Grand Central submits Blackpool-London Euston to ORR for 2012

[GNERman]

Grand Central has applied to the ORR for permission to operate 4 return services from Blackpool North to London Euston and an extra return service from Hartford, starting in 2012.

These services would call at Blackpool North, Poulton Le Fylde, Kirkham and Wesham, Preston, Hartford, Tamworth, Nuneaton and London Euston. GC has admitted that it is an aspiration to also call at Milton Keynes but this is currently impossible due to the current West Coast timetable. They will also serve Litchfield Trent Valley for the Hartford return services.

Services would be operated with Class 67's, 5 Mk.3 coaches and a DVT. When Blackpool is electrified services will be operated with Electric locos and more coaches.

Services suggested on weekdays are 0814, 1114, 1414 and 1714 ex Blackpool, 0833, 1233, 1533 and 1933 ex London Euston for Blackpool.

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s17-grand-central-wcml-application-form.pdf

 

[Aictos]

Grand Central has applied to the ORR for permission to operate 4 return services from Blackpool North to London Euston and an extra return service from Hartford, starting in 2012.

These services would call at Blackpool North, Poulton Le Fylde, Kirkham and Wesham, Preston, Hartford, Tamworth, Nuneaton and London Euston. GC has admitted that it is an aspiration to also call at Milton Keynes but this is currently impossible due to the current West Coast timetable. They will also serve Litchfield Trent Valley for the Hartford return services.

Services would be operated with Class 67's, 5 Mk.3 coaches and a DVT. When Blackpool is electrified services will be operated with Electric locos and more coaches.

Services suggested on weekdays are 0814, 1114, 1414 and 1714 ex Blackpool, 0833, 1233, 1533 and 1933 ex London Euston for Blackpool.

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s17-grand-central-wcml-application-form.pdf

Sounds good, I certainly welcome the proposals as I doubt the WCML Lancaster terminators will ever be divided between Lancaster and Blackpool.

 

[Lampshade]

I still think my idea is better

 

[Failed Unit]

My only question is where are they going to get the mk3 coaches from?

 

[WestCoast]

Sounds excellent, as this is my local line I will be very happy if we see direct services to London resumed. Especially if they are operated by Grand Central

If they can pick up traffic from Preston they will have enough passengers I'm sure.

 

[43167]

Sounds good. Another welcome alternative to Virgin. Nice comfortable Mark 3s or a pendo. Hmm, I think I will take the Mark3's.

No doubt Virgin will protest and demand they cant serve Preston for London, just like WSMR cant take London passengers from Wolverhampton because of the stupid 'no competion' rule. Though dosent that rule expire soon?.

 

[GNERman]

Virgin has a "competition clause" which stops WSMR but you can apply whilst the franchise is being tendered, hence 2012 for GC, expect WSMR to apply for Wolverhampton then as well...

 

[boing_uk]

I'm a bit surprised by the Kirkham and Wesham stop, but then again, it is a fairly affluent area. However the GC service is still 30 minutes longer than the equivalent service changing at Preston...

 

[WestCoast]

I'm a bit surprised by the Kirkham and Wesham stop, but then again, it is a fairly affluent area. However the GC service is still 30 minutes longer than the equivalent service changing at Preston...

One of my regular stations, would be absolutely fantastic to do local journeys on a loco! Far better that the usual pacers and sprinters!! Mind you, would be quite strange seeing one stop there .

By ensuring the train stops at Poulton and Kirkham & Wesham GC can serve the whole of the Fylde Coast and not just Blackpool. A direct service to London is always an economic boost, and on the whole the area is quite affluent. Plus, if they have a Preston stop they'll get passengers doing local journeys (Preston-Kirkham-Poulton-Blackpool) which can only boost revenue. This may be seen as insignificant but it will further assist in creating a profitable service and will be extremely well received by locals.

 

[boing_uk]

From a purely selfish point of view, it would be nice if they stopped at Kirkham before 08:10, to sweep up all the passengers trying to cram on to the BPS service

 

[ukrob]

Are those stations between Preston and Blackpool long enough for 5xMk3, a loco and a DVT? If not, I assume Grand Central will somehow have to find a way of installing SDO.

No grandfather rights anymore I would imagine?

Not going to happen methinks.

 

[Failed Unit]

Are those stations between Preston and Blackpool long enough for 5xMk3, a loco and a DVT? If not, I assume Grand Central will somehow have to find a way of installing SDO.

No grandfather rights anymore I would imagine?

Not going to happen methinks.

Don't know about that, BR used to run Mk3 coaches down the line, don't know if they ever stopped between Preston and Blackpool however.

 

[Lampshade]

Are those stations between Preston and Blackpool long enough for 5xMk3, a loco and a DVT? If not, I assume Grand Central will somehow have to find a way of installing SDO.

No grandfather rights anymore I would imagine?

Not going to happen methinks.

Blackpool North certainly, Poulton was until recently, not sure to what extent it's been shortened though. Kirkham & Wesham is reasonable and Preston can take a 14-car APT so no problems there either.

Don't know about that, BR used to run Mk3 coaches down the line, don't know if they ever stopped between Preston and Blackpool however.

They used to stop at Poulton, it had the longest platform in the country until recently.

 

[ukrob]

Also, where are the Mk3s coming from?

 

[Chafford1]

Also, where are the Mk3s coming from?

And they won't be taking 125mph Pendolino paths - slow line all the way with Mk 3s.

