the 05.28 from Hereford left 11 minutes late at 05.39 (waiting for delayed catering staff, not anything to do with the train) and reached Paddington one minute late at 08.29 after making all its booked stops, for a net running time of 2hrs 50minutes - matching the best HST timing of yesteryear for that limited-stop Cathedrals Express. The IET had recovered all of the lost time by Moreton-in-Marsh, while covering the most taxing parts of the route over the Malvern Hills and up Chipping Campden bank.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40441/2018/08/21/advanced
Or we could try the 05.47 from Paddington to Worcester on September 11. Departed London 15 late, was on time at Worcester in a net 2hrs 7 minutes, including its regular calls at Slough and Didcot Parkway. An HST could not have done anything of the sort and even a 180 would have had to be pushed hard to manage Moreton-in-Marsh to Evesham in 16 minutes inclusive of a stop at Honeybourne.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C42006/2018/09/11/advanced
CC 72100
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Just look at the South Cotswolds at Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse - 7 / 7 / 5 coaches. IETs make mincemeat of the station dwell time that is saved by not having to open from a specific place, check TGS van doors and then go back to another place to dispatch. And I say that as an ardent HST fan...
Consider the 1850 from WOS to PAD. This used to arrive into PAD just before 9pm during the Adelante days. Post Adelante the arrival time was around 21:30. On an IET from Jan 2019, it's 21:05. Therefore, slower than an Adelante.
Or examine Sunday diagrams from WOF to PAD. Journey time of around 2:45... on one of those wooden bench seats the DfT kindly specified and at longer than the listed journey time for an HST on a Sunday, it's hardly an improvement.
The IET's acceleration + shorter dwell times at stations should mean that end to end times decrease. The fact an IET is able to arrive on time at Worcester having left PAD 15 late indicates that the timetable could be more realistic and therefore provide faster journey times. I understand electrification has been delayed but why doesn't the new timetable reflect the alleged true capability of the IETs?
Or examine Sunday diagrams from WOF to PAD. Journey time of around 2:45... on one of those wooden bench seats the DfT kindly specified and at longer than the listed journey time for an HST on a Sunday, it's hardly an improvement.
The IET's acceleration + shorter dwell times at stations should mean that end to end times decrease. The fact an IET is able to arrive on time at Worcester having left PAD 15 late indicates that the timetable could be more realistic and therefore provide faster journey times. I understand electrification has been delayed but why doesn't the new timetable reflect the alleged true capability of the IETs?
You do understand that the current timetable - which will essentially continue until the end of next year, whether or not GWR and its passengers like it - was designed to reflect the performance capabilities of the HSTs and Turbos that were still operating most services on the Cotswold Line at the start of this year, do you? As opposed to what IETs can do when the timetable specifically reflects their performance.
New GWR timetables, reflecting the capabilities of the IETs in either traction power mode, were supposed to be starting next week - but they aren't - like changes that were supposed to take place elsewhere in the country last May, this month and next May, because of the deep hole Network Rail has dug for itself when it comes to handling timetable planning work, resulting in GWR's major timetable overhaul being deferred.
I don't know why you think the 18.50 from Worcester got to London any quicker when it was a 180 - the 2007-8 Cotswold Line timetable shows it reaching Paddington at, er, 21.27.
The London arrival time of that service has always been determined by what time it leaves Worcester and whether it is pushed through to Oxford as fast as possible and then has a short stop there and forms the fast service to London just after 20.00 - which is the case at the moment - or had an easier timing to Oxford (which meant an extended stop at Moreton-in-Marsh until quite recently) and then sat in the platform at Oxford for 10 minutes or more, before forming the 20.31 departure. Not forgetting the need to time its passage through the single-line sections carefully at a time when the peak trains out of London are heading the other way.
At weekends and evenings, GWR timetables for services into and out of Paddington have contained generous allowances in recent years to reflect the possibility of only two tracks being available on parts of the line between Didcot, Reading and London due to engineering work for GWML improvements and Crossrail, with fasts, stoppers and freights all sharing those two tracks.
I used to travel on this regularly in 2016 and 2017. It used to arrive in Paddington just before 9pm, therefore quicker than the scheduled IET from Jan 2019.
Granted Network Rail have experienced issues, but why should that prevent GWR adjusting their timetable to reflect the performance of the IETs? Electrification is a separate issue, the IETs are said to out-perform the HSTs on diesel anyway.
GWR's own publicity material on board the IETs states:
Faster journeys
Our Intercity Express Trains accelerate faster than our current fleet, which means shorter travel times. And, with better braking, you’ll notice a smoother and quieter ride too.
Our Intercity Express Trains accelerate faster than our current fleet, which means shorter travel times. And, with better braking, you’ll notice a smoother and quieter ride too.
Nowhere does it state that these benefits won't be available until the end of 2019. If what you say is true, GWR should remove this misleading propaganda.
Clarence Yard
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Why no piecemeal acceleration? Because NR seemingly can’t cope with the consequential alterations to other services/operators except by doing it all at once.
Because of all those interactions, the DfT are bricking it that they will have another Thameslink/Northern fiasco on it’s hands and have effectively canned the GWR IET timetable until NR has the resources in place to do the job properly.
So when the last cl.802 has been delivered they will still be in HST/Turbo timings until that new timetable is enacted. NR HQ has said it wants a decision off the DfT in January for the December 2019 timetable otherwise it will get put back to May 2020, at least.
The row between Hitachi, NR and the DfT over interference is also complicating matters, although there has been little wrong with the trains on GWR, so far.
Because of all those interactions, the DfT are bricking it that they will have another Thameslink/Northern fiasco on it’s hands and have effectively canned the GWR IET timetable until NR has the resources in place to do the job properly.
So when the last cl.802 has been delivered they will still be in HST/Turbo timings until that new timetable is enacted. NR HQ has said it wants a decision off the DfT in January for the December 2019 timetable otherwise it will get put back to May 2020, at least.
The row between Hitachi, NR and the DfT over interference is also complicating matters, although there has been little wrong with the trains on GWR, so far.
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