Future of Class 379

[Stephen42]

I'm assuming there is a transport cost to storage, storage space cost, and still some basic maintenance costs that will be accrued to prevent them becoming unusable again. The economic incentive is to get them used, even if the lease is low it is still saving those other costs (or moving them to someone else). So, I'd suggest it's either they get leased out on the cheap, or end up scrapped fairly quicky. If the initial 10 year lease was high as suggested they might have covered their cost already (or be well on their way to doing so), so a low lease might be less of a problem.

Could another potential use be to replace some of the aging EMU stock around Glasgow?

Any leasing contract is likely to have extension clauses to protect the operator from a massive increase in price without time to find replacement and put into service replacement stock. As such if leased at an uneconomic rate it may be tricky to move them onto a more suitable rate when market conditions are better. The storage and other costs would be small compared to the potential lease amount.

If scrapped any shortfall from the book value on the accounts to scrap value would have to be recognised making a dent in the accounts. At that point they might be prepared to accept a low lease rate if the financial case is better than scrapping. It sounds like they are going to warm store so their strategy might be hoping that passenger numbers rebound quicker than the government expect with few quick options to expand capacity meaning they can charge a premium price for the 379s.

 

[JonathanH]

It sounds like they are going to warm store so their strategy might be hoping that passenger numbers rebound quicker than the government expect with few quick options to expand capacity meaning they can charge a premium price for the 379s.

However, the leasing market might have 37 350s and 20 720s (and possibly 30 321s) as competition against which the 30 379s would need to be considered.

Worksop (if that is where they are going) isn't really warm store given the lack of overhead lines. Is there any facility there to energise the 379s?

 

[Class15]

Is there any facility there to energise the 379s?

Don’t think so.

 

[William3000]

The depressing thing is that 379s were vastly superior to the 720s - they had 2+2 seating and tables. Excellent trains, especially for the longer distance services to King’s Lynn and Cambridge North from London Liverpool St

 

[Mamorin]

While I never rode on a 379 I must admit the seating on the 379s did look comfy and nice.

To GA though the 720s are superior to the 379s due to the 720s having a higher capacity than the 379s.

While the seats on the 720s do not look comfy I can understand why GA went with 3+2 instead of 2+2.

379 Worksop moves seem to have been rather few and far between, I was expecting more than 2 of them to be at Worksop by now.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I'm guessing this will be another 379 move tomorrow?

Realtime Trains | 5Q79 1304 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Worksop Down Yard | 09/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q79 1304 departure from Ilford E.M.U.D. to Worksop Down Yard on 09/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mamorin]

Any service from Ilford E.M.U.D to Worksop Down Yard will be a 379 move.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The current state of Worksop is:
379005 (Arrived 19-01 on 5Q79)
379020 (Arrived 09-02 on 5Q69)
379030 (Arrived 09-02 on 5Q69)

 

[Mamorin]

Got a feeling we will see the Ilford sets at Worksop by start of next month to the middle of next month.

GA are close to accepting 100 of their 133 720s so soon there won't be enough space at Ilford for the 379s.

So just keep an eye on 5Q69 from Ilford.

 

[JonathanH]

Got a feeling we will see the Ilford sets at Worksop by start of next month to the middle of next month.

GA are close to accepting 100 of their 133 720s so soon there won't be enough space at Ilford for the 379s.

So just keep an eye on 5Q69 from Ilford.

However, now the 315s have gone there is no better use for Aldersbrook than storing 379s. Surely the Harwich units should be the ones moved?

 

[43102EMR]

However, now the 315s have gone there is no better use for Aldersbrook than storing 379s. Surely the Harwich units should be the ones moved?

Will largely depend on the storage costs, especially as all appear to be set to move to cold storage. Not to mention Aldersbrook is already full with 6-8 members of the fleet.

 

[Mamorin]

If it was not for GA being close to accepting 100 of their 720s I would have said the Harwich sets should have gone to Worksop or anywhere else first, given the Harwich sets must be in the worst condition due to Harwich being near the sea.

 

[gdj]

004 & 019 moved from Ilford to Aldersbrook this morning.

 

[dk1]

Both 379s in the Wensum Sidings have been moved onto Crown Point depot. Might just be to give them a run up under the wires but will check again tomorrow.

 

[Mamorin]

Both 379s in the Wensum Sidings have been moved onto Crown Point depot. Might just be to give them a run up under the wires but will check again tomorrow.

Are those the "Showroom" units, aka the ones Akiem had cleaned to look like new units?

