Future TPE Service Patterns (And LIV - NOR)

[Nym]

OK, i've seen it banded about a few places and I think it needs it's own topic.

TPE North:
This is soon to be having everything routed via Manchester Victoria and either the Ordsall Curve or the Chat Moss route. Now as I understand it some pepole are flapping about Warrington Central lossing through services to Leeds, aswell as Liverpool South Parkway.

Now, assuming that there are to be sections of four track over the diggle route, and TPE is routed via Victoria.

I have seen possible plans afoot to stop all intermediate calls between Manchester, Huddersfeild and Leeds for TPE North services, with the gap being plugged by 2tph interurban services running:
Manchester Victoria - Ashton Under Lyne - Stalybridge - Huddersfeild - Dewsbry - Leeds
and a potential for a 2nd all stations Manchester - Huddersfeild, and that this sevice be routed into Piccadilly allong a newly four tracked route via Guide Bridge (so that stalybridge retains a link to Piccadilly)

Now if it is specified that Warrington MUST have a through service to Leeds and York, why not shift round some timetabling, as it's going to need a total re-cast for the Chat Moss anyway.

Airport - Newcatle
Chester - Scarbrough
Airport - Middlesbrough
Liverpool L St - Hull

Would it be best for the Manchester - Leeds / York shuttle to remain within TPE or pass this on to Northern? IMO, it would be a nice use for some of the 'extra' stock that TPE will possess after the electrification of most of their TP North West routes.

Liverpool & Warrington:
Now assuming that Warrington Central would like to keep the current service levels, or have as little lost as possible, there are a few options as far as I can see. Warrington Central will loose a through service to Leeds, but if the above happens then it will gain one from Warrington Bank Quay.
If the EMT Liverpool - Norwich service where diverted away this would leave the Warrington Central route with 2tph stoppers and nothing more, and terminating these trains at Oxford Road is problematic to say the least.
One solution would be to re-open a certain closed railway station near a certain Knott Mill station, also incorparating conversion of a certain light rail route back to heavy rail, but thats a different rant altogether, even through it would allow 6tph over the CLC to Liverpool and an increase of service on the Metrolink and Alt'ham lines, aswell as re-instatment of through routes onto the Mid Cheshire Lines and a possible working through 'East Didsbury North' to Hazel Grove and the Hope Valley.
A more realistc solution that I have touched on in another thread would be sidings through the centre of the slow lines on the approach to Piccadilly from the South, to be able to terminate trains on the new platforms 15 and the old platform 14, or even simpler, some West Facing Bays at Piccadilly; platforms 14c and 15c, although it would be easyer to build another island and have three of them over Fairfeild St.

TPE South: It aint broke, don't fix it, if paths become rediculously tight at Piccadilly, send it through Victoria via Philips Park or Ashton Moss junctions, allong with the EMT Liverpool - Norwich.

TPE North West:

I'm including the scottish services on the assumption that they will run Liverpool & Manchester - Scotland.

Well, I'm open to ideas on this, but have way too many to write them in here, mainly centred about TPE gaining 350/1 type stock to run the services Liverpool & Manchester - Scotland (Joining at Wigan if all via chat moss, or Preston if via Bolton) and Airport - Blackpool N via Bolton.

 

[WatcherZero]

Youre suggesting replacing a route that will soon have 45tph with a route offering 6tph. Its never going to happen without several miles of viaduct widening and heavy demolitions through Navigation road.

I like the idea of the Wigan/Preston joiners, similar has been suggested before in reverse with splitting WCML diesel services. I am curious how many spare paths there are between Wigan and Preston and how many the redirected Scotland services would take.

Its this kind of TPE or Northern services considerations that are prompting questions about what the franchise shapes will be post 2013

 

[Nym]

Not that it's entirely the point, but what I came up with involved 12tph to Alt'ham and retaining all metrolink not going to alt'ham. On a side note, what would need demolition at Navigation road if the entire route from Trafford Bar - Alt'ham was converted back to heavy rail, asside from some building work at Cornbrook...

It would allow more services to run on both routes as they'd then be segrigated, and by possible means of reversal at cornbook, a 2nd route to Trafford Park from the WCML. Not to mention if the 25KV was extended south of Alt'ham a diversionary route to Crewe.

