GWR daily cancellations

[fgwrich]

GWR have cancelled all their booked services west of Swansea today. Imagine if you had to rely on this service....

It wasn't particularly great travelling from Portsmouth Harbour today either. A number of cancellations on that route today coupled with the diversion via Eastleigh / Chan Ford vice Southampton.

 

[I'm here now]

Some trains cancelled in Cornwall area around St Erth, Hayle, and PZ. 07:40 train from Penzance mysteriously not cancelled or delayed??

 

[dk1]

Some trains cancelled in Cornwall area around St Erth, Hayle, and PZ. 07:40 train from Penzance mysteriously not cancelled or delayed??

Points failure is causing disruption.

 

[I'm here now]

Points failure is causing disruption.

I know, but that train was ‘on time’ from Hayle. Not very clear communication about the actual services running, of which there are some (albeit without anything resembling a schedule).

 

[dk1]

I know, but that train was ‘on time’ from Hayle. Not very clear communication about the actual services running, of which there are some (albeit without anything resembling a schedule).

I think I’d just jump on the first available heading towards Plymouth.

 

[I'm here now]

I think I’d just jump on the first available heading towards Plymouth.

Usually they stop the nonstoppers in Hayle, seems a bit daft today not doing so.

 

[Harpo]

I have maxed my BRASS out for the last 20 odd years. Is there any other way of avoiding this?

Is there an upper limit on what you can put in to BRASS now, or is it just an upper limit on matched contributions?

It's a while ago for me, but I was putting in more than the maximum matching and still got tax relief at the highest rate.

 

[dk1]

Is there an upper limit on what you can put in to BRASS now, or is it just an upper limit on matched contributions?

It's a while ago for me, but I was putting in more than the maximum matching and still got tax relief at the highest rate.

All I know is that i have been capped a couple of times by payroll when asking to increase my contributions.

 

[Bill EWS]

It’s pretty awful really. But drivers aren’t obliged Sundays so they don’t, especially on August bank holiday weekend.

Sundays became part of the working week after privatisation. However, I am not sure if that included passenger train drivers also! Our depot became freight only with privatisation therefore didn't work passenger trains again after that.

 

[800301]

Sundays became part of the working week after privatisation. However, I am not sure if that included passenger train drivers also! Our depot became freight only with privatisation therefore didn't work passenger trains again after that.

Sundays not part of the working week goes back to privatisation along with Sunday coverage being quite poor at numerous operators, some now have them inside the working weeks and others have a commitment to work a few Sundays, but realistically if there is not much of an incentive to work them, it’s pretty easy to see why people don’t, if the DfT was that bothered they’d increase the payment

 

[irish_rail]

It's time the bull was taken by the horns and Sundays put INTO the working week. Yes, it will cost money, but that money will be in part recovered by the economic benefits (particularly the leisure industry) with people being able to rely on sunday trains.

 

[Stigy]

Sundays are diabolical on GWR. Does anyone know why they are so short of staff on recent Sundays? I always thought high-summer was traditionally worse due to the school holidays and annual leave being taken.

Conductors on GWR don’t have a Sunday obligation and can literally just chuck them in at the last minute.

 

[Goldfish62]

Both the 1604 and 1704 Paddington to Penzance cancelled yesterday due to staff shortages. The 1804 must have been fun.

 

[Towers]

It's time the bull was taken by the horns and Sundays put INTO the working week. Yes, it will cost money, but that money will be in part recovered by the economic benefits (particularly the leisure industry) with people being able to rely on sunday trains.

Agreed; there is no other permanent, long term solution other than to get the appropriate contractural requirements put into place. This may entail existing colleagues being ‘ringfenced’ with some other arrangement for the time being, but steps desperately need to be put in place for the future.

 

[Horizon22]

Conductors on GWR don’t have a Sunday obligation and can literally just chuck them in at the last minute.

Same with most drivers too though?

I mean literally every week this thread livens up on a Sunday (same with Northern) and I'm honestly not sure what people are expecting.

The issue is obvious and well documented (as is the solution to some extent) but it will cost £££ to resolve and currently nobody wants to bite the bullet and commit. So we are where we are.

 

[infobleep]

More cancellations today but this time due to flooding in the Ash area. They managed to get all the trains back to Reading and then run shuttle services between there and Ash but by getting all the trains back to Reading, nothing could run east from Guildford. I say Guildford as I doubt they would start at Wanborough anyway.

The only advice for customers from Guildford and east of there is to use the Compass 32 bus route. There are of course train services from Guildford and Dorking that stop at Clapham Junctionand would enable people to then travel towards Gatwick Airport but that isn't mentioned, unlike the service from Reading to Clapham Junction, which is.

