GWR daily cancellations

[mikeb42]

Due to a shortage of train crew, fewer services are able to operate between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads tomorrow, Sun 20/10/2024..
***
As a result, long distance services between London Paddington and Swansea will be taking an alternative route between Swindon and Bristol Parkway, calling additionally at Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads. This will extend journey times between London and South Wales by approximately 40 minutes. Passengers who need to travel to/from Chippenham, Bath Spa or Bristol Temple Meads should board these services, or make use of other local services in the Bristol area, which will continue to operate. Please note that we expect these services to be extremely busy, so if you are able to delay your journey to travel on another day, you may have a more comfortable journey. To enable this, you can use your ticket on GWR services on Monday 21st October at no additional cost.

Risible.

Regular users of this route had to endure this sort of execrable "service" on a weekly basis for years.

Latterly, recruitment of large numbers of train crew for extra services (which never really happened thanks to Covid) seemed to have the side-effect of making this lavishly subsidised public service provide an actual public service tolerably on Sundays, at least on the London route.

Now there seems to have been a rapid slide back to this sort of contemptible failure almost routinely. Expensively settling the pay disputes seems to have coincided with things getting much worse. How lovely.

Particularly brilliant when Highways England have permitted the M4 to be shut both ways for an entire half-term weekend at a crucial point in the Bristol area so someone can dig a trench. The congestion eastbound on a Sunday afternoon, already just about the worst time of the week, will likely be monumental.

So often the railway can be relied upon to let everyone down when it's most needed. Making like it's still 1976 on Sundays...

Anyone got a helicopter going spare?

 

[Towers]

Risible.

Regular users of this route had to endure this sort of execrable "service" on a weekly basis for years.

Latterly, recruitment of large numbers of train crew for extra services (which never really happened thanks to Covid) seemed to have the side-effect of making this lavishly subsidised public service provide an actual public service tolerably on Sundays, at least on the London route.

Now there seems to have been a rapid slide back to this sort of contemptible failure almost routinely. Expensively settling the pay disputes seems to have coincided with things getting much worse. How lovely.

Particularly brilliant when Highways England have permitted the M4 to be shut both ways for an entire half-term weekend at a crucial point in the Bristol area so someone can dig a trench. The congestion eastbound on a Sunday afternoon, already just about the worst time of the week, will likely be monumental.

So often the railway can be relied upon to let everyone down when it's most needed. Making like it's still 1976 on Sundays...

Anyone got a helicopter going spare?

Ultimately though, now more than ever, it’s for the DfT & Co to come up with a workable solution to this, there really is nothing that TOCs can do at this stage in the game other than offer the wages to those who want them.

 

[43066]

Expensively settling the pay disputes seems to have coincided with things getting much worse. How lovely.

Firstly, you’re right to say it’s pretty poor, and that you should expect better - absolutely.

I’m slightly intrigued by this one - is it because of a shortage at a particular depot meaning only the route suggested can be crewed? @Horizon22 might have some idea.

Settling the pay disputes didn’t, in and of itself, help with crew shortages. It just means the existing workforce aren’t working to rule or on strike. So it’s fair to say the service is no worse than, and probably better, than if they hadn’t been settled.

Anyone got a helicopter going spare?

I gather as a paid up socialist (at least he is according to my GB news watching father) the current PM no longer uses his predecessor’s helicopters, so whoever supplied them might be worth a call?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Firstly, you’re right to say it’s pretty poor, and that you should expect better - absolutely.

I’m slightly intrigued by this one - is it because of a shortage at a particular depot meaning only the route suggested can be crewed? @Horizon22 might have some idea.

Settling the pay disputes didn’t, in and of itself, help with crew shortages. It just means the existing workforce aren’t working to rule or on strike. So it’s fair to say the service is no worse than, and probably better, than if they hadn’t been settled.



I gather as a paid up socialist (at least he is according to my GB news watching father) the current PM no longer uses his predecessor’s helicopters, so whoever supplied them might be worth a call?

Back pay hit yesterday and plenty of drivers are trying to stay under £100k earnings for the year, to avoid the tax implications. I would expect Sundays to be like this until April.

 

[mikeb42]

Back pay hit yesterday and plenty of drivers are trying to stay under £100k earnings for the year, to avoid the tax implications. I would expect Sundays to be like this until April.

How resplendent.

The chancellor is about to sequester the cost of that from... everyone else... and the reward for stumping up is... the service thus provided gets hobbled in a new way for an extended period. It's like being poked in the eye and kicked in the nuts simultaneously.

That explanation is sufficiently Kafka-esque to be absolutely true in Britain, 2024.

 

[NSEWonderer]

How resplendent.

The chancellor is about to sequester the cost of that from... everyone else... and the reward for stumping up is... the service thus provided gets hobbled in a new way for an extended period. It's like being poked in the eye and kicked in the nuts simultaneously.

That explanation is sufficiently Kafka-esque to be absolutely true in Britain, 2024.

I think the main underlying issue is the over reliance on overtime(and not just because of the pay rise), to keep the railway running. When that overtime isn't picked up as much by the operational side staff like Drivers then it can indeed lead to cancelations but that is because there is a lack of redundancy and that is usually due to cutthroat cost cutting / savings.

