Future London Underground extensions and enhancements

[telstarbox]

The Jubilee extension was a long term strategic ambition to link up the South Bank, Canary Wharf and Stratford.

The Northern extension was developer-funded, as was I assume the changes to stations around Shepherds Bush for Westfield and Heathrow Terminal 5.

Bakerloo is looking doubtful for the time being although it would unlock housing and gentrification on the Old Kent Road.

Croxley was dropped as it's outside London.

Is the LU network now essentially 'complete' or are there any more extensions which might realistically come forward?

 

[SynthD]

Crossrail 2, the Chelsea-Hackney line, also unlocks a lot of housing. It may not count as LU, but all future projects will be big tunnels connected to NR like the Elizabeth line.

London 2050 (Part 1): The Trillion Pound Time Warp

Time warps allow one to pass from one time to another, as if stepping off an escalator at Kings Cross. How does London today step easily to London tomorrow?

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[LUYMun]

The Camden Town remodeling has been suggested time and time again, but this would have to come down to funding, which is why TfL have put it into back burner. This also leads to a longer-term desire to split the Northern line, but that's a topic talked to death.

I wouldn't be so doubtful about the Bakerloo line extension as that is the most prominent proposal floating around, with general support from the south east London stakeholders - I'd guess developer's funding will play a role in the extension once again.

Other than the Bakerloo and Metropolitan extensions, there haven't been many proposed extensions to the table for the LU network, so I'd expect TfL to turn their attention to station upgrades, such as the aforementioned Camden and Holborn.

 

[pethadine82]

Love to see Pic extended to Windsor. It's about 4 miles from T5

 

[kevin_roche]

Love to see Pic extended to Windsor. It's about 4 miles from T5

I think it is more likely that Elizabeth Line would be extended in that direction. The Southern access to Heathrow might join and allow access to the line to Windsor and Eton riverside.

 

[Recessio]

Bakerloo Line Extension looks the most likely, though I still think not building a station at Bricklayers Arms is a mistake. Will be interesting to see what happens to the proposed takeover of the Hayes line once it reaches Lewisham.

The Northern line extension to Sutton is dead and buried. They wouldn't even extend it just past the existing depot to connect to Morden South. Instead, it looks like an extension to/an additional tram line to Sutton and St Helier is TfL's preferred option.

Croxley rail link is dead unless Hertfordshire Council stump up the entire sum. I believe the route is safeguarded though?

DLR to Thamesmead is also looking more likely than an extension of the LO Goblin, though not sure what effect that will have on services to Beckton as its meant to branch off at Gallions Reach.

 

[AF91]

I can see the Met extension to Watford Junction potentially happening in future if the funding issues were sorted out. Even if the new line would not be in London, it would still be beneficial to a lot of londoners along the route having easier access to the west coast main line.

 

[Chris M]

DLR to Thamesmead is also looking more likely than an extension of the LO Goblin, though not sure what effect that will have on services to Beckton as its meant to branch off at Gallions Reach.

I expect that services would run Tower Gateway-Beckton and Stratford International-Thamesmead (or vice versa).
Really though Thamesmead needs the DLR on an east-west alignment with 2 or 3 stations and the LO on a north-south alignment connecting Barking to Abbey Wood with a single Thamesmead station giving interchange with the DLR. This will require rail-friendly, cooperative administrations in city hall and Westminster at the same time to stand a cat-in-hell's chance of happening though.

 

[Thirteen]

I expect that services would run Tower Gateway-Beckton and Stratford International-Thamesmead (or vice versa).
Really though Thamesmead needs the DLR on an east-west alignment with 2 or 3 stations and the LO on a north-south alignment connecting Barking to Abbey Wood with a single Thamesmead station giving interchange with the DLR. This will require rail-friendly, cooperative administrations in city hall and Westminster at the same time to stand a cat-in-hell's chance of happening though.

Surely both would be too expensive to do at once, it's either one or the other and I suspect the DLR option is cheaper.

The Bakerloo extension is the most likely and I would imagine it would coincide with it getting new stock.

 

[Jonah Kemp]

Bakerloo Line Extension looks the most likely, though I still think not building a station at Bricklayers Arms is a mistake. Will be interesting to see what happens to the proposed takeover of the Hayes line once it reaches Lewisham.

The Northern line extension to Sutton is dead and buried. They wouldn't even extend it just past the existing depot to connect to Morden South. Instead, it looks like an extension to/an additional tram line to Sutton and St Helier is TfL's preferred option.

Croxley rail link is dead unless Hertfordshire Council stump up the entire sum. I believe the route is safeguarded though?

DLR to Thamesmead is also looking more likely than an extension of the LO Goblin, though not sure what effect that will have on services to Beckton as its meant to branch off at Gallions Reach.

BLE won't happen untill new trains which looks to be a long way off at the moment

 

[Chris M]

Surely both would be too expensive to do at once, it's either one or the other and I suspect the DLR option is cheaper.

Yes, I was saying what should happen not what will happen.

BLE won't happen untill new trains which looks to be a long way off at the moment

More trains will be required for the extension, so they are holding off buying new trains until they know how many they need to buy because it's better and cheaper to have one fleet rather than two.

 

[Lewlew]

BLE won't happen untill new trains which looks to be a long way off at the moment

Other way around. New trains won’t happen until the extension is done.

 

[Hadders]

Sadly I don't think we'll see any extension for many, many years. There simply isn't the money to do it.

 

[PGAT]

Some of you guys here are definitely optimistic.

 

[thomalex]

Sadly I don't think we'll see any extension for many, many years. There simply isn't the money to do it.

This is likely what people thought in the mid-80s then there was lots of spending in the 90s. The future is unknown.

