GEML franchise 2016

[YorkshireBear]

Looks impressive, it is a huge investment. I wonder if the revenue will match, there must be the potential there they just need to get it right. And avoid strikes which most new franchises seem to be going through!

There is going to be an awful lot of stock available for cascading elsewhere in the country. If the ROSCOs don't want to start scrapping stock this could lead to some very cheap leases for peak time extras.

 

[HH]

1144 extra services suggests that not all stock will be replaced...

Actually I understand it will. Looks like they're intending to 'sweat the assets' hard.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm genuinely surprised that it will apparently be rebranded to Abellio East Anglia and not Great Eastern Railway, Great Anglia, East Anglian etc. I thought they would have taken the First and NX example to ditch the parent company name as it does them zero favours.

Do we know that that is going to be the public facing brand rather than just the company name? I don't think the announcement was very specific on that so we could get to launch day and find that the brand name is something a bit less corporate (perhaps just East Anglia?).

 

[asylumxl]

I think 93% performance target is rather unrealistic and will never be met. I imagine the DfT will just move the goalposts later, as they did for GTR.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Abellio's own press release mentions bi-modes but not DMUs.

£1.5bn investment to replace one of the oldest train fleets in the country with 1,043 completely new electric and bi-mode vehicles by 2020, with additional capacity added and many existing trains refurbished

http://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-selected-preferred-bidder-east-anglian-rail-franchise

Nothing about branding, but it keeps mentioning East Anglia and not Greater Anglia.
Includes a thumbnail pic of a new EMU.

 

[northwichcat]

1144 extra services suggests that not all stock will be replaced...

DfT have updated their website it now confirms all existing stock will be replaced

replacing the entire fleet with new trains within 4 years of the start of the franchise

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/east-anglia-franchise/

I imagine that means 14 x extra 156s for the next EMT franchise given Northern aren't taking on 5 of the ones released by Scotrail and Anglia will be releasing another 9.

 

[MisterT]

According to the BBC, the other trains are supplied by Stadler:

The franchise will see 1,043 new carriages being used, with the rest being supplied by Swiss firm Stadler Rail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37031833

 

[HH]

Abellio's own press release mentions bi-modes but not DMUs.

What sort of bi-mode I wonder, given the recent testing of battery operated stock.

Another area of interest is Stansted Airport with the Norwich-Cambridge services now being extended. Performance will need to improve if it's not to cause problems with the London services.

 

[43074]

I imagine that means 14 x extra 156s for the next EMT franchise given Northern aren't taking on 5 of the ones released by Scotrail and Anglia will be releasing another 9.

... which would be more than sufficient to allow the next EM franchisee to replace their 153 fleet, that seems to make sense.

 

[northwichcat]

There is going to be an awful lot of stock available for cascading elsewhere in the country. If the ROSCOs don't want to start scrapping stock this could lead to some very cheap leases for peak time extras.

Agreed. We were already asking where the 319s which Northern weren't taking on would go but now there's 100 x 321s and 322s available and they aren't even the most attractive electric cascade option as there's 360s and 379s available.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Agreed. We were already asking where the 319s which Northern weren't taking on would go but now there's 100 x 321s and 322s available and they aren't even the most attractive electric cascade option as there's 360s and 379s available.

Bet Booths at Rotherham share prices have sky rocketed.....

I think the whole industry needs to take a long look at the electrification that may come up. For example if the valleys still got done, they wouldn't need to have 315s anymore! 360s, perfect for MML stoppers in the East Midlands? To scrap stock that is still good is a massive waste.

Is it worth paying for warm storage?

Is it worth running a fleet with low availability for a few years to wait? All questions that now need to be asked, but maybe in a different thread.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

... which would be more than sufficient to allow the next EM franchisee to replace their 153 fleet, that seems to make sense.

The next LM franchise could also take on the 170's to replace its 153's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bet Booths at Rotherham share prices have sky rocketed.....

I think the whole industry needs to take a long look at the electrification that may come up. For example if the valleys still got done, they wouldn't need to have 315s anymore! 360s, perfect for MML stoppers in the East Midlands? To scrap stock that is still good is a massive waste.

Is it worth paying for warm storage?

Is it worth running a fleet with low availability for a few years to wait? All questions that now need to be asked, but maybe in a different thread.

A new thread in the Traction and Rolling stock forum?

 

[northwichcat]

The next LM franchise could also take on the 170's to replace its 153's.

Regarding 170s, note:

1. Chiltern have 4 x 2 car 172s which aren't compatible with their 168s. Anglia have 4 x 2 car 170s which could easily be converted to 168s.
2. LO will be releasing 8 x 172s which could also go to LM.
3. There's a franchise requirement for Northern to secure 18 x 2 car 170s or equivalent by 2022.

 

[TheEdge]

According to the BBC, the other trains are supplied by Stadler

A new member in the FLIRT family perhaps?

 

[Wivenswold]

So in theory 165 x 4 car Aventras. Which would probably wipe out 317/321s. I think the 360's will stay and probably get a dedicated route (maybe Southend Vic?) or maybe a total refurb to Stansted Express standards.

Disappointed that Cambridge to Norwich/Ipswich electrification wasn't included. They've missed a trick there. The Electric/Diesels mentioned could run through London - Norwich services via Cambridge though, now that would be useful.

 

[plcd1]

Railway Gazette have included an image of the proposed new Bombardier trains.