 

[jayah]

So better to slim the service back to something thats at least deliverable its unpalatable but the industry needs to push back on the DfT not just sit on the sidelines see the industry image being tarnished.

As shown on Northern in the NW, pretty much nothing can be deemed deliverable unless the base pay is cut so far Sunday overtime becomes desirable, or there is a mandatory restructuring.

The £100k tax situation suggests even lavishing cash is no longer going to work.

 

[whoosh]

How resplendent.

The chancellor is about to sequester the cost of that from... everyone else... and the reward for stumping up is... the service thus provided gets hobbled in a new way for an extended period. It's like being poked in the eye and kicked in the nuts simultaneously.

That explanation is sufficiently Kafka-esque to be absolutely true in Britain, 2024.

Railway staff have been working a lot of overtime as there hasn't been the level of recruitment necessary over the past few years.

Also, they have felt it necessary to work overtime as they agreed to have no pay rise in 2020 and 2021 (obviously because they are greedy), and then had their next pay deal deliberately dragged out for years, (and strikes deliberately provoked, to provide the conservative party with a 'win' by introducing Minimum Service Levels legislation), and so needed to work overtime through that as well.

Now, with a markedly below inflation pay deal (which is what it is, despite newspapers implying it isn't), all the back pay is arriving in ONE tax year, instead of being spread out over three (or four in some cases).

So yeah, between now and April is going to see less overtime worked, as no-one really likes an effective tax rate of 60%.

Also, weekends during school holidays do not see anywhere near as many overtime volunteers as normal. And furthermore - something to look forward to - weekdays in school holidays, especially Christmas school holidays, also have this issue.

Merry Christmas 2024!

 

[John R]

I'm not sure why drivers are worked up about earning over £100k. Unless you qualify for tax-free childcare, where the £100k is a problem, as you lose it at that point (but even then you can allow for pensions), all that happens over £100k is you have a higher marginal tax rate as the Personal Allowance is eroded. I agree it's a bit painful, and means that the net amount you earn for every day is reduced, it doesn't cost you anything.

(By the way, I've been in this position in the past, so I know how it feels.)

 

[Goldfish62]

Back pay hit yesterday and plenty of drivers are trying to stay under £100k earnings for the year, to avoid the tax implications. I would expect Sundays to be like this until April.

The tax threshold is £125k, not £100k and surely even with back pay they're not going to get to remotely near that amount (or £100k for that matter). Anyway, it's only another 5p in the £ above £125k.

I'd have thought a more credible explanation is that with the back pay many are simply taking a break and will resume overtime and rest days in January when it's time to pay Christmas bills.

 

[Horizon22]

Firstly, you’re right to say it’s pretty poor, and that you should expect better - absolutely.

I’m slightly intrigued by this one - is it because of a shortage at a particular depot meaning only the route suggested can be crewed? @Horizon22 might have some idea.

Bristol TM is apparently incredibly short (well under half diagrams covered) but all depots are affected.

I did forsee this might happen at all TOCs with Sundays completely outside after the back pay!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==

I think the main underlying issue is the over reliance on overtime(and not just because of the pay rise), to keep the railway running. When that overtime isn't picked up as much by the operational side staff like Drivers then it can indeed lead to cancelations but that is because there is a lack of redundancy and that is usually due to cutthroat cost cutting / savings.

It’s simply because Sunday isn’t in the working week - if the day wasn’t run on overtime at some (not all; you can tell which ones have it inside by how few cancellations they have!) TOCs, it wouldn’t be an issue.

But I must have mentioned this 20 times this year alone - and probably already in this thread - and the farce will continue until someone bites the bullet and pays up.

 

[John R]

The tax threshold is £125k, not £100k and surely even with back pay they're not going to get to remotely near that amount (or £100k for that matter). Anyway, it's only another 5p in the £ above £125k.

Except you lose the Personal Allowance over 100k, so it's around a 60% marginal rate until you hit the 45% rate, at which point you've lost the whole of your PA.

 

[dk1]

Back pay hit yesterday and plenty of drivers are trying to stay under £100k earnings for the year, to avoid the tax implications. I would expect Sundays to be like this until April.

On the contrary for me though. Yes I got the most fabulous payslip this week but then only yesterday volunteered to do an additional Sunday tomorrow as well. Unfortunately I don’t work for GWR so can’t assist with trains to Temple meads.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

The tax threshold is £125k, not £100k and surely even with back pay they're not going to get to remotely near that amount (or £100k for that matter). Anyway, it's only another 5p in the £ above £125k.

I'd have thought a more credible explanation is that with the back pay many are simply taking a break and will resume overtime and rest days in January when it's time to pay Christmas bills.

I think more drivers will top £100k than don’t, for this year only.

Both things are true.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==

Bristol TM is apparently incredibly short (well under half diagrams covered) but all depots are affected.

Two is the number that I have heard?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==

On the contrary for me though. Yes I got the most fabulous payslip this week but then only yesterday volunteered to do an additional Sunday tomorrow as well. Unfortunately I don’t work for GWR so can’t assist with trains to Temple meads.

