Formula 1

[LOL The Irony]

Nice one George! Can't wait for him to get his first win.

 

[gswindale]

So who's got the coveted Williams seat for next year? - Albon is in the frame, but there seems to be some Red Bull/Merc games going on there?

 

[birchesgreen]

Mercedes might want De Vries in there?

 

[jamieintercity]

Williams have announced that alex albon and Nicolas latifi will drive for the team next year. This leave 2 seats left, 1 for aston Martin (likely to be stroll) and 1 for alfa romeo.

 

[jb108822]

Williams have announced that alex albon and Nicolas latifi will drive for the team next year. This leave 2 seats left, 1 for aston Martin (likely to be stroll) and 1 for alfa romeo.

Haas' seats are technically yet to be confirmed, but it's looking likely to be the same as this year.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Vandoorne would've been a much better option than midbon, frankly.

 

[najaB]

This leave 2 seats left, 1 for aston Martin (likely to be Stroll) and 1 for alfa romeo.

It would be the shock announcement of the year if it wasn't Stroll in that seat.

 

[Domh245]

I dare say that's a popular podium after quite an interesting race!

 

[GB]

Awesome result!

 

[najaB]

I dare say that's a popular podium after quite an interesting race!

I don't think many saw that coming. Well, Hamilton and Verstappen taking each other out, yes, but a Danny Rick shoey?!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

According to the BBC website, Verstappen has been given a 3 place grid penalty at the next race for causing that collision.

 

[D365]

According to the BBC website, Verstappen has been given a 3 place grid penalty at the next race for causing that collision.

Fair and square.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Fair and square.

Yes, most definitely. Hamilton was ahead and had nowhere to go to the right.

 

[Darandio]

Yes, most definitely. Hamilton was ahead and had nowhere to go to the right.

Whilst I don't disagree with the decision to penalise Max, this clearly isn't true Peter.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Whilst I don't disagree with the decision to penalise Max, this clearly isn't true Peter.

I was going by what the stewards said* - and that screenshot is from a very short distance further along past the wall that was the constraint, by which point Hamilton was committed to the line.


*The full document was posted on a Daily Telegraph online report; unfortunately it's behind a paywall and I can't get into it from here. I have a free access from home and I'll try to locate it again tonight.

 

[Class172]

*The full document was posted on a Daily Telegraph online report; unfortunately it's behind a paywall and I can't get into it from here. I have a free access from home and I'll try to locate it again tonight.

David Croft has uploaded the stewards’ decision on twitter.

 

[Darandio]

David Croft has uploaded the stewards’ decision on twitter.

And nothing to do with a wall.

I was going by what the stewards said* - and that screenshot is from a very short distance further along past the wall that was the constraint, by which point Hamilton was committed to the line.


*The full document was posted on a Daily Telegraph online report; unfortunately it's behind a paywall and I can't get into it from here. I have a free access from home and I'll try to locate it again tonight.

I wonder if there is a bit of a mix up here Peter, are you sure you aren't referring to the Silverstone crash? The one yesterday at Monza is at quite an open chicane and there isn't a wall.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I personally thought it was a racing incident and Max should've known better, since he pulled a similar move on Lewis at t4 on lap 1. Checo's penalty was another stupid one (totally not because it was on the FIA's golden boy). Said he didn't have to give the place back but still gave him a penalty.

 

[JamesT]

I personally thought it was a racing incident and Max should've known better, since he pulled a similar move on Lewis at t4 on lap 1. Checo's penalty was another stupid one (totally not because it was on the FIA's golden boy). Said he didn't have to give the place back but still gave him a penalty.

My recollection from watching yesterday was that race control hadn’t responded to Red Bull’s query over whether the place had to go back, rather than saying it was okay. They took the risk that they would get penalised.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

And nothing to do with a wall.



I wonder if there is a bit of a mix up here Peter, are you sure you aren't referring to the Silverstone crash? The one yesterday at Monza is at quite an open chicane and there isn't a wall.

I probably should have typed "track limits" instead...

Someone else appears to have beaten me to it with linking to the document from the stewards as well.

 

[gswindale]

I personally thought it was a racing incident and Max should've known better, since he pulled a similar move on Lewis at t4 on lap 1. Checo's penalty was another stupid one (totally not because it was on the FIA's golden boy). Said he didn't have to give the place back but still gave him a penalty.

FIA insists Red Bull was warned over Perez's Monza F1 penalty

www.motorsport.com

From the FIA perspective, it does sound as if Race Control "suggested" they give the place back, but Red Bull took the option not to.

 

[najaB]

I personally thought it was a racing incident

Of course it was a racing incident - it was an incident in a race! That term gets used a lot where, to my mind, it probably doesn't apply.