The service pattern I'd propose for the Altham line if it where converted back to heavy rail, asside from the fact that trains are much bigger than trams, would be somthing like: 6tph all stations, 3tph semi fast (Cornbook & selected stations to Altham) and 3tph Semi fast / fast with through connection (diesel) onwards to chester via the Mid Cheshire Line, or Crewe via Middlewitch. 12tph.

And faster journies for Alt'ham, Sale and Stretford.

Central could then also be used to take pressure off oxford road by taking a lot of the services from the CLC lines to Liverpool, aswell as any other re-openings to other stations and routes.

 

[WatcherZero]

Mmm at Navigation Rd if you widened to west rather than east 1 Pub, Navigation Rd Station Carpark would need to be replaced, 1 playing field.

Then switching back to west of allignment 4-6 houses would lose significant part of their gardens, wasteland, pub, 2-3 houses. Then just before Timperley 26 houses on one street.

Long stretch of no demolitions, then a huge carpark at Brooklands with something like 130 spaces lost, then a 650m stretch of road would have to become one way, 3 more houses demolished and your at Sale. 7 houses and 3 industrial units and your at Dane Road.

11 possibly 12 houses then a very long stretch of nothing till Stretford, from that point on its virtually all demolition till old Trafford where you would then have to grade seperate into a two story rail viaduct for about 700m then a complicated flyover before you could join the existing heavy rail line at Cornbrook and widen the viaduct for about 2km.


I think to sum up totally unfeasible

 

[Nym]

Why would you need all this widening if it was remaining to be two track all the way from Old Trafford to Alt'ham? It would only be 4 (well, 6) track at Cornbrook.

And that could be done by dirverting the East Disbury Metrolink line over the what would become heavy line, or under it using an old bridge, then over onto talbot road for a short section of steet running before turning left up paralell to boyer street then on a bridge over Bridgewater Way and the Trafford Park approaches for heavy rail and join into the Metrolink at panoma.

Then at cornbrook, either build a box over cornbrook for the metrolink or divert it to run slightly further to the north west before joining it's current alignment to cross the central approach lines with an S type bridge similar to the oldham loop crossing bridge.

I'd think the double decker cornbrook interchange would be more expensive personally, but either would work, and with little to no property destrution, and no private housing lost.

 

[tbtc]

If you want to retain a link from Warrington to Leeds (which I'm not sure is essential, tbh) then the easiest way to do it would be to link the Llandudno - Manchester service to the Manchester - Hull service (at Victoria). Or a Chester - Warrington - Manchester Victoria - Leeds - Hull service (to relieve pressure on the ATW service through Chester). That way you don't mess about with existing cross-Manchester links (e.g. Liverpool - York).

Replace the Piccadilly - Warrington - Liverpool TPE service with something from the Airport/Stockport lines (e.g. the Buxton service) to avoid conflicting movements at Piccadilly (the existing Scarborough - Liverpool service has to cross the entire throat to get from the Ardwick line to platforms 13/14.

No need for anything fancy at Cornbrook (in my eyes)

 

[WatcherZero]

If you want to retain a link from Warrington to Leeds (which I'm not sure is essential, tbh) then the easiest way to do it would be to link the Llandudno - Manchester service to the Manchester - Hull service (at Victoria). Or a Chester - Warrington - Manchester Victoria - Leeds - Hull service (to relieve pressure on the ATW service through Chester). That way you don't mess about with existing cross-Manchester links (e.g. Liverpool - York).

Thats a very good suggestion!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If you want to retain a link from Warrington to Leeds (which I'm not sure is essential, tbh) then the easiest way to do it would be to link the Llandudno - Manchester service to the Manchester - Hull service (at Victoria). Or a Chester - Warrington - Manchester Victoria - Leeds - Hull service (to relieve pressure on the ATW service through Chester). That way you don't mess about with existing cross-Manchester links (e.g. Liverpool - York).

Replace the Piccadilly - Warrington - Liverpool TPE service with something from the Airport/Stockport lines (e.g. the Buxton service) to avoid conflicting movements at Piccadilly (the existing Scarborough - Liverpool service has to cross the entire throat to get from the Ardwick line to platforms 13/14.

No need for anything fancy at Cornbrook (in my eyes)

I quite like the idea of a BUXTON - STOCKPORT - PICCADILLY - WARRINGTON - LIVERPOOL service. I would be interested to know what stations would be stopped at. It also would offer tourist potentional to the Buxton region from both the Warrington and Liverpool areas without the need for a change en route, as is the case at present.

