For the drivers / People in the know (Class 158)

[hougtimo]

Hello peoples.

I'm quite interested in various driving techniques of the class 158 series. In particular I'm interested to know what 'notch' is required for an average, flat, start. I know notch 3 is used to get going, but once it's rolling is it notched straight up to 7? How does it work?!

Many thanks.

 

[RPM]

I've never driven a 158 so I can't answer your direct query. However I can tell you the technique with a 165 which I don't imagine is vastly different. You really need to start off in notch 4. I usually go into notch 5 as soon as the train starts to move, into notch 6 at just over 5 mph and into notch 7 somewhere between 10 and 15 mph.

 

[hougtimo]

I've never driven a 158 so I can't answer your direct query. However I can tell you the technique with a 165 which I don't imagine is vastly different. You really need to start off in notch 4. I usually go into notch 5 as soon as the train starts to move, into notch 6 at just over 5 mph and into notch 7 somewhere between 10 and 15 mph.

Thanks for your reply

So the top notch it routinely used then? I ask because I was on a 158 last weekend and setting off from one station I'm sure the trains engines were revving higher than the usual... I thought maybe notch6 was used and in this instance the driver was using notch 7?

 

[Juniper Driver]

When I am leaving Waterloo I generally start off in notch 2(or 4 at the most)...think I used to whack it open before which probably not such a good idea.Im talking about 159's mainly although I do get on the odd 158.Starting off from a station I generally go to 7 depending on the conditions.(Signal status/slipping etc.)

 

[Pacerpilot]

It really varies from set to set, some of them are terrible and will do absolutely nothing below notch 5.
Officially, ATW like drivers to:
Buzz buzz from the guard,
Notch one then notch 2
Brake release,
Notch 3,
Buzz buzz back to the guard,
Notch 4 once its rolling,
Notch 5 at 5mph
Notch 6 at 10mph
Notch 7 at 15mph.

 

[driver9000]

It really varies from set to set, some of them are terrible and will do absolutely nothing below notch 5.
Officially, ATW like drivers to:
Buzz buzz from the guard,
Notch one then notch 2
Brake release,
Notch 3,
Buzz buzz back to the guard,
Notch 4 once its rolling,
Notch 5 at 5mph
Notch 6 at 10mph
Notch 7 at 15mph.

You have just described more or less my notching technique. I buzz back once the engines power but before it begins to roll. Naturally it varies depending the location and the unit I'm driving but the above is my 'natural' style, similarly when shutting off I like to gradually reduce power leaving it in 1 for a few seconds before idling as it makes it a bit smoother for the passengers.

 

[strange6]

You have just described more or less my notching technique. I buzz back once the engines power but before it begins to roll. Naturally it varies depending the location and the unit I'm driving but the above is my 'natural' style, similarly when shutting off I like to gradually reduce power leaving it in 1 for a few seconds before idling as it makes it a bit smoother for the passengers.

Does that apply to all traction that you sign when you power down (apart from the 180's)? I would imagine that you need to be a bit different with the 14X's considering they have less horsepower and torque.

 

[hougtimo]

It really varies from set to set, some of them are terrible and will do absolutely nothing below notch 5.
Officially, ATW like drivers to:
Buzz buzz from the guard,
Notch one then notch 2
Brake release,
Notch 3,
Buzz buzz back to the guard,
Notch 4 once its rolling,
Notch 5 at 5mph
Notch 6 at 10mph
Notch 7 at 15mph.

Another noob question, but is there a delay from putting to power to 1/2 and the engine note changing? I ask because on all the train journeys I've been on (all with NR) the driver buzzbuzz's back before the revs begin to rise. And usually the revs rise to a given point and don't change at all untill the gear change at around 40-45mph.

 

[notadriver]

Yes there's a delay. Officially you should buzz back before you take power (move the power controller) but it seems common practice to take power and then buzz back to save time.

 

[T163R]

Sorry but...why does the driver need to buzz back ?

 

[HugePilchard]

It's to confirm that they've understood the guard's buzz.

