For the drivers / People in the know (Class 158)

[driver9000]

oT but is there a difference with class 153/55s? Just wondered as have noticed these units when iv used them sometimes go a long way with motors idle.

Also, why is going streight onto almost full power frouned upon? Fuel? Cumfort? Just interested

It depends on the route, sometimes you can coast for quite some distance and not lose speed.

Opening up straight to full power is frowned upon as it increases fuel consumption, increases engine and transmission wear, makes a lot of noise which intrudes to the saloon. It's generally perceived as a poor driving technique but different situations call for different techniques, I don't open up to full power straight away but starting away on a rising gradient needs a higher starting notch (say 3,4 or 5) with full being reached quite quickly and there are some locations on a falling gradient where I can simply release the brake and let gravity do the work to get the train rolling.

 

[Blindtraveler]

thanks

 

[Geeves]

It really varies from set to set, some of them are terrible and will do absolutely nothing below notch 5.
Officially, ATW like drivers to:
Buzz buzz from the guard,
Notch one then notch 2
Brake release,
Notch 3,
Buzz buzz back to the guard,
Notch 4 once its rolling,
Notch 5 at 5mph
Notch 6 at 10mph
Notch 7 at 15mph.

This might be a silly question, but should the brakes not be fully released before taking power?

Also in relation to the Buzz buzz where the platform staff give the RA to the driver, the guards are not required to signal that station work is complete.

 

[driver9000]

Holding the brake in step 1 prevents the train rolling back while the engine powers up. This is why power can be taken in step 1 and trains with a single handle have a hold over button. Modern EP brakes release very quickly in general. Loco hauled trains have a different technique though.

 

[strange6]

Holding the brake in step 1 prevents the train rolling back while the engine powers up. This is why power can be taken in step 1 and trains with a single handle have a hold over button. Modern EP brakes release very quickly in general. Loco hauled trains have a different technique though.

They have dynamic braking as well as mechanical braking don't they?

 

[driver9000]

Not all stock has dynamic brakes. Everything I drive has EP tread or disc brakes only.

 

[strange6]

Not all stock has dynamic brakes. Everything I drive has EP tread or disc brakes only.

No, I meant locomotive hauled trains

 

[driver9000]

Not all locomotives have dynamic/rheo brakes. AC locomotives such as 86,87,90 and 91 had rheostatic brakes as well as conventional air brakes. Dynamic/Rheo braking doesn't opeeate below a certain speed either.

 

[Rugd1022]

Holding the brake in step 1 prevents the train rolling back while the engine powers up. This is why power can be taken in step 1 and trains with a single handle have a hold over button. Modern EP brakes release very quickly in general. Loco hauled trains have a different technique though.

Standard practice for us freight drivers is torelease the auto brake and notch up simultaneously so as not to roll back. There are certain locations where we get stopped regularly where if you do roll back before applying power you can have a 'rear end' SPAD in a Goods Loop if you have a very long train in tow. Departing from Bardon Hill level crossing on the Leicester - Burton line, we usually have to be in at least notch 6 or 7 before releasing the straight air brake as the train sits in a dip, if you don't catch it just right you roll back a few feet because of the compressed wagon buffers and the speed sensor will dump the brake if you've not got it in foward gear! As soon as you're on the move it's notch 8 or bust, just to get up Bagworth incline.

I take my hat off to you passenger man though, you need a featherlite touch to get it right every time and not upset your punters

 

[strange6]

Standard practice for us freight drivers is torelease the auto brake and notch up simultaneously so as not to roll back. There are certain locations where we get stopped regularly where if you do roll back before applying power you can have a 'rear end' SPAD in a Goods Loop if you have a very long train in tow. Departing from Bardon Hill level crossing on the Leicester - Burton line, we usually have to be in at least notch 6 or 7 before releasing the straight air brake as the train sits in a dip, if you don't catch it just right you roll back a few feet because of the compressed wagon buffers and the speed sensor will dump the brake if you've not got it in foward gear! As soon as you're on the move it's notch 8 or bust, just to get up Bagworth incline.

WOW! That takes some skill and judgement to pass off cleanly! You're making me want to work as a freight driver you know!

 

[BestWestern]

The Guard rings 2 on the bell/buzzer to tell the Driver that station duties are complete and the train is ready to depart. It is up to the Driver to make a final check of the signal (if there is one) to ensure it is showing a proceed aspect before moving the train.

Don't go saying that in front of a Guards' Comp Manager; they'd have kittens lol!

 

[driver9000]

[/B]

Don't go saying that in front of a Guards' Comp Manager; they'd have kittens lol!

Haha! Naturally the Guard checks it too

 

[Geeves]

Cheers for all the comprehensive replies folks, you learn something everyday!