 

[tbtc]

I quite like the idea of a BUXTON - STOCKPORT - PICCADILLY - WARRINGTON - LIVERPOOL service. I would be interested to know what stations would be stopped at. It also would offer tourist potentional to the Buxton region from both the Warrington and Liverpool areas without the need for a change en route, as is the case at present.

The way I see it, it'd be the same stopping pattern that the current TPE service has through Warrington.

I agree that Buxton is the kind of tourist-destination that would benefit from trains from further afield (in the way that Scarborough does)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Youre suggesting replacing a route that will soon have 45tph with a route offering 6tph. Its never going to happen without several miles of viaduct widening and heavy demolitions through Navigation road.

I like the idea of the Wigan/Preston joiners, similar has been suggested before in reverse with splitting WCML diesel services. I am curious how many spare paths there are between Wigan and Preston and how many the redirected Scotland services would take.

Its this kind of TPE or Northern services considerations that are prompting questions about what the franchise shapes will be post 2013

I think that we have to be realistic and see the case that TfGM in association with Cheshire East council are trying to make for train-tram operation over the heavy rail route between Chester and Altrincham then over the existing Metrolink route from Altrincham onwards into the centre of Manchester. Cheshire East council have currently sought an accord with TfGM to enable them to enjoy benefits to the North-West that will accrue from any concrete transport infrastructure made possible in the coming years.

Cheshire East council are currently looking at commissioning an in-depth study on the existing Chester to Altrincham heavy rail route with a view to making a connection with the existing Metrolink system at Altrincham. Obviously, TfGM will be looking at the findings of this and taking any implications forward into the case in toto of the comprehensive transport strategy that will be the basis of ongoing discussions with DfT

There was hope that the DfT would see the area of the North-West as the first choice to consider any train-tram proposals, but it appears that South Yorkshire was the preferred first choice candidate. I have heard differing views on other parts this forum that the Leeds - Harrogate - York heavy rail route should have been or should not have been a candidate for train-tram proposals, but doubts exist because of the suitability of this method of transport on this particular rail route.

I am NOT, repeat NOT, acting as an advocate for the train-tram system. I just wanted to bring these current proposals onto this thread for purposes of discussion.

 

[Philip]

Not sure why there needs to be a Chester-Yorkshire link. No real market for it and likely to cause delays on what's currently a reliable service from Manchester.

 

[Nym]

Well, it's a convenient place for TPE to push their Hull service through to, considering we're aiming to have little or no services terminate at Victoria and they used to be extended from Hull to Chester in the past, and it would also mean retaining the same number of fast services into Manchester from Warrington.

 

[tbtc]

Not sure why there needs to be a Chester-Yorkshire link. No real market for it and likely to cause delays on what's currently a reliable service from Manchester.

There doesn't *need* to be one, but whenever there are changes someone complains about one link or another that gets "lost"; extending the Hull - Manchester on to Chester/ Llandudno would be a way of avoding this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There doesn't *need* to be one, but whenever there are changes someone complains about one link or another that gets "lost"; extending the Hull - Manchester on to Chester/ Llandudno would be a way of avoding this.

Would First TPE be allowed to run this Hull service through to Llandudno? Wouldn't rail politics come into play here from Chester onwards? They can run to Glasgow and Edinburgh because of the special circumstances involved, so I am told.

 

[Gareth]

People are again overlooking connections to Liverpool Airport. Just throwing it back it me with arguments like "Manchester Airport is bigger" are no justification to overlook it.

Yes, Liverpool's airport is smaller than Manchester, but it's still a significant transport node. Notions that it's a small and strategically unimportant airport are out of date. It's the second largest airport in the north. Third largest in the north, midlands & Wales combined. It relies a lot on traffic from eastwards; not just Warrington but Greater Manchester (which contributes anything upto 33% of the airport's passengers) and beyond the Pennines.

A lot of money was spent on South Parkway Station and it was meant to provide a lot more than a change from the Merseyrail Northern Line to the Northern Rail commuter services between Liverpool & Warrington. Indeed, despite some initial sceptism about demand and reluctance to stop, all services, bar the Virgin ones (no biggie here tbh) now stop there.