 

[Mikey C]

At some point in the future, maybe after CR2, it's possible that the Battersea branch of the Northern Line will be extended to Clapham Junction. I can't see the Morden line being extended, as that line is overcrowded enough without adding more passengers to it!

Indeed that's one of the reasons preventing existing lines being extended, that the inner London core couldn't cope with more passengers (e.g. The Victoria Line not going past Brixton). The Bakerloo is just about the only one with any spare capacity.

 

[Hadders]

This is likely what people thought in the mid-80s then there was lots of spending in the 90s. The future is unknown.

That would be the Jubilee Line Extension, which opened at the end of 1999 and the 95 and 96 train fleets. The entension was to be part funded by Olympia & York who were the developers of Canary Wharf. The 96 train fleet was needed for the Jubilee Line extension.

Other than the 95 fleet for the Northern Line and some mid-life refurbishment of rolling stock what other major projects were done?

 

[JonathanH]

This is likely what people thought in the mid-80s then there was lots of spending in the 90s. The future is unknown.

It is a very different time now compared to the mid-1980s. The future is unknown but there just isn't an agenda for future investment.

 

[leytongabriel]

That would be the Jubilee Line Extension, which opened at the end of 1999 and the 95 and 96 train fleets. The entension was to be part funded by Olympia & York who were the developers of Canary Wharf. The 96 train fleet was needed for the Jubilee Line extension.

Other than the 95 fleet for the Northern Line and some mid-life refurbishment of rolling stock what other major projects were done?tinuingh

Not only part -funded but they threatened to pull continuing the Canary Wharf development bccause the DLR was inadequate. It suffered from IT problems in those initial years before the system was replaced.

 

[Railguy1]

These are all the proposals I could think of at the top of my head. Some had partial funding, some have routes safeguarded and some are just aspirations. I don't think the Northern line will ever be extended to Clapham, mainly because it could be crush loaded and that area does not really need a service into London.

- Croxley rail link
- Bakerloo line extension
- Crossrail 2
- Northern line to Clapham
- Heathrow western and southern rail access links
- DLR/ London Overground to Thamesmead
- Tramlink to Sutton
- Holborn station upgrade
- Camden station upgrade
- South Kensington station upgrade
- Piccadilly line new stock (already underway)
- Bakerloo, Central line new stock
- Jubilee and Northern line new stock
- Piccadilly line new signalling system
- Piccadilly line to Ealing Broadway/ Chiswick Park to Richmond branch
- Hanger Lane/ Park Royal link

 

[Basil Jet]

These are all the proposals I could think of at the top of my head.

- Piccadilly line to Ealing Broadway/ Chiswick Park to Richmond branch

I can't find any reference to that! Could you please elaborate?

 

[JonathanH]

I can't find any reference to that! Could you please elaborate?

I think it is just a switching of the western Piccadilly and District line destinations that is discussed from time to time, usually in connection with signalling, automation, platform heights, or other rationalisation in mind.

 

[Mojo]

Hillingdon Council about 12 years ago tried to get funding to extend the Central line to Uxbridge.

 

[Thirteen]

These are all the proposals I could think of at the top of my head. Some had partial funding, some have routes safeguarded and some are just aspirations. I don't think the Northern line will ever be extended to Clapham, mainly because it could be crush loaded and that area does not really need a service into London.

- Croxley rail link
- Bakerloo line extension
- Crossrail 2
- Northern line to Clapham
- Heathrow western and southern rail access links
- DLR/ London Overground to Thamesmead
- Tramlink to Sutton
- Holborn station upgrade
- Camden station upgrade
- South Kensington station upgrade
- Piccadilly line new stock (already underway)
- Bakerloo, Central line new stock
- Jubilee and Northern line new stock
- Piccadilly line new signalling system
- Piccadilly line to Ealing Broadway/ Chiswick Park to Richmond branch
- Hanger Lane/ Park Royal link

New Tram stock is also on the list as well.

 

[rebmcr]

New Tram stock is also on the list as well.

Plus new LO line between Kew & Cricklewood.

 

[cle]

I would hope for a revised Croxley attempt one day - possibly with a single, doubled ended interim station, vs two.

Bakerloo seems most likely, but may well only get to New Cross Gate or at best, Lewisham. Hayes would be great (Beckenham Junction as a bonus for connectivity) - but anything to help the inner development and cut bus/car use, the better.

Northern to CJ - I think the network can handle it with a full split and frequency. Very much as a Battersea locals link too (at the northern end of the station).

 

[NorthKent1989]

A DLR extension to Thamesmead has been making the rounds again I see, this has been mentioned a few times since 2020 and is much needed, Thamesmead has to be the largest area in London not to have its own railway station.

I can see this happening before the Bakerloo extension happens.

 

[Mikey C]

I would hope for a revised Croxley attempt one day - possibly with a single, doubled ended interim station, vs two.

Bakerloo seems most likely, but may well only get to New Cross Gate or at best, Lewisham. Hayes would be great (Beckenham Junction as a bonus for connectivity) - but anything to help the inner development and cut bus/car use, the better.

Northern to CJ - I think the network can handle it with a full split and frequency. Very much as a Battersea locals link too (at the northern end of the station).

Reducing car use isn't an issue for the people who would potentially use any Bakerloo Line extension along the Old Kent Road, as few people have cars in that part of London anyway

 

[Chris M]

Bakerloo seems most likely, but may well only get to New Cross Gate or at best, Lewisham. Hayes would be great (Beckenham Junction as a bonus for connectivity) - but anything to help the inner development and cut bus/car use, the better.

From memory, the most recently proposed scheme featured no turnback facilities at New Cross Gate so it would need revising (again) if it were to stop short of Lewisham.

 

[PGAT]

If the extension goes ahead it makes no sense to stop short at New Cross Gate