Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[70014IronDuke]

"Has been forced to hire..." makes it sound like a bad thing. I think it's a sensible thing. They're getting in more carriages, more seats, more standing space... why has it been phrased in such a negative light? A cheap shot.

Not that I particularly want to defend the DT, but I suspect the thinking was "forced to hire FROM [far-off] HAMPSHIRE" - ie going to such an effort as there was nothing else.

 

[Taunton]

C'mon Adrian Shooter, offer your prototype train to the media, and let's see how many excuses they can come up with in Edinburgh for not using it

 

[FQ]

There are no ScotRail/DRS loco hauled services running at weekends. Only Mon-Fri the booked trains and the additional specials run.

Thanks. Why aren't they running at weekends?

 

[najaB]

Thanks. Why aren't they running at weekends?

I'd say because they don't need to run as many services so can cover the diagrams with cheaper DMUs.

 

[overthewater]

Scotrail may have misjudge this action, people are complaining on twitter of full trains running about.

 

[najaB]

Scotrail may have misjudge this action, people are complaining on twitter of full trains running about.

I wonder how full they are - are we speaking crush loading or just full and standing when normally they wouldn't be on a Saturday?

 

[sng7]

I would also assume this hired in stock needs maintenance and inspections etc at some point and the weekend would be the best time to do it

 

[edwin_m]

C'mon Adrian Shooter, offer your prototype train to the media, and let's see how many excuses they can come up with in Edinburgh for not using it

Even if they've finished the first one, by the time they got approval and did staff training it would be well into 2016.

 

[me123]

Not that I particularly want to defend the DT, but I suspect the thinking was "forced to hire FROM [far-off] HAMPSHIRE" - ie going to such an effort as there was nothing else.

Which brings me back to the point... are Scotrail expected to have dozens of trains sitting waiting for an instance like this?

I suspect that any other TOC in a similar circumstance would make a similar business decision to pull in rolling stock from elsewhere.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I would also assume this hired in stock needs maintenance and inspections etc at some point and the weekend would be the best time to do it

Yes, and just to head off the inevitable comments about running for a couple of weeks with reduced maintenance (which I know most people would laugh out of court immediately) - now is absolutely not the time to try and be clever with maintenance, a derailment caused by out of specification suspension and bushes, for example, could be catastrophically disruptive, the last thing you want is a Class 67 and a couple of Mk.2s taking out some of the points at Waverley before the Forth Road Bridge re-opens.

 

[najaB]

...the last thing you want is a Class 67 and a couple of Mk.2s taking out some of the points at Waverley before the Forth Road Bridge re-opens.

Or worse still the crossovers at Dalmeny or North Queensferry.

 

[455driver]

Yes, and just to head off the inevitable comments about running for a couple of weeks with reduced maintenance (which I know most people would laugh out of court immediately) - now is absolutely not the time to try and be clever with maintenance, a derailment caused by out of specification suspension and bushes, for example, could be catastrophically disruptive, the last thing you want is a Class 67 and a couple of Mk.2s taking out some of the points at Waverley before the Forth Road Bridge re-opens.

When the units are 'sweated' it is only routine things that are delayed, any safety items will still be maintained to the same standard, safety is never ever compromised in these situations!

 

[Scotrail84]

The T and T 67s ran out of fuel on Friday. They had to cancel the 16:17 to inverteithing so they could run it up to haymarket depot to fuel the locos. Imagine that failing on the mainline with no fuel. That would screw everything.

Who has to answer for that? DRS control? The driver that preped the set? Certainly not the guard.

 

[dk1]

I wonder how full they are - are we speaking crush loading or just full and standing when normally they wouldn't be on a Saturday?

I was thinking the same. Many passengers outside London & the SE seem shocked if they can't get a seat, which obviously doesn't come as a guarantee anyway. I would imagine most trains are very busy but far from crush loaded.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The T and T 67s ran out of fuel on Friday. They had to cancel the 16:17 to inverteithing so they could run it up to haymarket depot to fuel the locos. Imagine that failing on the mainline with no fuel. That would screw everything.

Who has to answer for that? DRS control? The driver that preped the set? Certainly not the guard.

Does it do any damage to the loco/unit engines if a unit/loco runs out of fuel?

 

[route:oxford]

The T and T 67s ran out of fuel on Friday. They had to cancel the 16:17 to inverteithing so they could run it up to haymarket depot to fuel the locos. Imagine that failing on the mainline with no fuel. That would screw everything.

Who has to answer for that? DRS control? The driver that preped the set? Certainly not the guard.