One idea I do like is the thought of a station at the airport serving a frequent service back & forth to Lime Street, also calling at South Parkway & Edge Hill. That would make the airport more accessible from Chat Moss, as just one change would be needed for a direct link into the airport. I can dream, I guess.

 

[First class]

One idea I do like is the thought of a station at the airport serving a frequent service back & forth to Lime Street, also calling at South Parkway & Edge Hill. That would make the airport more accessible from Chat Moss, as just one change would be needed for a direct link into the airport. I can dream, I guess.

The Blackpool North - Liverpool South Parkway service goes along part of the Chat Moss route.

 

[Gareth]

Yeah. It goes into Lime Street, sits there for a while and then reverses. Not the best scenario really.

 

[ivanhoe]

Yeah. It goes into Lime Street, sits there for a while and then reverses. Not the best scenario really.

What worries me about the changes discussed are the number of changes to get to Liverpool Airport. If you are starting from Liverpool City Centre then you will be better getting the 500 Bus. If you are coming from Victoria , then one change plus a bus makes you think about getting a Terravision Coach or National Express Coach as they'll get you there direct. What Liverpool South Parkway needs is more direct trains. Once you have to start changing, the Coach becomes the better option, particularly if you are lugging suitcases.

 

[Gareth]

Exactly my concerns. People forget that South Parkway itself is not exactly at the airport and requires another change, bus or taxi, to make the mile or so journey to the airport itself. So, coming in from Manchester Victoria, you have to change at Lime Street or Edge Hill and then again at South Parkway. South Parkway is only really useful if you have a direct link to it. With many other scenarios, you may as well take a bus, like you say.

 

[Nym]

Or hop on the bus at Chorlton St...

Liverpool South Parkway shouldn't be a reason for slowing down fast services between Manchester and Liverpool. 3 or 4tph stoppers between Manchester and Liverpool via Warrington Central would be perfectly fine, and would mean that anyone wanting liverpool airport from Manchester will simply change at either Piccadilly or Oxford Road, like most passengers would need to anyway. It doesn't have the draw of Manchester Airport for many reasons already laid out, don't let the thoughts of one station, a mile from an airport primeraly serving budget airlines skew the more important factors like providing a more appropriate service for all of the CLC route. A high intensity all stations service would be much more appropriate than the current pattern, but would need somwhere to turn them round properly at Piccadilly or Central

 

[Gareth]

Not this thing about budget airlines again. People using budget airlines need connections too. The airport also has KLM, a flag carrier and I'm sure we'll see more in the future. The airport's only going to get bigger.

Slow services from Manchester are not good enough. Enough was spent on building that station and Transpennine & EMT choose to stop at that station, so clearly there appears to be enough of a demand for it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has a MAGLEV-type system from Liverpool South Parkway railway station to Liverpool John Lennon airport ever been considerd?

These are NOT my words. They were basically part of the overheard conversation of two people from Brussels who were making a visit to a conference in Liverpool.

 

[Nym]

Not this thing about budget airlines again. People using budget airlines need connections too. The airport also has KLM, a flag carrier and I'm sure we'll see more in the future. The airport's only going to get bigger.

Slow services from Manchester are not good enough. Enough was spent on building that station and Transpennine & EMT choose to stop at that station, so clearly there appears to be enough of a demand for it.

Unless the paths into Piccadilly get completely congested EMT will continue to call at Liverpool S Parkway anyway. I personally wouldn't sacrifice 3 or 4 paths into piccadilly for the sake of Leeds having a direct service to Liverpool South Parkway.

Come 2014 theres every chance that Bolton is going to loose it's fast services to Scotland and Manchester but do you hear me moaning about it saying it's not good enough? Bolton is a very major juntion in the North West Manchester contribution that manages to fill 8tph into Manchester.

And if you want to talk about demand for the airports, lets talk about annual passenger numbers, the're pretty indicative:

LHR 2009: 66k, 2010: 66k
LGW: 2009: 32k, 2010: 31k
STN: 20k, 19k
MAN: 19k, 18k

Liverpool is the 10th Busyest in the UK with 5k and 5k

OK, lets do it on aircraft movments (2010 data from the CAA)

MAN: 159,114
LPL: 68,164

Yes, maybe Liverpool did show growth last year, but if you look at passenger numbers over the last few years, they've only shown growth last year since 2007. Leisure air travel isn't as popular as it was, and proberbly never will be again due to new taxes cominng into force that will change the landing fees structure. And as Liverpool becomes more congested and popular, guess where Peel Airports will be sending their landing fees...

