There are 6 races remaining, with 25 for first and 18 for second, that's a net 7 points for each race, so +42 to Norris if he and Max finished 1-2 in each one. 3 of these races are sprint weekends, 8 for first and 7 for second in the sprints, so +3. So purely based on that, +45 isn't enough to overhaul Max's 52 point lead. However presumably the assumption is being made that Lando would get fastest lap in every race he wins, which would be another 6 points bringing him to +51 . So not getting the fastest lap last time out does from a strictly mathematical sense take it out of Norris's hands, but it was extremely unlikely that Lando was ever going to manage such a clean sweep.
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Formula 1
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I can't see Norris winning every race and RB showed signs that they have pulled themselves together at Singapore, Max will be a 4 times world champion, I'm sure.
Narrowgauge725
Member
I see Max is trying to trade mark ‘simply lovely’. Things is he has missed his trademark word out ‘f***’ so no one will know it is him anyway.
From 2025, there will no longer be a point for Fastest Lap.
I presume this is a reaction to Singapore, but I'd have changed it so that any driver who finishes can earn the point.
Young drivers will also get double the number of FP1 sessions with each driver having to sit out 2 sessions from 2025 instead of 1 each at present.
I presume this is a reaction to Singapore, but I'd have changed it so that any driver who finishes can earn the point.
Young drivers will also get double the number of FP1 sessions with each driver having to sit out 2 sessions from 2025 instead of 1 each at present.
Tetragon213
Member
Tbqh, I would have preferred it if they made the Fastest Lap point available to any driver, not just the ones in the top 10.
If nothing, it would lead to some entertaining shenanigans, with the P11-and-below backmarkers all diving into the pits for fresh boots in vain hopes of a point.
If nothing, it would lead to some entertaining shenanigans, with the P11-and-below backmarkers all diving into the pits for fresh boots in vain hopes of a point.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I notice Verstappen was up to his old crash or ram tactics again that he tried with Hamilton a couple of years ago. No penalty. Norris uses same tactics and gets penalty. Very frustrating. Same old Red Bull.
The girly whining on the radio also does my head in. Children.
The girly whining on the radio also does my head in. Children.
Tetragon213
Member
Inconsistent stewarding is one of my biggest peeves in F1.
Also, I cannot believe the amount of tomfoolery that Verstappen gets away with. There's a sarcastic video out there set to the tune of "Baby Give it Up" featuring Max's incidents and his whining overtop.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I don't mind aggressive racing/ crash or ram tactics but we have to apply the same rules to all. Verstappen gets away with it time and again. He did with Hamilton ( who was to wily to fall for his games and simply beat him on track until robbed by the FIA) and he will do it with Norris. He needs dealing with OR let everyone do it!
Same with track limits. Apply to all or none. My view is the wall should be the track limit - if you go off and style it our, fair play. If not = crunch.
Tetragon213
Member
I agree with the first part. I also don't mind hard racing as long as the stewards apply the rules consistently. Max seems to get a lot of preferential treatment tho imo.
Regarding track limits, I think a more pragmatic approach needs to be taken. On the one hand, putting walls/barriers a la Monaco sounds like a good idea to stop track limit abuse, but on the other, it also sounds like a great way to have championships being decided more by injury than by skill of the drivers. I'd prefer to see gravel/grass brought back as opposed to tarmac runoffs as a deterrent, but otherwise leave it up to the drivers to sort it out.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
agreed - the wall is the ultimate track limit!
in seriousness - they go for tarmac run offs as they have a better chance of stopping/retarding an out of control car and I don't think that will change. Gravel can cause a car to dig in and roll apparently.
Tetragon213
Member
I don't know if there's a name for it, but I remember that Suzuka and Silverstone have a really thin strip of grass as a deterrent against track limit breaches, but then after about 2 feet of grass it's tarmac all the way to the wall, to catch anyone who really loses it.
It was a very good battle between Verstappen & Norris until the incident with excellent placing of the cars to defend & attack.
To solve the issue if the Austria gravel solution had been put in which involves a thin strip of gravel between the kerb & run off it would have solved the many incidents at this corner. The problem with turning them into full gravel traps is it is no good for MotoGP as riders tend to bounce more in gravel causing more injuries than with tarmac. The Austrian gravel solution was removed for the following MotoGP round at the same track.
To solve the issue if the Austria gravel solution had been put in which involves a thin strip of gravel between the kerb & run off it would have solved the many incidents at this corner. The problem with turning them into full gravel traps is it is no good for MotoGP as riders tend to bounce more in gravel causing more injuries than with tarmac. The Austrian gravel solution was removed for the following MotoGP round at the same track.
I've followed F1 for over 30 years and I'm finding it's getting to be more and more difficult to follow and enjoy.
I always thought in motor sport you had to leave a car's width when passing, some drivers were very good at leaving a car width plus the tiniest margin! It seems this tactic of just running the other car off the track is acceptable (especially if you drive a certain Red Bull), how on earth is there going to be fair racing?
On another note, does anyone have recommendations where to listen live, I refuse to pay for Sky F1 and am not enjoying the BBC coverage, Marc Priestly is a excellent analyst but the commentor drives me up the wall and don't get me started on Andrew "biased" Benson
I always thought in motor sport you had to leave a car's width when passing, some drivers were very good at leaving a car width plus the tiniest margin! It seems this tactic of just running the other car off the track is acceptable (especially if you drive a certain Red Bull), how on earth is there going to be fair racing?