 

[dk1]

Are those the "Showroom" units, aka the ones Akiem had cleaned to look like new units?

Not sure what you mean. All those I’ve seen have always had extremely clean exteriors.

 

[Mamorin]

Turns out the units I was thinking of are not the units at Wensum sidings.

By Showroom units I was referring to the units in the photo you posted on page 8 of this thread. Those units being 379018 and 379023.

It was Southern Dvr who first coined those 2 units as Showroom units.

I just reused that as I did not remember which units had been called that, but I remembered two units looking like new trains.

Two of the Norwich based 379s have been removed from the Wensum Sdgs and are now on the depot. Somewhat different to the others spoken about on here as these look spotless and well kept in storage.

No doubt. They look immaculate.

018 and 023 now on 3rd at Norwich Crown Point.

 

[warwickshire]

5V13 1040 Harwich Parkestone Quay to Ilford. The 379s from Harwich are finally on the move. However does anyone know the vehicle identification please of the units leaving Harwich please as of Thursday 23rd February 2023.

 

[Class15]

5V13 1040 Harwich Parkestone Quay to Ilford. The 379s from Harwich are finally on the move. However does anyone know the vehicle identification please of the units leaving Harwich please as of Thursday 23rd February 2023.

Is this good news or will they just go to Worksop?

 

[warwickshire]

Is this good news or will they just go to Worksop?

I presume. Most likely to Ilford E.M.U.D depot for decommissioning then to Worksop shortly. However moves are taking place from a few Abeillo Anglia drivers who sign them to Ilford rather than using Rog or Gbrf drivers for that part of the leg of journey to save costs.
However when travelling the Harwich branch this week did notice some fitters in Sidings giving them some attention.
So maybe others on the move shortly.

 

[43102EMR]

Is this good news or will they just go to Worksop?

Will likely be for routine maintenance, which the other ones stored elsewhere have had.

 

[SJ21]

I really cannot see any harm putting some batteries underneath, and trailing this technology properly. It's been proven that they can be put on 379, so why not try again now. Thinking of some quick win routes where Electrostars already operate in the vicinity, such as Reading-Basingstoke, Oxford-Didcot, Marshlink and Uckfield. If someone really wanted these units for what they were in their current form, they would have been had by now. Much better than using 30 year old Kit like Turbo's when perfectly serviceable units that are at less then half that age are sat around rotting, and technology is advancing...

 

[JonathanH]

I really cannot see any harm putting some batteries underneath, and trailing this technology properly. It's been proven that they can be put on 379, so why not try again now.

Yes, but do it on one unit, not the entire fleet, prove it works, and then do the rest.

I expect that using the 230 as the Test bed first, might then allow the technology to be transferred to the 379s after. In the meantime, the lease costs can be saved.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Yes, but do it on one unit, not the entire fleet, prove it works, and then do the rest.

Wasn’t that already done for a trial?

 

[JonathanH]

Wasn’t that already done for a trial?

Yes, but that was ten years ago, and wasn't entirely successful. Technology has moved on.

Potential use for battery 379 / 387 units

Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-379%E2%80%99s-departure-from-greater-anglia.226784/ Why don't they convert them into Battery-Electric Multiple Units and send them up north? They have shown that they can be converted into a battery train through the trial in 2013 send...

www.railforums.co.uk

It probably is the future of these units but it has been suggested that the 2013 trial isn't directly relevant.

 

[Mamorin]

I think the trial unit lasted for like 20 minuties or so on batteries but needed like an hour on OHLE to recharge the batteries.

So yeah I agree the trial was not very successful.

 

[dk1]

I think the trial unit lasted for like 20 minuties or so on batteries but needed like an hour on OHLE to recharge the batteries. So yeah I agree the trial was not very successful.

I might be bit wrong on though.

It used to get 15mins or so & was always under the juice. Had a couple of rides on it back in the early months of 2015.

 

[SJ21]

As far as I can see, technology has moved on massively in 10 years, and with the whole fleet doing nothing, now is the perfect time to fit with some rapid charging technology to a member of the fleet, and trailing yet again. Think of the possibilities that could be achieved if this is successful.

 

[Mamorin]

For the leasing company to want to fit batteries to the whole fleet would require them to find a TOC would would want/need and be allowed battery 379s.

So far no TOC exists that wants/needs battery 379s.

 

[Class15]

For the leasing company to want to fit batteries to the whole fleet would require them to find a TOC would would want/need and be allowed battery 379s.

So far no TOC exists that wants/needs battery 379s.

GWR?