Former Grand Central HSTs now with EMT

[rustbucket]

I believe it is going for an exam. Don't ask me why at EC though. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O95025/2018/05/03/advanced

Wheel lathe?

 

[nat67]

Wheel lathe?

Well it could be that's where they were based and they could still do the exam there rather than going to Craigentinny.

 

[LowLevel]

2 FGW buffet cars with a 47 and barrier vans ready to leave Ely 90 minutes or so ago - I assume they're headed for Derby.

 

[Mugby]

Why do EMT crews need training on HSTs?

Is the vast experience they already have on HSTs the 'wrong sort of training' ?

 

[Kneedown]

Why do EMT crews need training on HSTs?

Is the vast experience they already have on HSTs the 'wrong sort of training' ?

For Train Managers and Senior Conductors it's a completely different SDO system on the coaches.
For Drivers there are also some significant differences with the power cars that extend further than just a different engine.

 

[nat67]

For Train Managers and Senior Conductors it's a completely different SDO system on the coaches.
For Drivers there are also some significant differences with the power cars that extend further than just a different engine.

And plus there are no TGS's on the GC sets which also makes a slight difference along with the SDO.

 

[Mugby]

Which stations will these sets need to use SDO at? I can only think of Long Eaton?

 

[dp21]

I've seen a few Mk3s in a similar livery to that of the plain white Mk3 in the ex-GC set up at Derby kicking around in the Bombardier A shop in Ilford along with a ROG-looking 47.

Any one know if this is all part of the GC - EMT transfer of HSTs?

 

[Domh245]

I've seen a few Mk3s in a similar livery to that of the plain white Mk3 in the ex-GC set up at Derby kicking around in the Bombardier A shop in Ilford along with a ROG-looking 47.

Any one know if this is all part of the GC - EMT transfer of HSTs?

Are those not AGA?

 

[dp21]

Are those not AGA?

Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. They're on C4. I had no idea. Ignore me please.

 

[Royston Vasey]

2 FGW buffet cars with a 47 and barrier vans ready to leave Ely 90 minutes or so ago - I assume they're headed for Derby.

Arrived as 5L46 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O95180/2018/05/04/advanced
Was supposed to depart as 5M46 but didn't http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O95197/2018/05/04/advanced

 

[43096]

For Drivers there are also some significant differences with the power cars that extend further than just a different engine.

Would you care to expand on what those differences are? Other than engine type and the presence of buffers, I cannot think of any other significant differences.

 

[43055]

Would you care to expand on what those differences are? Other than engine type and the presence of buffers, I cannot think of any other significant differences.

In think he cab desk is very slightly different in that there is an extra button or two and that is about it/a button might be in a different place. Nothing major.

 

[43096]

In think he cab desk is very slightly different in that there is an extra button or two and that is about it/a button might be in a different place. Nothing major.

Thanks. So not the "significant differences" that "Kneedown" stated, then.

 

[Royston Vasey]

In think he cab desk is very slightly different in that there is an extra button or two and that is about it/a button might be in a different place. Nothing major.

I recall when then were refurbished that they were actually somewhat different mechanically or electrically and had some different and more experimental/advanced internals (partly leading to the 43/4 designation).

I can't now for the life of me find a reference to such!

 

[Domh245]

Thanks. So not the "significant differences" that "Kneedown" stated, then.

Comparing videos on youtube, I'd say that the desk layout aren't exactly similar. TPWS panel, DRA, & AWS reset buttons are all in different locations, and there are some things present in the GC cab that aren't present in the EMT cab. I'm not even going to try and suggest what differences there are in terms of switches and buttons because I can't read it well enough in the videos but there will be some

Grand Central vs EMT

And that is just the cab layout! There will be differences in terms of equipment fitted beyond the cab. Either way, I'd be inclined to trust the EMT driver instructor over the 18 year old (no offence intended)

 

[Royston Vasey]

Thanks. So not the "significant differences" that "Kneedown" stated, then.

Drivers don't just press stop and go though do they. When something goes wrong they need to understand something about nuts and bolts, and any change in functionality needs to be understood and trained on

 

[Royston Vasey]

Comparing videos on youtube, I'd say that the desk layout aren't exactly similar. TPWS panel, DRA, & AWS reset buttons are all in different locations, and there are some things present in the GC cab that aren't present in the EMT cab. I'm not even going to try and suggest what differences there are in terms of switches and buttons because I can't read it well enough in the videos but there will be some

Grand Central vs EMT

And that is just the cab layout! There will be differences in terms of equipment fitted beyond the cab. Either way, I'd be inclined to trust the EMT driver instructor over the 18 year old (no offence intended)

This!

