Grand Central submits Blackpool-London Euston to ORR for 2012

[YorkshireBear]

It's funny how FGW look like they could use the 180's so badly after rejected them.

Its funny how GC routes seem to be identical to Alliances maybe they should just form one company? along with HT who do pretty much the same thing. All with polaris then 180s can release lots of 15X from FGW which can help with some of the most overcrowded services in the country done....

its all so easy on here...

 

[Snapper]

Isn't that what they want to do opposed to what they can do?

There's no point in asking for what can't be achieved!

If people had taken time to read the S17 bid they would have seen that the person who has advised GC on pathing knows what he's talking about - as he wrote the present WCML timetable!

 

[ukrob]

There's no point in asking for what can't be achieved!

If people had taken time to read the S17 bid they would have seen that the person who has advised GC on pathing knows what he's talking about - as he wrote the present WCML timetable!

I did read it, and read who drew up their proposed timetable.

I wasn't aware that one man, who doesn't even work for Network Rail anymore, makes the decisions on the paths they obtain - are you telling me this is the case?

Thought not...

 

[Snapper]

He doesn't make the decisions, but, he has a far better idea of what is possible and what will be allowed than the armchair experts.

 

[ukrob]

He doesn't make the decisions

No, he doesn't, I'm glad we got that sorted

Also, unless you know people personally, you don't know who you are talking to on this site, whether they are an 'armchair enthusiast' or if they have 50 years in the industry (there are at least two on this site that do), or somewhere between the two extremes.

 

[Pumbaa]

Just read that they employed the services of Mr Pilk, however that doesn't change the fact that the franchise holder, and I'll wager the bids will also identify that they want to utilise the xx33 path to Liverpool.

The path looks interesting; slow lines to Hanslope, fast through Weedon to Nuneaton, slow to Stafford and then fast up through Madeley. That's going to go soooo pete tong!

 

[Snapper]

But he has identified paths that would work - something that's a very powerful argument when you present your case to ORR.

 

[The Planner]

I wasn't aware that one man, who doesn't even work for Network Rail anymore, makes the decisions on the paths they obtain - are you telling me this is the case?

To be fair, I hadn't read that they coughed up for Mr Pilkingtons advice, and no one knows the VHF timetable better than him as he did write it along with one other. The Dft will listen to him.

 

[Pumbaa]

But he has identified paths that would work - something that's a very powerful argument when you present your case to ORR.

Then I suppose it'll be ORR weighing up whether or not the path is better utilised for OAO use or second franchised service to Liverpool. I'd very much hope that they plump for the latter!!

 

[Failed Unit]

To be fair, I hadn't read that they coughed up for Mr Pilkingtons advice, and no one knows the VHF timetable better than him as he did write it along with one other. The Dft will listen to him.

I remember that when the Bradford service was proposed, I don't think there was much of an issue about the paths themselves, the objections were going more at ORCATs raiding and the fact that the Sunderland services had not covered themselves in glory for timekeeping. It was more by letting these services run the who ECML will collapse as the 180s fail all over the place. I guess we will see these objections all over again.

 

[tbtc]

Then I suppose it'll be ORR weighing up whether or not the path is better utilised for OAO use or second franchised service to Liverpool. I'd very much hope that they plump for the latter!!

Likewise. It really should be no contest - the biggest place in England with only an hourly London service vs a slow service to a medium sized town. But...

 

[EWS 58038]

but that would involve coupling and uncoupling at preston, taking time, and leasing more than one loco, which would be uneconomically viable...

Coupling/Uncoupling takes two minutes and it would save you thousands of litres of expansive diesel fuel. In the long term I think it might even be cheaper to get the diesel for the last few miles.

 

[GNERman]

Coupling/Uncoupling takes two minutes and it would save you thousands of litres of expansive diesel fuel. In the long term I think it might even be cheaper to get the diesel for the last few miles.

Maybe, but like I said it's uneconomically viable as you would be leasing an extra loco, and working 67's are available now...

 

[Failed Unit]

Maybe, but like I said it's uneconomically viable as you would be leasing an extra loco, and working 67's are available now...

Why you can pay per use?

 

[sprinterguy]

Riviera Trains would probably be happy to be hiring out one of their 47/4s on a daily basis for use between Preston and Blackpool, which would be an option that is available now. However, there's probably a chance that the cost of hiring this extra loco is prohibitively expensive compared to the cost of fuel of running 3 or 4 class 67s up and down the WCML. Though I don't know how the numbers stack up. Plus a diesel loco used to drag the train between Preston and Blackpool would have to run round the train at Blackpool as it wouldn't be fitted with equipment to be controlled from the DVT. Changing locos would add to the complexity of the operation and gives rise to more opportunities for things to go wrong.