What did they use to drag it along to Haymarket?

Or was it a case of the driver identified there would be insufficient fuel to complete the next diagram?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Which brings me back to the point... are Scotrail expected to have dozens of trains sitting waiting for an instance like this?

I suspect that any other TOC in a similar circumstance would make a similar business decision to pull in rolling stock from elsewhere.

You know that, I know that, and most people in here will know that - maybe, one day, maybe even the intrepid DT "will be able to reveal" that

 

[Class 170101]

Does anyone know if Scotrail will put the 68s/67s out on Saturday the 19th since it's on the run up to Xmas?

There are no ScotRail/DRS loco hauled services running at weekends. Only Mon-Fri the booked trains and the additional specials run.

Thanks. Why aren't they running at weekends?

I think the point is being asked why aren't the loco sets being used this Saturday (and I'll ask about Sunday) as this is the last weekend before Christmas. The trains are bound to be busy to / from Edinburgh with Christmas shoppers, even more so now with the Forth Bridge closure, in a similar way Northern provide extra capacity to Manchester using loco hauled trains on the Saturdays up to Christmas.

I'd say because they don't need to run as many services so can cover the diagrams with cheaper DMUs.

Additionally if that is true why are there problems covering strengthening on the Borders services at the weekends if their are DMUs available.

 

[FQ]

Agreed. I might be in Edinburgh that day and would love to ride on one of them!

 

[najaB]

Additionally if that is true why are there problems covering strengthening on the Borders services at the weekends if their are DMUs available.

I'd guess because normally they finish up work on a Friday at the wrong depots. Now, with additional units moved to Haymarket to cover the additional weekday Fife services they finish the day on Friday at Haymarket and can be used over the weekend.

 

[Scotrail84]

What did they use to drag it along to Haymarket?

Or was it a case of the driver identified there would be insufficient fuel to complete the next diagram?

One engine shut down the other was still running

I think the point is being asked why aren't the loco sets being used this Saturday (and I'll ask about Sunday) as this is the last weekend before Christmas. The trains are bound to be busy to / from Edinburgh with Christmas shoppers, even more so now with the Forth Bridge closure, in a similar way Northern provide extra capacity to Manchester using loco hauled trains on the Saturdays up to Christmas.



Additionally if that is true why are there problems covering strengthening on the Borders services at the weekends if their are DMUs available.

Agreed. I might be in Edinburgh that day and would love to ride on one of them!

68s are used for freight too. DRS need them elsewhere. The crews need a day off. Coaches need maintained, brake blocks changed etc.

There's nowhere near as many morning or evening services at weekends that need strengthening because there's no peak times so there is more available dmus kicking about. A lot of the fifes yesterday were 4,5 and 6 cars. This is because the queen sts run as 3s on a Saturday.

 

[childwallblues]

Which brings me back to the point... are Scotrail expected to have dozens of trains sitting waiting for an instance like this?

I suspect that any other TOC in a similar circumstance would make a similar business decision to pull in rolling stock from elsewhere.

Spot on there. Which is why TOCs including Scotrail already use LHCS on peak hour services.

 

[Class 170101]

Anyone have any idea whether the relief services will be running between Christmas and New Year and from 4th January?

 

[sng7]

Anyone have any idea whether the relief services will be running between Christmas and New Year and from 4th January?

Well assuming the bridge reopens by the 4th i would think there will be no extra services after then but i haven't heard anything about between Christmas and new year

 

[dcsprior]

Is it possible that a lot of people who normally travel by car / bus / coach, will have been pleasantly surprised by the way the railway has kept everyone moving and so there'll be a lasting uplift in passenger numbers?

 

[IanXC]

Is it possible that a lot of people who normally travel by car / bus / coach, will have been pleasantly surprised by the way the railway has kept everyone moving and so there'll be a lasting uplift in passenger numbers?

On the flipside in my experience even at 6 cars, at 9 at night services have been literally full of standees...

 

[marks87]

The FRB is reopening at 6am tomorrow to all traffic except HGVs.

I would imagine ScotRail will continue to run the additional services tomorrow and Thursday, but won't restart them after Christmas.

 

[LeylandLen]

Yes , reopens tmorrow , see this BBC news item.

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-35160296"

HGVs not allowed on until mid- February at the earliest .

 

[najaB]

I would imagine ScotRail will continue to run the additional services tomorrow and Thursday, but won't restart them after Christmas.

I'd expect the same as passenger numbers are normally light due to lots of people taking time off between the holidays.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

ScootRail are quoted as saying the 05.52 will continue to run as long as there is demand for it.