It’s not too hard, just drive fast and slam the brakes on when you see a station.

I too am working tomorrow but there are plenty that aren’t.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It’s not too hard, just drive fast and slam the brakes on when you see a station.

I realise it was in jest, but this is about as far from the standard GWR driving style as it is possible to get

 

[Horizon22]

Two is the number that I have heard?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==

Sounds about right.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

How resplendent.

The chancellor is about to sequester the cost of that from... everyone else... and the reward for stumping up is... the service thus provided gets hobbled in a new way for an extended period. It's like being poked in the eye and kicked in the nuts simultaneously.

That explanation is sufficiently Kafka-esque to be absolutely true in Britain, 2024.

Hang on the Passenger in Chief has told us she fixing things fast.

 

[jayah]

Hang on the Passenger in Chief has told us she fixing things fast.

The marginal tax rate is 60% from £100k to just over £125k and with employee NICs it is 62% and even higher in Scotland with their additional income tax.

Understandable nobody wants to touch that unless you are going to power through it towards £200k.

The best mitigation is usually making pension contributions, but claiming the higher rate relief is a PITA and its removal is on a perennial budget watch list.

The lifetime pension cap is also why so many doctors with a lot of years / contributions in, now work part time to stay under the £100k.

No sign of anyone doing anything about all this, it's been broken for at least 10 years, and freezing the tax allowances will only make it worse.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I realise it was in jest, but this is about as far from the standard GWR driving style as it is possible to get

That depends who is driving!

 

[father_jack]

Railway staff have been working a lot of overtime as there hasn't been the level of recruitment necessary over the past few years.

Also, they have felt it necessary to work overtime as they agreed to have no pay rise in 2020 and 2021 (obviously because they are greedy), and then had their next pay deal deliberately dragged out for years, (and strikes deliberately provoked, to provide the conservative party with a 'win' by introducing Minimum Service Levels legislation), and so needed to work overtime through that as well.

Now, with a markedly below inflation pay deal (which is what it is, despite newspapers implying it isn't), all the back pay is arriving in ONE tax year, instead of being spread out over three (or four in some cases).

So yeah, between now and April is going to see less overtime worked, as no-one really likes an effective tax rate of 60%.

Also, weekends during school holidays do not see anywhere near as many overtime volunteers as normal. And furthermore - something to look forward to - weekdays in school holidays, especially Christmas school holidays, also have this issue.

Merry Christmas 2024!

This should be a pinned post to the top of EVERY industrial action related post on this forum.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

About time some MPs call on Louise Haigh as Passenger in Chief to explain how she is going fix this weekly issue.



https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates

 

[Horizon22]

About time some MPs call on Louise Haigh as Passenger in Chief to explain how she is going fix this weekly issue.

View attachment 167601

https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates

More money for the DfT to pay the extra ~15% for drivers to get Sunday into the working week and increase establishment? Yeah that seems unlikely in the upcoming budget.

 

[74A]

Part of the issue at GWR is the new rest day working agreement recently signed. Who would have guessed paying drivers more on a week day would mean fewer drivers working their booked Sunday

 

[dk1]

Part of the issue at GWR is the new rest day working agreement recently signed. Who would have guessed paying drivers more on a week day would mean fewer drivers working their booked Sunday

I know!! Anyone of us in the know would have thought that that is exactly how it’s going to pan out.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

More money for the DfT to pay the extra ~15% for drivers to get Sunday into the working week and increase establishment? Yeah that seems unlikely in the upcoming budget.

Unlikely of course but she can't standby and claim shes fixing Britain's railways whilst this chaos ensues at several operators now

 

[Horizon22]

Of the booked hourly trains between Bristol - Paddington, GWR are running 3 (potentially 4) all day.

 

[whoosh]

Unlikely of course but she can't standby and claim shes fixing Britain's railways whilst this chaos ensues at several operators now

It's going to be difficult. Who wants to work overtime when you already work two out of three Saturdays and one out of three Sundays, and it's the school holidays and you have a chance to spend time with your kids?

Remember every other week are late shifts, so you won't see your kids then, as you leave for work before they get home, and get back often after midnight.

Would you work days off at your (limited) weekends off? Or in school holidays?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

It isn’t the school holidays to the best of my knowledge. That begins next week.

 

[Cletus]

Overrunning engineering work between Newton Abbot and Plymouth this morning.

My Devon Day Ranger won’t be getting much use today

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's going to be difficult. Who wants to work overtime when you already work two out of three Saturdays and one out of three Sundays, and it's the school holidays and you have a chance to spend time with your kids?

Remember every other week are late shifts, so you won't see your kids then, as you leave for work before they get home, and get back often after midnight.

Would you work days off at your (limited) weekends off? Or in school holidays?

Im not underestimating the challenges but the first step is for Haigh to acknowledge there is problem at some operators and that as Passenger in Chief to say something along the lines of "im determined that we move to a 7 day railway but that will take several years to achieve and in the short term we will have to reduce services to a level that is deliverable weekend in weekend out"