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Future of Class 379

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Mamorin

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They are only trialing batteries, and that is with a 230. They have shown no interest in battery 379s so far.

There is also no sign the DFT would even let GWR have battery 379s.

Don't forget the leasing company will most likely want the same price for battery 379s that they were charging GA for AC only 379s.
 
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JonathanH

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Don't forget the leasing company will most likely want the same price for battery 379s that they were charging GA for AC only 379s.
More? Someone has to pay for the battery installation as well.

They have shown no interest in battery 379s so far.
I'm not sure we know that, but we would have to consider what GWR would have to give up to take on another fleet. (Obviously no public interest but something could be taking place 'behind the scenes')
 

Mamorin

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More? Someone has to pay for the battery installation as well.


I'm not sure we know that, but we would have to consider what GWR would have to give up to take on another fleet. (Obviously no public interest but something could be taking place 'behind the scenes')
Should have thought about the cost of fitting batteries my bad.

While something could be happening behind the scenes regarding GWR and battery 379s, unless the leasing company takes a haircut on leasing costs the 379s are going nowhere. Well other than worksop for storage.

We know from the whole GN plan that went nowhere that the leasing company are not going to take a haircut on the leasing cost.
 

warwickshire

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5V13 1040 Harwich Parkestone Quay to Ilford. The 379s from Harwich are finally on the move. However does anyone know the vehicle identification please of the units leaving Harwich please as of Thursday 23rd February 2023.
According to a good source friend of mine it was 379001 379015 379011.
 

43102EMR

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Should have thought about the cost of fitting batteries my bad.

While something could be happening behind the scenes regarding GWR and battery 379s, unless the leasing company takes a haircut on leasing costs the 379s are going nowhere. Well other than worksop for storage.

We know from the whole GN plan that went nowhere that the leasing company are not going to take a haircut on the leasing cost.
Personally would be more proactive to fit batteries to the 387s to operate the routes the 769s were meant to do - then 379s come in to fill the gaps on GWML services.
 

Snow1964

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Personally would be more proactive to fit batteries to the 387s to operate the routes the 769s were meant to do - then 379s come in to fill the gaps on GWML services.
Without wanting to get too speculative, there are rumours of high tech science corridor being developed by the Government. Stories seem to vary but sort of UK Silicon Valley, or bio-medical or even satellites etc.

Seems to be interlinked to a proposal for a station near Wooton Bassett (and a science park on former RAF Lynham). But basically a semi-fast service Bristol Bath Corsham Swindon Oxford and onto Milton Keynes or possibly Bedford or Cambridge (Might be why East-West Rail got green light).

I am guessing the 379s would be ideal assuming paths can be found on busy Swindon-Didcot section. Actually I wouldn't rule out 379s on London-Oxford trains either. As soon as the new northbound loop platform is built at Oxford could probably electrify sufficient to allow electric trains into and out of the existing platform from the south ahead of doing the rest of Oxford electrification scheme. Realistically could probably have a partial electric service to Oxford within 2-3 years

I wouldn't rule out some other GWR quick schemes like Reading-Basingstoke platform 5 or Henley branch either
 

Meerkat

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Battery 379s would be overkill for the Greenford line and too long for Marlow, maybe some of the other line's platforms too?
 

JonathanH

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Battery 379s would be overkill for the Greenford line and too long for Marlow, maybe some of the other line's platforms too?
They would be overkill but they could still be run with Turbos / 230s while 379s could be used elsewhere. It is going to come down to funding and costs though ultimately.
 

43102EMR

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Battery 379s would be overkill for the Greenford line and too long for Marlow, maybe some of the other line's platforms too?
Greenford will likely keep 230001 now that it’s under GWR ownership (assuming the trials are successful)

I’m pretty sure 387s were originally planned for the Marlow Branch, that is until its electrification got deferred, so not sure if platform extensions were planned.
 

JonathanH

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I’m pretty sure 387s were originally planned for the Marlow Branch, that is until its electrification got deferred, so not sure if platform extensions were planned.
Any hope of electrification to Marlow may have been dropped before the extra 387s were ordered. At one point, the relief line services and branches were to be covered by 365s, with 387s for the faster trains.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fication-progress.83452/page-289#post-3993071
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fication-progress.83452/page-235#post-3452538
These suggest that Marlow was dropped in late 2015. Not sure when the 387 order was pushed up for the final batch of 387s.
 