Brief quote as much has already been said.

UK: The Department for Transport named Abellio as preferred bidder for the new East Anglia franchise on August 10. The franchise is due to start on October 16 2016 and run until 2025, replacing the current Greater Anglia franchise which is also held by Abellio.

So two doors per car rather than three as for the 345s.

The Stadler trains are of the the Flirt design.

Complete replacement of the current fleet, with the delivery of 1 043 new vehicles between January 2019 and September 2020. Bombardier is to be awarded a £1bn contract for to supply of 660 Aventra electric multiple-unit cars from its Derby plant, while Stadler is to enter the UK mainline passenger rolling stock market for the first time with an planned order for 383 Flirt electro-diesel multiple-unit cars.

 

[jopsuk]

The 710s will be two door, not three, as well.

I wonder if there will still be a seperate Stansted Express pool? Given the figure of 165 Bombardier units perhaps Stan Ex will get a fleet from Stadler (maybe in 8-car formation) whilst they get a single fleet and single configuration to operate all other EMU service- GE to Ipswich & all branches, West Anglia to Hertford, Stortford Cambridge (and extensions). Operationally this is clearly preferable to having four classes!

Does this mean Stadler will be building the IC fleet? Or is there still fog and we've not seen the actual truth yet?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So two doors per car rather than three as for the 345s.
The Stadler trains are of the the Flirt design.

So is it Aventra or Flirt for the Inter City services?
Presumably a version of the Aventra.

 

[swt_passenger]

So two doors per car rather than three as for the 345s.

I think you have to consider the 345s a specialist design, if these are the usual 20m vehicles most other EMUs tend to be, and the seating layout is more outer suburban and longer distance, then 3 sets of doors wastes too much of the seating area. I doubt we'll see another 23m carriage with three sets of doors until Crossrail 2.

 

[Harbon 1]

So two doors per car rather than three as for the 345s.

That looks like the original stock photo for the Aventra platform. The LO (710s was it?) Aventras will be like that with a 20m body.

So these Flirt bi-mode units I assume are to replace the units (153/156/170 etc etc), with the Aventras to replace the 90s+Mk3s?

 

[northwichcat]

So in theory 165 x 4 car Aventras. Which would probably wipe out 317/321s. I think the 360's will stay and probably get a dedicated route (maybe Southend Vic?) or maybe a total refurb to Stansted Express standards.

Well if the DfT release is correct the winning bid is for a complete fleet replacement (including the 360s and 379s) and almost 100 additional carriages. So unless someone decides to cut back the new order or that more than 100 additional carriages are required then the 360s and 379s aren't remaining.

Disappointed that Cambridge to Norwich/Ipswich electrification wasn't included.

This is a franchise announcement - electrification would be a separate announcement involving Network Rail and it seems they have committed to so much electrification already that no new projects (which haven't already been announced) will start until at least 2023.

 

[hwl]

I think you have to consider the 345s a specialist design, if these are the usual 20m vehicles most other EMUs tend to be, and the seating layout is more outer suburban and longer distance, then 3 sets of doors wastes too much of the seating area. I doubt we'll see another 23m carriage with three sets of doors until Crossrail 2.

The SW franchise tender does nudge in the direction of 3 doors...

Back on topic.

It will be interesting to see with the Anglia units are 20m or 23m (or mix?).

Note that 660 cars could be:
165x 4 car units
132x 5 car
110x 6 car
(or even a mix of lengths for different subclasses)

 

[Dave1987]

Twitter is going mental with outrage. Why? They have screamed for investment for years and now they have got it they are all moaning again.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Disappointed that Cambridge to Norwich/Ipswich electrification wasn't included. They've missed a trick there. The Electric/Diesels mentioned could run through London - Norwich services via Cambridge though, now that would be useful.

That wouldn't be included in a franchise commitment...

It will be part of Network Rails upgrade works. And they are busy trying to keep existing electrification going let alone thinking about previously uncommitted schemes.

 

[hwl]

The current Anglia EMU fleet is:
317 46 units
321 94 units
360 21 units
379 30 units

Which is 764 cars to replace so it look like some of the the existing EMU routes will be getting Stadler units???

 

[Dave1987]

The new operator of the East Anglia franchise will invest heavily to improve services for passengers. This includes:

• 
  replacing the entire fleet with new trains within 4 years of the start of the franchise

Just a little snippet from the DFT website

 

[swt_passenger]

The SW franchise tender does nudge in the direction of 3 doors...

Agree, but I think that's more about inner suburban trains (the standing capacity per square metre question). The point I was making is that in the case of East Anglia, almost all the inner suburban stuff has been transferred to either LO or Crossrail, so would they have to provide that sort of train?

 

[ainsworth74]

Twitter is going mental with outrage. Why? They have screamed for investment for years and now they have got it they are all moaning again.

Were they ever going to be happy lets be honest here? Perhaps if they had been promised a gold plated personal carriage for each commuter but otherwise?

 

[asylumxl]

Were they ever going to be happy lets be honest here? Perhaps if they had been promised a gold plated personal carriage for each commuter but otherwise? [emoji38]

With all this investment, it's almost like they want to win/keep votes in the area...

 

[MK Tom]

Seeing as they're replacing the entire fleet with these two types, I'm guessing there won't be any dedicated intercity spec stock for the Norwich services? In that case I hope these Aventras have some kind of 350/1 style intercity spec interior.