Formula 1

[JamesT]

As for the TV coverage, when I want to watch I find a dodgy stream which I'm sure is using my laptop to mine for Monero or Dogecoin or something. I'd rather give my money to Vladimir Putin than Rupert Murdoch; Putin is less evil.

Sky was sold to Comcast in 2018, Murdoch has nothing to do with it any more.

 

[Donny Dave]

Could well be game on at the end of the month. I admit, I thought that Red Bull would be better at Monza, but the next 2 races are at Baku and Singapore, 2 tracks that don't suit the Red Bull as they are bumpy street circuits.

McLaren need to put Lando first to ensure he is in a position to pick up as many points as possible in those 2 races, and hope Red Bull don't bring any upgrades.

 

[RailWonderer]

I genuinely think letting the two of them race cost McLaren a 1-2 yesterday. Norris stuck behind Leclerc led to the early stop, the early stop led to a 2-stop race. Fair play to Leclerc for making the 1-stop work despite stopping the lap after Norris and the lap before Piastri, a very impressive drive given how Sainz's newer tyres dropped off more quickly.

That 1-2 becoming a 2-3 cost them 10 points and after Monza they're only 8 points behind Red Bull.

I don't blame Piastri for getting punchy but I can't believe 'papaya rules' aren't that whoever leads into the first corner isn't challenged.

As for Norris, he needs to be more ruthless. Hamilton and Verstappen would both have yeeted a team-mate into the wall if they'd tried that on them.

As for the TV coverage, when I want to watch I find a dodgy stream which I'm sure is using my laptop to mine for Monero or Dogecoin or something. I'd rather give my money to Vladimir Putin than Rupert Murdoch; Putin is less evil.

As a purist I don't like seeing race rigging - that's what team orders are. With a few exceptions (Coulthard - Hakkinen) McLaren's philosophy since the 60s has always been to let both drivers race, as that's the right and fair thing to do, unless one driver is mostly dominant over the other. You have to be fair to Piastri and let him race, and for us the audience it's far more exciting than it would be to see Piastri give up a place each time, so I'm anti team orders, to me it's like a boxer throwing a fight.

What you say about being stuck behind Leclerc doesn't stick because Leclerc also got stuck behind both Mclarens for half the race. Ferrari had the more balanced package which was softer on the tyres and although Mclaren had a sight edge in pure pace, their tyre deg was far too high, regardless of traffic.

 

[66701GBRF]

I'd rather give my money to Vladimir Putin than Rupert Murdoch; Putin is less evil.

Come on, let's at least try and make a suitable comparison.

As for McLaren, I think it's good they let their drivers race, but as a McLaren fan I wish they'd be a bit more sensible when allowing them to do so. Should be done after the first lap once it's all settled down a bit, not within the first few corners and handing a place to a rival.

 

[357]

I'd rather give my money to Vladimir Putin than Rupert Murdoch; Putin is less evil.

As someone who is currently in Ukraine waiting for the electricity to come back on, after being repeatedly woken up during the night by air raid sirens - this has got to be the most ridiculous comment I've seen on this forum for a long time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

this has got to be the most ridiculous comment I've seen on this forum for a long time

It’s called a joke. Although Rupert is pretty evil, obviously I don’t really think he’s quite as evil as Putin.

Still won’t give Sky my money though.

As a purist I don't like seeing race rigging - that's what team orders are. With a few exceptions (Coulthard - Hakkinen) McLaren's philosophy since the 60s has always been to let both drivers race, as that's the right and fair thing to do, unless one driver is mostly dominant over the other

I don’t think anyone likes team orders but unless we have one car teams then they’re all part of the game.

Piastri is 44 points behind Norris, realistically only Norris has even an outside chance of the WDC, so I think letting them race at this stage of the season is just plain dumb. And even worse, it’s cost them points in the WCC. They threw away 10 points but are only 8 points behind Red Bull.

 

[najaB]

I felt that was a bit silly yesterday. An extra 10 points for Norris would be 50-odd points to Verstappen and utterly game on.

Winning the driver's championship brings the team exactly zero money.

 

[66701GBRF]

Winning the driver's championship brings the team exactly zero money.

Zero prize money maybe, but maybe not from future sponsorship and advertisements.

 

[najaB]

Zero prize money maybe, but maybe not from future sponsorship and advertisements.

Again, people buy a McLaren not a Norris.

 

[kristiang85]

Again, people buy a McLaren not a Norris.