Also, these princpial business routes you keep mentioning, or I see others mentioning from Liverpool, how many flights per day does KLM have? And how come EasyJet, the budget airline that trys to attract business passengers and not just leisure, as they have a diferent pricing and policies structure more suited for business travel, how come the're concentrating more flights into Manchester rather than Liverpool?

And as a final note, yes Liverpool is the 2nd busyest airport in the north, but in terms of passenger numbers, not that much busyer than Newcastle or East Midlands.

 

[Gareth]

Again, just because Manchester is bigger doesn't suddenly make Liverpool automatically insignificant. Reeling off a load of statistics about that doesn't justify anything. Bolton's not at all relevent here either.

Liverpool Airport is an important node in this part of the world. And by this part of the world, I mean the wider area, not just Merseyside; the myth seeming to be that only people west of Warrington actually use the airport.

There is demand for rail access to South Parkway. If there wasn't, the fast services wouldn't stop there. Indeed, Merseytravel wouldn't have went to the time & expense to have the thing built.

East Midlands Airport has East Midlands Parkway Station. This has a vast array of longer distance services. I don't see any proposals to get rid of them, just because Manchester Airport exists, whilst, despite having over a million more passengers, you suggest a stopping pacer from Manchester is good enough for Liverpool South Parkway.

 

[Nym]

Well, you won't be convinced that Liverpool S Parkway is less significant than a 10min journey time saving for LDPE services to Liverpool, so I'm not going to try any more. So after this I won't be indulging you until you can provide some proper usage statistics for LSP and how they have been affected by the TPE servce pattern changes.

I know where passengers for [stn]LPY[/stn] airport come from, and considering all you're doing is saying that Liverpool is a big airport showing growth (witch it currently isn't on a 4 year MAA) and that pepole east of Warrington use the airport, yes, they do, but someone west of Warrington wanting to get there doesn't justify a direct service, plenty of pepole want to get directly from Blackburn to London but there isn't a direct service, theres a lot of passenger flows without direct services.

Lest not forget that the all stations services only take 10 minutes longer over the CLC to reach Liverpool S Parkway, and that if a concentrated commuter service was created, it would be much more appropriate for the contributions of Warrington, Birchwood, Irlam and everywhere else on the CLC lines.

Newcastle airport only has a stub on a metro system, that does just fine.

East Midlands Parkway is comparable to Liverpool S Parkway; nowhere near the airport, coach link to get there, and if you want to use that as an argument that EM Parkway gets better services, that sees 2tph, and hardly to a wide range of destinations. By that standard LSP is very nicely served.

 

[tbtc]

Under what we are talking about (diverting the TPE Liverpool service via Victoria/ Chat Moss), I thought Liverpool South Parkway/ Airport station would still get four trains an hour from Manchester:

* - 2x All Stops from Oxford Road
* - 1x EMT service from Norwich
* - 1x Semi-fast in the place of the existing Scarborough - Liverpool service (I suggested a Buxton - Liverpool to avoid cutting across a lot of lines at Piccadilly like the current Scarborough one does)

So, that'd still be four an hour from Manchester (two from Piccadilly), which is what it has now. Bearing in mind that there are no rail-links to either Leeds/Bradford Airport or Doncaster/Sheffield Airport, I don't think John Lennon would have a bad air-link?

 

[Nym]

Oh, just to add 4tph on merseyrail and 2tph London Midland...

 

[Striker]

Those annual airport passenger numbers are wrong. LHR had more like 66 MILLION passengers in 2010 and not 66 thousand. And I can guarantee, Liverpool had more than 5,000 passengers in 2010! That's only 13 people per day!