Class15

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I presume. Most likely to Ilford E.M.U.D depot for decommissioning then to Worksop shortly. However moves are taking place from a few Abeillo Anglia drivers who sign them to Ilford rather than using Rog or Gbrf drivers for that part of the leg of journey to save costs.
However when travelling the Harwich branch this week did notice some fitters in Sidings giving them some attention.
So maybe others on the move shortly.
Decommissioning? Does that rule out future use?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Bourne End and the link to Marlow doesn't drive the whole fleet plan for the non-electrified parts of the GWR LTV operation.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/discussion-on-electrification-and-the-marlow-branch.113919/
That doesn't really answer the question though- the situation at Bourne End places a constraint on train length, so any fleet plan that doesn't consider this as part of the picture will need an exception to deal with that constraint.

If a plan specifies 4-car units for all the Thames Valley branches, Marlow would be left unserved unless you have a microfleet of 2-car units to cover that part of the network. Either that or you have to spend a large chunk of money to allow those 4-car units to operate there.
 

JonathanH

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If a plan specifies 4-car units for all the Thames Valley branches, Marlow would be left unserved unless you have a microfleet of 2-car units to cover that part of the network.
It isn't at all inconceivable that Marlow could be fed either with 2-car Turbos based in Bristol (or their ultimate replacements), or a 230 in the same manner as Greenford.

Under the 769 plans, Greenford, Windsor, Marlow and Bedwyn peaks would have remained Turbo operated, even though 769s would have done everything else off Reading. If 769s had worked, a further procurement would have allowed the Oxfordshire locals to also be switched. (The only issue with this sort of operation is sourcing a replacement if the unit breaks down but to some extent that already applies with 10 2-car Turbos for 9 diagrams, prior to more recent reductions).
 

43102EMR

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Any hope of electrification to Marlow may have been dropped before the extra 387s were ordered. At one point, the relief line services and branches were to be covered by 365s, with 387s for the faster trains.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fication-progress.83452/page-289#post-3993071
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fication-progress.83452/page-235#post-3452538
These suggest that Marlow was dropped in late 2015. Not sure when the 387 order was pushed up for the final batch of 387s.
Even then, that was back when GWR planned the 19 365s spare from Great Northern, along with the 29 387/1s from Thameslink, so didn’t really make much of a difference to the final fleet size, albeit with a reduction of 3 units once the order was changed to all 387s.
 

RobShipway

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That doesn't really answer the question though- the situation at Bourne End places a constraint on train length, so any fleet plan that doesn't consider this as part of the picture will need an exception to deal with that constraint.

If a plan specifies 4-car units for all the Thames Valley branches, Marlow would be left unserved unless you have a microfleet of 2-car units to cover that part of the network. Either that or you have to spend a large chunk of money to allow those 4-car units to operate there.
Not sure if there is enough units, parts etc... But I think you are more likely to have something like a class 230 along the Marlow/Bourne End route.

The only branch route where you could run a four car train is the route to Henley-On-Thames. This could potentially be a battery operated train, whether it is class 387 or 379.


Now, if finance was available an ideal option would be a two/three car version of class 555 or 777 for both Marlow/Bourne End, Windsor and Greenford routes and possibly Henley-On-Thames or use a similar Metro platform from another manufacturer such as Alstom Metropolis or Movia (London Underground S Stock) or Siemens Inspiro. Another option would be to convert the LU 1992 stock, that within the next few years is going to be withdrawn, to be replaced with Siemens Inspiro based trains. But that is probably a discussion for another thread.
 

Ayman Ilham

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Any possibility of an Open Access Operator starting a new route (maybe reviving the former FNW London Euston to Manchester Airport or something completely new like Carlisle to Stirling via Cumbernauld bypassing Glasgow) to utilise the 379s?
 