On another note, does anyone have recommendations where to listen live, I refuse to pay for Sky F1 and am not enjoying the BBC coverage, Marc Priestly is a excellent analyst but the commentor drives me up the wall and don't get me started on Andrew "biased" Benson
DarloRich
Veteran Member
aaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddd Verstapen is up to his crash or ram tactics AGAIN. Lets see if anything happens..................
EDIT - 10 second penalty given for forcing a driver off the track. Good. Finally. He will be whining like a baby
EDIT - 10 second penalty given for forcing a driver off the track. Good. Finally. He will be whining like a baby
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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And now another 10 seconds, and it’s about time.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Good. About time he got slapped
Sadly he doesn’t seem bothered on the radio.
Verstappen is leading the WDC by 57 points with 4 races to go and Norris isn’t in P1. He can do his own maths.
43096
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You'd think it would work on the basis of one penalty = equivalent of a "yellow card". Second yellow = red (black flag).
But it's F1. So it doesn't.
Will verstappen make it to the end of the race on those tyres though?
Crithylum
Member
Ferrari only 29 points behind Mclaren in the constructor's.
At the current rate (the last 2 races), Ferrari are looking in a strong position to clinch it from Mclaren. Imagine if at the start of the season someone predicted that the constructor's would be a fight between Mclaren and Ferrari, with Red Bull out of the picture.
The points that Haas have scored will also make it very difficult for whatever Red Bull corporate feels like naming the team to take 6th place.
At the current rate (the last 2 races), Ferrari are looking in a strong position to clinch it from Mclaren. Imagine if at the start of the season someone predicted that the constructor's would be a fight between Mclaren and Ferrari, with Red Bull out of the picture.
The points that Haas have scored will also make it very difficult for whatever Red Bull corporate feels like naming the team to take 6th place.
357
Established Member
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You're right, this is F1, not football.
Here, we have time penalties and penalty points. We also have black & white flags and black flags. You're not normally going to get a black flag without a black & white prior.
There are a maximum number of penalty points over a rolling 12 month period, and track limits strikes leading to penalties per race.
The rules and flag meanings are freely available online if you want to check them out.
Please see attached document for further details of the Max-Lando incident.
Attachments
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Verstappen got what he deserved. He has been using his crash off or ram manoeuvre for several years without penalty. It is about time he got slapped with a decent penalty for doing so.
He does it all the time, he straight lines the corner to force a challenging car to go off the track or ram him. He knows anyone challenging for the title cant afford to ram him and he knows most stewards wont penalise him, if only to avoid the torrent of whinny red bull executives hammering on the door!
I heard Cristian Horner moaning about Verstappen being penalised and I immediately though of that famous exchange with Toto "Rainier Wolfcastle" Wolf: You've got a problem. Change your ****ing drivers attitude!
Verstappen is a very, very good driver. He just needs to be made to behave in the same spirit as the other drivers on the grid!
357
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Agreed. I'm all for pushing rules to the absolute limit, and unfortunately Max knows when he's on the inside he can push the other car off the track and they will get a limits violation. When both cars go off and we're going too fast to make the corner it's one thing, but what Max has been doing shouldn't be permitted within the rules.
Here, we are going to disagree. Penalties should be given for the incident and not for historical issues. Jonny Herbert has more and more eyes on him now for letting personal issues impact his stewarding. I would like to see why they imposed higher penalties than for other similar incidents.
The penalties given should be consistent and the rules applied consistently, to all drivers.
Agreed. I enjoy hard racing but it also needs to be fair. Again, with any luck the meeting regarding rules in a few weeks will fix this.
And the reason why needs to be investigated.
Other teams do exactly the same, "Michael, I have sent you an email", can't blame people for doing their jobs.
Yes, I agree.
On a personal note Austin was a good watch, but while yesterday was good to watch as a RB fan it became embarrassing.
We had a dirty driver in one car and an old granny in the other.
Max had a 24 second pitstop, was 2 seconds in front of Perez, 10 laps after, max is 9th and soon 8th but Perez didnt move a bit.
Meanwhile, Yuki is going to be overlooked for the seat in the main team like he always is, rumours are floating around of Liam taking the second seat next year and Franco going into the VCARB seat.
At least the constructors championship is interesting this year.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
because they were sick of him and the stewards knew a mistake was made last week. It happens in all sports. It also works the other way tough: Fergie time penalties
Agree - but the point is they haven't been! Verstappen has got away with things other drivers would be penalised for. Plus you will never get consistency in a debatable situation. Ever VAR cant get it right in football so why would a human get it right when they have to interpret behaviours on track against the spirit and intent of the regulations.
I would say the best we can hope for is fairness. I don't think we have had that with regard to Verstappen.
Red Bull SEEM to excel at this whining though! They ( as in ALL teams) should not be allowed to do it
He also couldn't park in his grid slot correctly...........
Red Bull do not rate or want Yuki Tsunoda for whatever reason - Honda had to force them to grant him an after season Red Bull test! Who Red Bull put in thier 3 open seats for next year is anyone's guess!
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357
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