The drivers' titles carry a lot more prestige. People naturally connect with drivers more than teams (aside from Ferrari maybe), so having a WDC in your ranks definitely means a lot more merchandise sales and sponsorship opportunities. Also people will actually buy more cars if its from a team that helped a driver become a World Champion.

People wear caps with number 1 for their drivers; you rarely see merch banging on about how many constructors' titles have been won.

 

[najaB]

People wear caps with number 1 for their drivers; you rarely see merch banging on about how many constructors' titles have been won.

Yet people are Red Bull fans or Ferrari fans regardless of the drivers.

 

[Tetchytyke]

People naturally connect with drivers more than teams (aside from Ferrari maybe), so having a WDC in your ranks definitely means a lot more merchandise sales and sponsorship opportunities.

Do they? Red Bull fans were Red Bull fans when it was Vettel and Webber, then Danny Ric and Vettel, then Danny Ric and Verstappen.

We see similar with McLaren, McLaren fans were McLaren fans when it was Lauda and Prost, then Senna, then Hakkinen, then Raikkonen, then Hamilton and Alonso and Button.

I'm not sure that many fans really do follow the driver.

Winning the driver's championship brings the team exactly zero money.

Costs them money in bonuses!

Although letting them race cost them 10 points in the constructors (the difference between a 1-2 and a 2-3). And that does bring in the dough. Given they're only 8 points behind Red Bull and surely Red Bull won't be as bad again at the next race then I'm sure that will smart. I wonder if this will be the time that Zak decides to change the papaya rules?

 

[JamesT]

Do they? Red Bull fans were Red Bull fans when it was Vettel and Webber, then Danny Ric and Vettel, then Danny Ric and Verstappen.

We see similar with McLaren, McLaren fans were McLaren fans when it was Lauda and Prost, then Senna, then Hakkinen, then Raikkonen, then Hamilton and Alonso and Button.

I'm not sure that many fans really do follow the driver.

I’d suggest as a counter example the orange army. I’m fairly sure the vast majority of them would shift their support to whoever Max drives for.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I’d suggest as a counter example the orange army. I’m fairly sure the vast majority of them would shift their support to whoever Max drives for.

Possibly, in the same way that a lot of Schumacher fans followed him from Benetton to Ferrari.

But they're slightly different in that they followed the driver from the beginning. They're not Red Bull fans. Whether Max wins the WDC this year won't make a dent on merchandise sales.

 

[Crithylum]

Who won 2021? Most people would say Max, not Mercedes who won the constructor's. People barely remember the constructors, hence why most of the prestige comes from the drivers championship. On another note, Mclaren are basically guaranteed the constructors at this point, given the form of the RB and in particular their second driver.
However winning the constructor's has its downsides, such as reduced aerodynamic testing. I think this in addition to the cost cap violation punishment is a factor in Red Bull's decline, although I doubt that it can all be attributed to this one factor.

 

[PG]

However winning the constructor's has its downsides, such as reduced aerodynamic testing. I think this in addition to the cost cap violation punishment is a factor in Red Bull's decline, although I doubt that it can all be attributed to this one factor.

Another factor is likely to be the absence of a certain Mr.Newey.

 

[DelW]

Who won 2021? Most people would say Max, not Mercedes who won the constructor's. People barely remember the constructors, hence why most of the prestige comes from the drivers championship.

Not detracting from your point, but I consider Lewis actually won the driver's title in 2021. He would have done but for Masi's disregard of the rule book, not just regarding the safety car restart at Abu Dhabi, but even more disgracefully, awarding half points for qualifying order at Spa in order to claim a "race" had taken place and avoid refunding spectators. Sadly all water long under the bridge now but it was one of F1's more shameful episodes.

 

[kristiang85]

Not detracting from your point, but I consider Lewis actually won the driver's title in 2021. He would have done but for Masi's disregard of the rule book, not just regarding the safety car restart at Abu Dhabi, but even more disgracefully, awarding half points for qualifying order at Spa in order to claim a "race" had taken place and avoid refunding spectators. Sadly all water long under the bridge now but it was one of F1's more shameful episodes.

The counterpoints are that Hamilton was lucky to finish at Silverstone (saved by the red flag he caused), was lucky to finish second at imola (again saved by a red flag), didn't lose points to Verstappen at Baku because the latter had a late tyre explosion and he himself fluffed up the restart, and didn't get penalised in Bahrain for constant track limits abuses but Verstappen lost his overtake because he went off that once.

Overall Verstappen was the better driver that year (even though he himself was lucky at times, eg not getting harsher penalties in Saudi or indeed the Spa "race", although he might have got more points there had it actually run), and it's a shame his first title was tainted by the shenanigans at the last race.