JonathanH

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Any possibility of an Open Access Operator starting a new route (maybe reviving the former FNW London Euston to Manchester Airport or something completely new like Carlisle to Stirling via Cumbernauld bypassing Glasgow) to utilise the 379s?
They aren't going to be able to make a business case for Carlisle to Stirling as a stand alone service whatever they use as traction. I'm not convinced that Euston to Manchester Airport could pass the not primarily abstractive case, not least because there is already a service to Crewe.

The evidence so far is that no one wants 379s for open access services.
 

D365

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Any possibility of an Open Access Operator starting a new route (maybe reviving the former FNW London Euston to Manchester Airport or something completely new like Carlisle to Stirling via Cumbernauld bypassing Glasgow) to utilise the 379s?
You've volunteered yourself ;)
 

zwk500

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Any possibility of an Open Access Operator starting a new route (maybe reviving the former FNW London Euston to Manchester Airport or something completely new like Carlisle to Stirling via Cumbernauld bypassing Glasgow) to utilise the 379s?
Is this solving a problem of transport provision or the problem of finding a home for trains? OAO proposals that miss out their largest market are unlikely to get very far.

If you look at which OAO have succeeded, it's usually on a route to London where the franchised operator has not served with direct trains, and then added some different stops on the mainline to avoid abstracting between London and the junction station. Grand Central to Bradford, Hull trains to Kingston. There was also the Blackpool proposal that was due to launch (although Avanti have since stepped up their service). Lumo have tried a completely different strategy, with more scope for routes, but still not easy to see where a 100mph EMU would be used to good effect.
 

Ayman Ilham

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They aren't going to be able to make a business case for Carlisle to Stirling as a stand alone service whatever they use as traction. I'm not convinced that Euston to Manchester Airport could pass the not primarily abstractive case, not least because there is already a service to Crewe.

The evidence so far is that no one wants 379s for open access services.
I would've said London to Stirling like Grand Union initially planned for the Class 91/Mk4 but of course a 100mph EMU on such a route instead would hold up capacity on the WCML going all that way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

You've volunteered yourself ;)
If only I had a couple million sitting in the bank :lol:
 

43102EMR

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I would've said London to Stirling like Grand Union initially planned for the Class 91/Mk4 but of course a 100mph EMU on such a route instead would hold up capacity on the WCML going all that way.
The 379s were used as a test bed for the 387s, so uprating them to 110mph is a possibility.
 

liamf656

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I would've said London to Stirling like Grand Union initially planned for the Class 91/Mk4 but of course a 100mph EMU on such a route instead would hold up capacity on the WCML going all that way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
If this is feasible then it wouldn’t use 379s that’s for sure
 

CDM

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Decommissioning? Does that rule out future use?
Not at all.
Nothing is done that makes them unfit for future use. It's simply a case of making them fit for movement and into storage off-network.
 

Southern Dvr

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Not at all.
Nothing is done that makes them unfit for future use. It's simply a case of making them fit for movement and into storage off-network.
What makes them unfit for future use is leaving them pan down or stored on unelectrified lines. Decommissioning is more of an acceptance there’s no future work coming any time soon.
 

southern442

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If this is feasible then it wouldn’t use 379s that’s for sure
While conscious of delving further into fantasy land territory...

379s are quite similar to 387s and so it shouldn't be a huge job to get them up to 110mph. (As an aside, do the GN 387s actually run at 110 on the ECML? If not then you could switch them out for the 379s and then just use the 387s for this idea instead.) The Grand Union proposal wanted 91s and Mk4s, which as they are non-tilt would be limited to 110 anyways. 379s or 387s would clearly out-perform IC225s here, so it might actually make more sense to use spare EMUs. Only problem is the doors-at-thirds, but you could easily put some partition doors in if you wanted to.
 

JonathanH

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379s are quite similar to 387s and so it shouldn't be a huge job to get them up to 110mph. (As an aside, do the GN 387s actually run at 110 on the ECML? If not then you could switch them out for the 379s and then just use the 387s for this idea instead.)
No, the 387s on the GN don't operate at 110mph. When 379s are mentioned as a possibility for GN, it has usually been pointed out that unlike 387s, they aren't ETCS ready.

Previous postings have acknowledged that 379s could be upgraded for 110mph, but making those changes costs someone money.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-class-379.163185/page-3#post-5826575
 
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