 

[northwichcat]

Coupling/Uncoupling takes two minutes and it would save you thousands of litres of expansive diesel fuel. In the long term I think it might even be cheaper to get the diesel for the last few miles.

Tell that to Northern. When people suggested Northern should use portion working to avoid pathing problems Northern's reponse was:
1. We will not ever spilt up or join up trains at stations which are not our main staff bases.
2. It takes too long to spilt up and join up units.

 

[jopsuk]

Yet in the south, especially in 3rd rail land, but also north of the river, splitting and joining is common place. I think there's some trains that leave London to three destinations- and they don't worry about "main staff bases"

 

[MCR247]

3 Destinations? I've never seen that before. Do you have any idea which services as I'd love to go on one

 

[87031]

It seems odd that they already have plans for electric traction to operate on these services when its completed but the 90s are supposed to be getting replaced by the 92s on the sleepers so that would leave them spare to be used by someone. Plus there the 2 86/7s which are now up to 110mph running. Reading the proposal it does seem perfectly viable and well thought out but wont a lot depend who gets the Franchise after 2012 if Virgin are to go?

 

[EWS 58038]

Tell that to Northern. When people suggested Northern should use portion working to avoid pathing problems Northern's reponse was:
1. We will not ever spilt up or join up trains at stations which are not our main staff bases.
2. It takes too long to spilt up and join up units.

Splitting and joining is something the Duchies don't understand I'm afraid.
-1 for Abellio.

 

[bradders1983]

3 Destinations? I've never seen that before. Do you have any idea which services as I'd love to go on one

One of the Sleepers splits into 3 at Edinburgh Waverley, doesnt it?

 

[MCR247]

One of the Sleepers splits into 3 at Edinburgh Waverley, doesnt it?

I forgot about that, I was thinking of daytime trains

 

[jopsuk]

I don't know the timetables well enough to be sure- but I can definitely remember getting a train Connex South Central days (slam door as it happens- so not even as quick on the coupling) from Victoria that ran to three destinations.

 

[Aictos]

One of the Sleepers splits into 3 at Edinburgh Waverley, doesnt it?

The Highland Sleeper joins/splits at Edinburgh and the Lowland Sleeper joins/splits at Carstairs.

 

[Lampshade]

3 Destinations? I've never seen that before. Do you have any idea which services as I'd love to go on one

There's a SWT 159 operated one, think it's Salisbury, Bristol Temple Meads and Exeter St Davids.

 

[Damien1986]

Sounds good. Another welcome alternative to Virgin. Nice comfortable Mark 3s or a pendo. Hmm, I think I will take the Mark3's.

No doubt Virgin will protest and demand they cant serve Preston for London, just like WSMR cant take London passengers from Wolverhampton because of the stupid 'no competion' rule. Though dosent that rule expire soon?.

Let Virgin protest! After all they can't complain about other companies using their routes when they themselves withdrew through trains between Blackpool and London and Cumbria/Lancashire and the South East/South West of England!

 

[frodshamfella]

I'd welcome a service from Hartford. I usually go to Runcorn to get to London on Virgin, but would welcome more choice, and I could easily use Hartford instead. Maybe they will do what Wrexham & Shropshire has done on their serive to London, been on that a few times, very comfortable, and good food, leaves Virgin standing.
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Blackpool - Kirkham Wesham - Poulton - Preston

Wouldnt it be quicker getting the express direct to preston and changing there with a direct service to Euston that is alot quicker?

Also i fail to see Hartford being a big money spinner.. and the return to arrive at Hartford at 00.01? i can't see it sorry

Hartford is a pretty well-healed area, I used to work for American Express Travel in the days BR run the service and called at this station a few times a day on direct London runs,,our client was ICI and a lot of managers used to board at Hartford. It would make life much easier for the Northwich area, where you have to get to Crewe, Runcorn, Chester or Warrington to get a direct London train, all a bit of a drag.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

May I direct you to this:
http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/Grand Cental North Western Briefing 18-11-10.pdf

Has a nice looking train too, Loco hauled!

 

[Geezertronic]

Won't be if they want 125mph stock will it?

 

[GNERman]

it's just a mock up, it will be mk3's not mk2's...