 

[Failed Unit]

Also, where are the Mk3s coming from?

I asked the same thing earlier, they document states that mk3 are either already available or will be avialable by 2012. Do the know something about a certain open access operator cover Shrewsbury we don't? Cargo D? Ireland's stock? I didn't think there was any mk3 stock left.

Would the 67's be able to use its 125mph top speed anywhere on the route (I thought there was some areas which didn't need EPS for 125 running). I know there are many areas they will be on the slow lines.

Quite a good proposal to be honest, Nuneaton and Tamworth could use a decent service north.

 

[GNERman]

All paths available are slow paths, so Mk.3's are suitable for this...

 

[boing_uk]

Blackpool North certainly, Poulton was until recently, not sure to what extent it's been shortened though. Kirkham & Wesham is reasonable and Preston can take a 14-car APT so no problems there either.

Poulton can take 6 cars, Kirkham should be no problem as the platforms themselves are long enough for about 8 cars, although some of this is in the "rough".

 

[rail-britain]

I am surprised that noone has commented about the use of a diesel-electric loco between Preston and Euston, the vast majority of the route
However, I appreciate that electric locos are equally short in supply

 

[Lampshade]

I am surprised that noone has commented about the use of a diesel-electric loco between Preston and Euston, the vast majority of the route
However, I appreciate that electric locos are equally short in supply

They could fix up the 89

Freightliner may have a couple of 86s going spare.

 

[Failed Unit]

I am surprised that noone has commented about the use of a diesel-electric loco between Preston and Euston, the vast majority of the route
However, I appreciate that electric locos are equally short in supply

Not really, I am sure a few 90's could be dragged out of store and used, maybe even a 92 (although probably not suitabe). DBS are going to have a couple going spare once NXEA don't need them anymore.

But you are right how much real difference would a traction change make a Preston (or drag) unless they can use the 125mph top speed of the 67s for some parts.

 

[Lee_Again]

In principal I'm all in favour of these OA operators, but 5 coaches? It's hardly good use of valuable paths. And slow lines all the way. I see the departure times are advised but no arrival times. Sounds like a 4 hour trip from Blackpool!!

And 67's under the wires; great!

Why not just run DMU's that actually connect with existing Preston>London trains?

Once the wires go up, and don't hold your breath, where is the stock coming from? All the Pendo's are taken. There's few spare loco's around.

 

[Simon11]

I did some analyst for Virgin Trains recently on a proposed Blackpool-Glasgow service. However after completing the analyst, we had already been beaten to it and another toc was running it.

It has always been an idea for Virgin to operate to Blackpool, however they are very limited with stock and have lots of bigger issues to sort out, such as intergrating new carriages and bidding for new franchises.

 

[142094]

Why not just run DMU's that actually connect with existing Preston>London trains?

Just anothr ORCATS raid from GC. However I do like to see new competition and anything that gives Virgin some must be good.

 

[boing_uk]

In principal I'm all in favour of these OA operators, but 5 coaches? It's hardly good use of valuable paths. And slow lines all the way. I see the departure times are advised but no arrival times. Sounds like a 4 hour trip from Blackpool!!

Say what now?

08:33 Dep EUS, 11:54 Arr BPN. So 3hrs 24m northbound
08:14 Dep BPN, 11:31 Arr EUS. So 3hrs 17m southbound

and so on and so forth.

 

[Failed Unit]

Once the wires go up, and don't hold your breath, where is the stock coming from? All the Pendo's are taken. There's few spare loco's around.

Once upon a time their was this operator called GB trains, it ordered some units (new) and created Hull trains, the risk was low as these units were Anglia railways but the operated open access routes. Bassingstoke - Chelmsford and Hull trains themselves.

When the Franchise was up for renewal GB trains got a ROSCO to take a risk and ordered some more 170s and 222s to replace them. The 170s may never have found a home but the ROSCO still took the risk.

I don't see why Grand Central can't get a ROSCO to take a risk and order some Pendo's it is not as if they won't find another user over the next 30 years should this venture fail. I mean by 2019 you may be able to use them on London - Hull routes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just anothr ORCATS raid from GC. However I do like to see new competition and anything that gives Virgin some must be good.

Maybe - but it won't be Virgin by then. At least the new operator will know it is coming so you won't get a GNER style situation.

 

[Simon Poole]

It's an good idea, can't see why they can't put Rugby or Northampton on the map but that has to be Virgin and London Midland...wish these kind of services came early so i can go out and take an photo of them or film it but that something to look foward in the year 2012

Also i would add Stafford, becuase there isn't an direct service from Preston to Stafford, you have to change at Crewe

 

[rail-britain]

Also i would add Stafford, becuase there isn't an direct service from Preston to Stafford, you have to change at Crew

Don't West Coast train services between Birmingham and Scotland serve Preston - Crewe - Stafford with a fairly hourly service

 

[Lampshade]

Don't West Coast train services between Birmingham and Scotland serve Preston - Crewe - Stafford with a fairly hourly service

Preston > Wigan > Warrington > Crewe > Wolves > Birmingham

In terms of direct services to the Trent Valley, Preston has very few, only the first train southbound each day calls at the TV stations and a few Sunday evening services call at Stafford.

 

[bnm]

Maybe - but it won't be Virgin by then. At least the new operator will know it is coming so you won't get a GNER style situation.

Do you know something we don't? Or are you using a crystal ball?