As I see it a racing incident is where a driver gets caught out by random chance - e.g. taking what should be the dry line in a wet race but hitting water or getting a wheel on the grass and spinning into someone else. Neither Lewis at Silverstone nor Max on Sunday were racing incidents, in both cases one of them put their car where there wasn't the room for it as a dodgy/cheeky move and it didn't work out.

The same rules apply to F1 as apply to normal drivers: if I put my car where it means you have to avoid an accident then it's my fault if there's a collision. Hence Hamilton and Verstappen both earned their penalties.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Neither Lewis at Silverstone nor Max on Sunday were racing incidents, in both cases one of them put their car where there wasn't the room for it as a dodgy/cheeky move and it didn't work out.

But that leaves us with bland, push to pass overtakes. I want the drivers making cheeky moves because then the sport becomes boring. The drivers should be pushing the limits or otherwise, what's the point?

 

[najaB]

But that leaves us with bland, push to pass overtakes. I want the drivers making cheeky moves because then the sport becomes boring. The drivers should be pushing the limits or otherwise, what's the point?

Fair enough. But expect penalties when they push too hard.

 

[gswindale]

But that leaves us with bland, push to pass overtakes. I want the drivers making cheeky moves because then the sport becomes boring. The drivers should be pushing the limits or otherwise, what's the point?

Indeed - Villeneuve at Portugal 96(?) springs to mind - round the outside of Schumacher on the final corner of the lap - I seem to recall Jock Clear telling Villeneuve that he'd pick him up out of the wall if he tried it, but the move came off.

Cheeky moves need both drivers to be aware and at least one of them to be willing to back off if they see an accident starting to happen.

In the case of Max at Monza, it was blatantly obvious that he wasn't going to make the corner - so that looked more like a move to protect his lead in the championship. If he'd backed out, he'd have been able to get a tow on the way up to the 2nd chicane and would have had a great chance to take the place there - admittedly Lewis may have then had an opportunity to regain it between the Lesmos and Ascari, but that is a chance you take.

 

[O L Leigh]

My feeling is that Max still has some growing up to do. I get the impression that he has to always try to win every race every time and nothing else will do, whereas the key to winning a championship is consistency. Sometimes you have to accept that you can't beat the guy in front of you and that second place is OK because you can always try again at the next race.

Max is an exciting driver to watch, but then so is Lando (Chuck) Norris and you don't see him tangling with opponents as often. Of course the best opportunity to overtake a car leaving the pits is straight away, but he took a big chance and if failed to come off. Maybe he should have taken the escape road, regrouped and then gone again further around the lap. There was plenty of racing time left for him to have passed Lewis.

 

[JamesT]

My feeling is that Max still has some growing up to do. I get the impression that he has to always try to win every race every time and nothing else will do, whereas the key to winning a championship is consistency. Sometimes you have to accept that you can't beat the guy in front of you and that second place is OK because you can always try again at the next race.

Max is an exciting driver to watch, but then so is Lando (Chuck) Norris and you don't see him tangling with opponents as often. Of course the best opportunity to overtake a car leaving the pits is straight away, but he took a big chance and if failed to come off. Maybe he should have taken the escape road, regrouped and then gone again further around the lap. There was plenty of racing time left for him to have passed Lewis.

Though Max was on the hard tyres and Lewis on new mediums. It's not unbelievable that Lewis could have had the pace advantage such that Max's only opportunity was to pass him before he got up to speed.

 

[gswindale]

but even without passing into T1, Max would have had a tow down to the second chicane - I don't believe that the tyres would have made that much difference that quickly. In fact, if he'd taken the place on T1/T2, then Lewis may well have had the tow down to the second chicane and gained the place back there if his tyres were quicker, so you need to think about what might happen next rather than just diving in and hoping for the best.

 

[O L Leigh]

but even without passing into T1, Max would have had a tow down to the second chicane - I don't believe that the tyres would have made that much difference that quickly. In fact, if he'd taken the place on T1/T2, then Lewis may well have had the tow down to the second chicane and gained the place back there if his tyres were quicker, so you need to think about what might happen next rather than just diving in and hoping for the best.

Precisely. There were also a lot of racing laps left and it’s possible that the difference in tyre compounds could have seen the tyre advantage switch later in the race as the tyres degraded. And if that doesn’t work out, then get the best finishing position you can and continue the fight at the next meeting.

 

[Strat-tastic]

Checo's penalty was another stupid one (totally not because it was on the FIA's golden boy). Said he didn't have to give the place back but still gave him a penalty.

I believe Hamilton did exactly the same thing a previous year and also got penalised.
I'm surprised no one remembered, unless it's my memory playing tricks