 

[Blindtraveler]

agreed. One of the most interesting
threads rite now.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Always forget about them

I buzz back once the engines power as it proves to me that I have power, nothing worse than buzzing back then getting no reponse from the train.

No probs,they are so similar to 158's anyway...I had a one day conversion course or was it just a slip of paper when I "learned" the 158's.It's never been a problem though.So few differences.

Wasn't a buzzer incorporated into the Loudaphone unit?

Yes,and I used it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Holding the brake in step 1 prevents the train rolling back while the engine powers up. This is why power can be taken in step 1 and trains with a single handle have a hold over button. Modern EP brakes release very quickly in general. Loco hauled trains have a different technique though.

458's have a hill start button of which I find very useful

 

[hougtimo]

What about braking also? Do drivers routinely use all 3 notches?

 

[Pacerpilot]

What about braking also? Do drivers routinely use all 3 notches?

Not for me, Step 1 everywhere (Low position in 175s) Gives me two more brake steps up my sleeve should things go awry.

 

[T163R]

Not for me, Step 1 everywhere (Low position in 175s) Gives me two more brake steps up my sleeve should things go awry.

OMG you must approach a station really slowly, 'cause I suppose you break quite early !

Does OpenBVE driving style count in this topic ?

 

[driver9000]

What about braking also? Do drivers routinely use all 3 notches?

For driving a 158 the braking is based on a step 2 initial applications (brakes have steps ) and then as the Driver sees fit depending on their company braking regulations. Driving a tread braked train the braking for me is based on a step 1 initial application. When I was a trainee we were taught to use steps 1 and also 2 if needed but to try and keep step 3/full service 'up your sleeve' just in case. With a fully variable brake (ie stepless) I place the handle to initial and then push it up to the pressure I want in the cylinders. Driving in poor rail adhesion times alters these and the principle of 'earlier and lighter' comes into play to reduce the chances of wheel slide and to give yourself more room to bring the train down should it slide, although with sander fitted stock we place the brake to step 2 or it's equivalent pressure and allow the WSP to work dropping sand and blowing the brake out.

 

[notadriver]

Depends on the type of unit. In 150s step 1 is very good and the train will jerk to a stop. In others more is needed.

 

[driver9000]

I always release the brake fully just before it stops and then catch it again to give a smooth stop - don't want to spill my tea!

 

[strange6]

Not for me, Step 1 everywhere (Low position in 175s) Gives me two more brake steps up my sleeve should things go awry.

Really? You must break pretty early and slowly. Would love to travel on your train to experience that. You can feel the increase or decrease in inertia within the saloon when the driver uses different brake steps and i would say 90 percent use steps 1 and 2 based on this
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I always release the brake fully just before it stops and then catch it again to give a smooth stop - don't want to spill my tea!

Very similar to when I drive a minibus with people in it

 

[driver9000]

I always try to keep my tread braking to step 1 - it's the way I was taught - but I'm not shy about using step 2 and Full service should I need it. My braking regulations permit the full use of the brake as long as we are driving with due care to the brake force, weather, railhead, experience etc.

 

[strange6]

I always try to keep my tread braking to step 1 - it's the way I was taught - but I'm not shy about using step 2 and Full service should I need it. My braking regulations permit the full use of the brake as long as we are driving with due care to the brake force, weather, railhead, experience etc.

On the trains I travel on (Probably Wallgate and Victoria drivers in the main) the vast majority use steps 1 and 2 because you can feel the inertial pull increase during braking for stations. Very rare do I feel full service braking

 

[T163R]

Really? You must break pretty early and slowly.

Look at post #48

 

[Juniper Driver]

Same as Driver9000 post 49 applies to 159's.

The brakes on 159's are very good though.On 455's step 3 is probably needed more often.

 

[RPM]

Mostly use step 1 in a 165 but use a lot more step 2 in a 168 because their step 1 is much lighter.

 

[hougtimo]

Ok, thanks for the great replies here

Also, what sorts of speed do drivers tend to approach stations at, in say, sprinter \ dmus?

 

[Kneedown]

Ok, thanks for the great replies here

Also, what sorts of speed do drivers tend to approach stations at, in say, sprinter \ dmus?

Around 15-20mph at the platform end, although this depends on the length of the platform and railhead conditions.
10mph reducing to 5mph in dead end or occupied platforms.

 

[strange6]

For all of you who are familiar with the Deansgate to Salford Crescent section, I'm sometimes amazed at how fast some Northern drivers approach Salford Crescent coming from Deansgate. It may very well be quite deceptive from within the saloon but they don't half seem to approach the station at a fair old steam of knots.