 

[gnolife]

that guy probably put 'K' instead of 'M'
as for my opinion on the issue at hand.
First of all, I agree that Liverpool South Parkway does currently get a sound level of service for the number of passengers... and the attempts to justify it using LJLA's usage seems a bit inapproprate... will there not be people in the South of Liverpool that use the station to get to the heart of Liverpool, and also to other places such as Manchester. However, i do not think that Liverpool South Parkway alone warrants continuing service via Warrington Central, then taking the Guide Bridge line at Piccadilly, as there is surely more demand for services heading south out of Piccadilly (I'd personally say that another MAN-Marple (either station) via Hyde would be better use of the path to Guide Bridge. Someone suggested a Buxton to Liverpool, however, as far as I know, the only largish settlements on that line are New Mills and Buxton itself, and since New Mills currently gets 3 tph to Manchester (2 from Central, 1 from Newtown), means that i dont think that this would be warranted. If there is some agreement that TPX have to do Warrington-Leeds, then my suggestion would be to have the current Hull - Manchester continue to Warrington Bank Quay, terminating in the disused bay between 3 and 4 (i think ive got the right platforms there- the two nearest that horrible factory). I think that the Scarborough - Liverpool, if it runs through Chat Moss, should call at Newton, St Helens and Wavertree, taking the place of the Man Airport - Liverpool semi-fast, and the stock that currently does Man Airport - Liverpool, should go via Warrington, calling Urmston, Birchwood, Warrington Ctl, Widnes, Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street. I suggest adding Urmston because I feel that this can act as a "Trafford Centre Parkway" with a through ticket for the bus 23.
One thing that I do think is that Manchester Airport has too many expresses, I understand that the North-West and Scotland TPXs, plus Liverpool and Southport Northerns run here to avoid cluttering 13/14 at Piccadilly, i completely fail to see why Cleethorpes, Newcastle and Middlesbrough services bother turning around to go to the Airport... this adds an extra hour return trip to the airport on the end, which could be used to double-up 185s for busy routes... maybe have the two northerns make intermediate calls, Liverpool calling Heald Green, Gatley, East Didsbury, and the Southport calling at East Didsbury, Burnage and Mauldeth Road? Just a suggestion like.

(P.S. Im sorry if this all seems a little incoherent)

 

[YorkshireBear]

that guy probably put 'K' instead of 'M'
as for my opinion on the issue at hand.
First of all, I agree that Liverpool South Parkway does currently get a sound level of service for the number of passengers... and the attempts to justify it using LJLA's usage seems a bit inapproprate... will there not be people in the South of Liverpool that use the station to get to the heart of Liverpool, and also to other places such as Manchester. However, i do not think that Liverpool South Parkway alone warrants continuing service via Warrington Central, then taking the Guide Bridge line at Piccadilly, as there is surely more demand for services heading south out of Piccadilly (I'd personally say that another MAN-Marple (either station) via Hyde would be better use of the path to Guide Bridge. Someone suggested a Buxton to Liverpool, however, as far as I know, the only largish settlements on that line are New Mills and Buxton itself, and since New Mills currently gets 3 tph to Manchester (2 from Central, 1 from Newtown), means that i dont think that this would be warranted. If there is some agreement that TPX have to do Warrington-Leeds, then my suggestion would be to have the current Hull - Manchester continue to Warrington Bank Quay, terminating in the disused bay between 3 and 4 (i think ive got the right platforms there- the two nearest that horrible factory). I think that the Scarborough - Liverpool, if it runs through Chat Moss, should call at Newton, St Helens and Wavertree, taking the place of the Man Airport - Liverpool semi-fast, and the stock that currently does Man Airport - Liverpool, should go via Warrington, calling Urmston, Birchwood, Warrington Ctl, Widnes, Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street. I suggest adding Urmston because I feel that this can act as a "Trafford Centre Parkway" with a through ticket for the bus 23.
One thing that I do think is that Manchester Airport has too many expresses, I understand that the North-West and Scotland TPXs, plus Liverpool and Southport Northerns run here to avoid cluttering 13/14 at Piccadilly, i completely fail to see why Cleethorpes, Newcastle and Middlesbrough services bother turning around to go to the Airport... this adds an extra hour return trip to the airport on the end, which could be used to double-up 185s for busy routes... maybe have the two northerns make intermediate calls, Liverpool calling Heald Green, Gatley, East Didsbury, and the Southport calling at East Didsbury, Burnage and Mauldeth Road? Just a suggestion like.

(P.S. Im sorry if this all seems a little incoherent)

the middlesbrough and newcastle ones do it to give leeds and NE a service to manchester airport. and cleethorpes one is to give sheffield a service to airport too. From leeds and sheffield many people go through to airport.