 

[JN114]

More cancellations today but this time due to flooding in the Ash area. They managed to get all the trains back to Reading and then run shuttle services between there and Ash but by getting all the trains back to Reading, nothing could run east from Guildford. I say Guildford as I doubt they would start at Wanborough anyway.

Crew diagramming, and the (lack of) resources to re-write them on the fly; are the primary limiting factor in attempting to run an east-end shuttle - particularly in a scenario like this where it’s “just” a case of waiting for water levels to recede enough to run a full train service.

At the time of the closure, all trains on the route were crewed with crews on their last trip before finishing. Turning any of them back at Guildford is ultimately going to take them significantly over their work day; when they’ve all been on since 4, 5am already. Unsurprisingly none were keen to stay on to the degrees being asked of them.

Were there more certainty around the timescales for the line to reopen, then crews could probably have been sent by road to run the east end of the route. But there just aren’t enough spare bodies (particularly guards) sat around to keep all trains ready to go at Reading; AND put together 3 or 4 scratch crews to work Guildford-Redhill shuttles. Whereas west end shuttles can be easily crewed by crews whose trains haven’t run, provided they’re back in Reading on time ish. So for example the first shuttle (1O68/1V47) was run by 1V47’s booked crew.

The only advice for customers from Guildford and east of there is to use the Compass 32 bus route. There are of course train services from Guildford and Dorking that stop at Clapham Junctionand would enable people to then travel towards Gatwick Airport but that isn't mentioned, unlike the service from Reading to Clapham Junction, which is.

At one stage ticket acceptance had been sorted for SWR (all reasonable routes incl Dorking as you mentioned) and Southern / Thameslink / GatEx - I’m not sure why that didn’t make it into the external messaging though.

 

[Towers]

Were there more certainty around the timescales for the line to reopen, then crews could probably have been sent by road to run the east end of the route. But there just aren’t enough spare bodies (particularly guards) sat around to keep all trains ready to go at Reading; AND put together 3 or 4 scratch crews to work Guildford-Redhill shuttles. Whereas west end shuttles can be easily crewed by crews whose trains haven’t run, provided they’re back in Reading on time ish. So for example the first shuttle (1O68/1V47) was run by 1V47’s booked crew.

One of the constraints here no doubt being that whilst guards would be starting and ending shifts at Redhill, all of the drivers for this route are resourced from the Reading end of the line, Redhill being a guard-only depot for GWR.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Same with most drivers too though?

I mean literally every week this thread livens up on a Sunday (same with Northern) and I'm honestly not sure what people are expecting.

The issue is obvious and well documented (as is the solution to some extent) but it will cost £££ to resolve and currently nobody wants to bite the bullet and commit. So we are where we are.

If DfT aren't going to fund it and i suspect on many routes extra costs wouldn't be recovered so better to cut the timetable back to what is viable as that at least avoids the negative press from mass cancellations and all the taxi costs.

 

[43066]

Sundays became part of the working week after privatisation. However, I am not sure if that included passenger train drivers also! Our depot became freight only with privatisation therefore didn't work passenger trains again after that.

They certainly didn’t everywhere. Do you mean just at EWS?

If DfT aren't going to fund it and i suspect on many routes extra costs wouldn't be recovered so better to cut the timetable back to what is viable as that at least avoids the negative press from mass cancellations and all the taxi costs.

It shouldn’t be about whether the costs are recovered directly, it should be about whether the wider economic benefits justify the (fairly marginal) extra expenditure. If they don’t wish to increase headcount they could simply incentivise the existing traincrew better.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It shouldn’t be about whether the costs are recovered directly, it should be about whether the wider economic benefits justify the (fairly marginal) extra expenditure. If they don’t wish to increase headcount they could simply incentivise the existing traincrew better.

Im agreeing but if DfT don't sanction the costs the operator is in a no win situation every Sunday not really knowing what might happen and too many passengers are being impacted by uncertainty over what might run and when. So better to slim the service back to something thats at least deliverable its unpalatable but the industry needs to push back on the DfT not just sit on the sidelines see the industry image being tarnished.

 

[Jim]

Conductors on GWR don’t have a Sunday obligation and can literally just chuck them in at the last minute.

I thought that was Train Managers? Or is it both?

 

[43066]

Im agreeing but if DfT don't sanction the costs the operator is in a no win situation every Sunday not really knowing what might happen and too many passengers are being impacted by uncertainty over what might run and when. So better to slim the service back to something thats at least deliverable its unpalatable but the industry needs to push back on the DfT not just sit on the sidelines see the industry image being tarnished.