 

[43096]

Drivers don't just press stop and go though do they. When something goes wrong they need to understand something about nuts and bolts, and any change in functionality needs to be understood and trained on

Most TOCs now get drivers to "phone a friend" (aka maintenance control) when they get technical issues, who will talk them through what they need to do. The old days of drivers fixing stuff are seemingly endangered - the old hands still know how to fix faults, but the new ones are not usually trained to do so.

In any case, other than the engine type (and presence of buffers) there are not huge differences between EMT power cars and the former GC cars, as noted above. Other than that, both have Brush cooler groups and both have the upgraded Brush electronics. Cab layout has minor differences.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Which stations will these sets need to use SDO at? I can only think of Long Eaton?

All of them, that's how the SDO works. Drivers are getting a brief on them, and Train Managers are getting a number of days traction conversion because of the SDO system which is the only way to operate the doors.

 

[43055]

Comparing videos on youtube, I'd say that the desk layout aren't exactly similar. TPWS panel, DRA, & AWS reset buttons are all in different locations, and there are some things present in the GC cab that aren't present in the EMT cab. I'm not even going to try and suggest what differences there are in terms of switches and buttons because I can't read it well enough in the videos but there will be some

Grand Central vs EMT

And that is just the cab layout! There will be differences in terms of equipment fitted beyond the cab. Either way, I'd be inclined to trust the EMT driver instructor over the 18 year old (no offence intended)

Well I didn't know there was that much of a change. I was going off my dad's knowledge for that as I haven't seen a GC cab desk and I have been in numerous EMT cabs.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Most TOCs now get drivers to "phone a friend" (aka maintenance control) when they get technical issues, who will talk them through what they need to do. The old days of drivers fixing stuff are seemingly endangered - the old hands still know how to fix faults, but the new ones are not usually trained to do so.

In any case, other than the engine type (and presence of buffers) there are not huge differences between EMT power cars and the former GC cars, as noted above. Other than that, both have Brush cooler groups and both have the upgraded Brush electronics. Cab layout has minor differences.

Any difference can be significant. You don't want to be fumbling wondering where the wiper switch is when you suddenly encounter pouring rain in the dark. Or where the DRA is in the dark when you get to a station against a signal at danger.

The characteristics of the engine are different. If the driver instructor thinks that retraining is required, I would trust their judgement.

 

[Kneedown]

Thanks. So not the "significant differences" that "Kneedown" stated, then.

Ask and ye shall be given. He we go then...

Brake test switch relocated,
Headlight mimic panel fitted,
New FFCCTV requiring Driver action to capture footage,
Coolant gauge relocated to cab with additional low coolant warning for rear power car,
Back up wheelslip warning light fitted,
AWS/TPWS panel relocated to more central position,
Position and type of various switches and button relocated, eg wiper and wash, Driver to Guard call, Engine Stop and Start buttons. Different OTDR equipment.
Moving into the clean air compartment, new style flag relays, additional switches on the control cubicle, two additional fuses in the fuse compartment, additional circuit breakers.
MTU engine requiring coolant to be at a minimum 40°C before starting. Engine pre heat unit and controls fitted to ensure this. Associated new engine control unit with different fault indications and resets.

All this is off the top of my head. Plenty more contained within the six page booklet we have been given to digest.

 

[mikestone1952]

The lunch time ECS from Nottingham to Etches Park has now appeared in RTT as has the one back to form the 19.45 to St. Pancras.
It seems a pity that it couldn't have a fill in turn to release a dmu for East Midlands evening peak work.

 

[Goldie]

One of the EMT liveried power cars was basking in the sun outside Craigentinny yesterday (along with two in Scotrail livery and a take of FGW liveried Mk3s).

 

[43055]

43467 and 43468 are coming home from there small holiday in Scotland tomorrow.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K96120/2018/05/17/advanced

 

[nat67]

43423 was out of the shed at Etches park on Monday with its 'Valenta' nameplate and 40 years plate on. But I couldn't ID the number assuming it was still 43423.

 

[_toommm_]

43467 and 43468 are coming home from there small holiday in Scotland tomorrow.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K96120/2018/05/17/advanced

Seems like they decided to extend their holiday a tad longer...

 

[cactustwirly]

They'd better come back soon, they are required from Monday!

 

[43055]

43423 was out of the shed at Etches park on Monday with its 'Valenta' nameplate and 40 years plate on. But I couldn't ID the number assuming it was still 43423.

Yeah they are all still the same numbers.

Seems like they decided to extend their holiday a tad longer...

They'd better come back soon, they are required from Monday!

It does as it appears they have stopped off at NL on the way back (possibly yo collect some coaches) and head to Derby just gone midnight tonight arriving around 3am.