 

[DelW]

The counterpoints are that Hamilton was lucky to finish at Silverstone (saved by the red flag he caused), was lucky to finish second at imola (again saved by a red flag), didn't lose points to Verstappen at Baku because the latter had a late tyre explosion and he himself fluffed up the restart, and didn't get penalised in Bahrain for constant track limits abuses but Verstappen lost his overtake because he went off that once.

Overall Verstappen was the better driver that year (even though he himself was lucky at times, eg not getting harsher penalties in Saudi or indeed the Spa "race", although he might have got more points there had it actually run), and it's a shame his first title was tainted by the shenanigans at the last race.

I certainly agree with your last point (my bold), though for me, Spa was worse and more cynical than Abu Dhabi. How two laps behind the safety car, with overtaking prohibited, could ever constitute a "race" is beyond me, and I was disgusted at the time, long before its effect on the drivers' championship became evident. I can remember shouting at the TV, which I'm not often reduced to!

As for your counterpoints, I'd agree that once you get into what-ifs, it all becomes rather moot. Now that Max has managed to get past his "you give way or we collide" mindset (mostly anyway) he's undoubtedly become a highly successful driver deserving of his later championships. It's good to see this season becoming much less dominated by him and Red Bull though.

 

[DarloRich]

BBC report that Adrian Newey has singed a 5 year contract with £30m a year with Aston Martin. Whilst rumours have suggested this was the likely outcome of this saga it seems strange to me that Newey has agreed to work for Lawrence Stroll - they are such different characters and Newey has worked best when insulated away from very, erm, "strong willed" team owners/bosses.

Leading Formula 1 designer Adrian Newey will join Aston Martin next year.

An Aston Martin source told BBC Sport that Newey has made a long-term commitment to the team, said to be a five-year contract worth up to a possible £30m a year, including bonuses and add-ons.

Aston Martin: Adrian Newey will join in £30m-a-year deal

Leading F1 designer Adrian Newey will join Aston Martin in a deal worth up to £30m a year.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[gswindale]

Now confirmed in all the mainstream press.

How did Newey get on with Frank, Patrick and Ron - from reading the press release, he seems quite keen to be going back to an "old school" feel of team rather than a manufacturer type team.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2024 ==

Honda and Alpine have both suffered procedural breaches of the cost cap rules for 2023 according to the BBC

Honda and Alpine breach F1 cost-cap rules

Engine manufacturers Honda and Alpine have committed a “procedural breach” of the Formula 1 cost-cap regulations, says governing body the FIA.

www.bbc.co.uk

Engine manufacturers Honda and Alpine have both committed a “procedural breach” of the Formula 1 cost-cap regulations, says governing body the FIA.

Honda is the partner of world champions Red Bull while Alpine is the supplier for the Renault-owned team of the same name.

A statement from the FIA did not detail the specifics of the breaches, which took place in the 2023 season, but said neither had exceeded the spending limit.

A procedural breach typically would revolve around discrepancies in the filing of financial information.

 

[najaB]

Quite an interesting race today. Drama up front with the lead changing back and forth, and penultimate lap drama with Perez and Seinz managing to arrange a huge shunt on a straight. Oh, and McLaren managed to take the lead in the constructor's championship.

 

[gswindale]

Down towards the lower end of the grid and Franco Colapinto finished 8th and scored 4 points - 4 times as many as the driver he replaced managed in 37 races! He also out qualified his team mate, which is something Logan Sargeant failed to do.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have to say I really enjoyed the Channel 4 subtitles referring to him as Colour Printer.

 

[Western Lord]

Quite an interesting race today. Drama up front with the lead changing back and forth, and penultimate lap drama with Perez and Seinz managing to arrange a huge shunt on a straight. Oh, and McLaren managed to take the lead in the constructor's championship.

I think you will find that the lead changed once.

 

[sannox]

A great race yesterday. Really enjoyed how open the races are.

 

[gswindale]

Norris and Verstappen will line up alongside each other on the front row for the Singapore Grand Prix later today.

Verstappen due to undertake some form of community service for use of foul language in the press conference.

 

[66701GBRF]

Verstappen due to undertake some form of community service for use of foul language in the press conference.

Ironic one of the big stories was Max swearing while Sky Sports had accidently used a video containing Ted swearing

 

[PlatformEdgeVT]

Lando Norris wins the Singaporean Grand Prix, and almost had fastest lap until Daniel Ricciardo took it.

 

[SynthD]

By not taking the fastest lap, Norris lost out on his first Grand Chelem, and any possibility of winning the drivers championship this year.