We are largely in agreement here. The DfT presumably take the view (rightly or wrongly) that passengers will always return.

There is no reason why Sunday services couldn’t be made more robust for a relatively minimal increase in costs, even if a change to formal working arrangements is seen as too expensive. We might have hoped for a more sensible approach to this now, given the new government.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

We are largely in agreement here. The DfT presumably take the view (rightly or wrongly) that passengers will always return.

There is no reason why Sunday services couldn’t be made more robust for a relatively minimal increase in costs, even if a change to formal working arrangements is seen as too expensive. We might have hoped for a more sensible approach to this now, given the new government.

I suspect DfT opex budget is bust after the various pay awards albeit stability in the industry ought to show through in improved fare income to offset that but will take time so they have no room to increase op costs anymore is my guess.

 

[infobleep]

Crew diagramming, and the (lack of) resources to re-write them on the fly; are the primary limiting factor in attempting to run an east-end shuttle - particularly in a scenario like this where it’s “just” a case of waiting for water levels to recede enough to run a full train service.

At the time of the closure, all trains on the route were crewed with crews on their last trip before finishing. Turning any of them back at Guildford is ultimately going to take them significantly over their work day; when they’ve all been on since 4, 5am already. Unsurprisingly none were keen to stay on to the degrees being asked of them.

Were there more certainty around the timescales for the line to reopen, then crews could probably have been sent by road to run the east end of the route. But there just aren’t enough spare bodies (particularly guards) sat around to keep all trains ready to go at Reading; AND put together 3 or 4 scratch crews to work Guildford-Redhill shuttles. Whereas west end shuttles can be easily crewed by crews whose trains haven’t run, provided they’re back in Reading on time ish. So for example the first shuttle (1O68/1V47) was run by 1V47’s booked crew.



At one stage ticket acceptance had been sorted for SWR (all reasonable routes incl Dorking as you mentioned) and Southern / Thameslink / GatEx - I’m not sure why that didn’t make it into the external messaging though.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I did wonder if staff were nearing the end of their shift.

I know a lot was going on but messagung around alternative trains from Guildford and Dorking does need to get out there. Not everyone travels from Reading. I do appreciate it was in place, just not mentioned on National Rail Enquiries.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Oct 2024 ==

One of the constraints here no doubt being that whilst guards would be starting and ending shifts at Redhill, all of the drivers for this route are resourced from the Reading end of the line, Redhill being a guard-only depot for GWR.

I'm sure that is the case. I wonder when the east end last got shuttle services on the fly like this. It may not actually be possible, I accept that.

 

[NSEWonderer]

One under around the Hanwell area so a few cancellations have occurred since the incident took place at around 22:27pm.

9R86, just outside Hanwell towards the southall direction was the service involved. Only stranded train seems to be GWRs 1A37 which for some reason was let to pass Southall and into the signalled stop area.

 

[Harpo]

I suspect DfT opex budget is bust after the various pay awards albeit stability in the industry ought to show through in improved fare income to offset that but will take time so they have no room to increase op costs anymore is my guess.

Given the economic benefits cited in resolving the general industrial disputes, addressing Sunday resourcing issues ought to be near the top of someone’s to-do list soon?

 

[JN114]

Only stranded train seems to be GWRs 1A37 which for some reason was let to pass Southall and into the signalled stop area.

Southall can be deceptive in this regard.

Remember train describer maps such as open train times or traksy show the next signal the train will approach, not the location of the train.

In the case of Southall there is a signal immediately before the platform, then the next signal on the Up Main is a long way after the station beyond Southall East Junction. Any train stopped in the Up Main platform at Southall will be described at the signal(s) beyond the junction.

 

[infobleep]

Oh well the 06:04 Guildford to Reading has been cancelled so I'll missing all my vonnecting trains to Birmingham.

The 6:04 has run 75 times in the last 6 months and been cancelled 18 times.

Whilst that is higher than the 2 times the 06:47 has been cancelled, I'm still on average, unlucky.

The 06:47 doesn't get me to my destination until over an hour later, complete with a 42 minute wait at Reading. Lucky me.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Southall can be deceptive in this regard.

Remember train describer maps such as open train times or traksy show the next signal the train will approach, not the location of the train.

In the case of Southall there is a signal immediately before the platform, then the next signal on the Up Main is a long way after the station beyond Southall East Junction. Any train stopped in the Up Main platform at Southall will be described at the signal(s) beyond the junction.

Ah didn't know that, thanks.