Another example of this might be on trains where the driver closes the doors. The guard will buzz 1-2 (beep beepbeep) to ask for the doors to be closed, and the driver will buzz 1-2 back to confirm.

 

[scotsman]

Sorry but...why does the driver need to buzz back ?

To confirm he has received the instruction. It's standard practice in the UK, all information is repeated back to confirm that there's been no confusion.

 

[hougtimo]

Is it possible that some drivers simply notch straight up to 6/7 and leave it there?

 

[driver9000]

Does that apply to all traction that you sign when you power down (apart from the 180's)? I would imagine that you need to be a bit different with the 14X's considering they have less horsepower and torque.

Yes, I use it for all traction as it prevents 'chopping' and the resulting jerk as power is cut.

There is nothing to prevent the Driver opening up straight full power when working Pacers, Sprinters and 158s.

 

[HugePilchard]

There is nothing to prevent the Driver opening up straight full power when working Pacers, Sprinters and 158s.

Is that why Pacers make such an almighty racket when they're pulling away?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Yes, I use it for all traction as it prevents 'chopping' and the resulting jerk as power is cut.

There is nothing to prevent the Driver opening up straight full power when working Pacers, Sprinters and 158s.

As well as 159's.

 

[RPM]

Yes there's a delay. Officially you should buzz back before you take power (move the power controller) but it seems common practice to take power and then buzz back to save time.

I do this on 168s because they have a long delay between taking power and actually powering up but on a 165 I buzz back first and then take power because they power up instantly.

 

[driver9000]

As well as 159's.

Always forget about them

I buzz back once the engines power as it proves to me that I have power, nothing worse than buzzing back then getting no reponse from the train.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Is it possible that some drivers simply notch straight up to 6/7 and leave it there?

Very much so.

 

[tom1649]

To confirm he has received the instruction. It's standard practice in the UK, all information is repeated back to confirm that there's been no confusion.

Slightly off topic, but in the last years of Class 101s in Manchester a lot of drivers never buzzed back to the guard. They always did on more modern units though. Why was this?

 

[driver9000]

I don't think there was a bell/buzzer in the cab for the Driver to use for repeating the bell code recieved. Might be wrong though....

 

[Hydro]

Same for the slammers, I think SWT retrofitted a buzzer to give two back when the bell went, but the Connex SE/SET slammers certainly didn't bell back.

 

[tom1649]

Thanks for the explanation. I guess it's possible that one or two units had a buzzer in the cab, or I might just be imagining that.

 

[driver9000]

Wasn't a buzzer incorporated into the Loudaphone unit?

 

[T163R]

And do guards buzz to say the train can depart ?

 

[driver9000]

The Guard rings 2 on the bell/buzzer to tell the Driver that station duties are complete and the train is ready to depart. It is up to the Driver to make a final check of the signal (if there is one) to ensure it is showing a proceed aspect before moving the train.

 

[strange6]

Always forget about them

I buzz back once the engines power as it proves to me that I have power, nothing worse than buzzing back then getting no reponse from the train.

I always wondered why you buzzed after you started to move. I always thought how stupid it was telling the guard that you're ready to depart after you've started moving

 

[Kneedown]

Very much so.

The practice is frowned upon though.
If it comes to light during an assessment ride or OTMR download that a Driver is opening right up to power without progressing through the notches, then the Driver Manager will be having words!
It is also seen as good practice when shutting off power to pause for a second or two in notch one to give the engines time to run down, before shutting off power completely.

 

[Blindtraveler]

oT but is there a difference with class 153/55s? Just wondered as have noticed these units when iv used them sometimes go a long way with motors idle.

Also, why is going streight onto almost full power frouned upon? Fuel? Cumfort? Just interested

 

[western Champion]

I don't think there was a bell/buzzer in the cab for the Driver to use for repeating the bell code recieved. Might be wrong though....

The bell/buzzer in the cab of DMU's was a little black button about six or seven mm high. The bell/buzzer codes were usually on a black sticker in white print to the drivers left by the air/axle lights. Drivers quickly learnt the codes off by heart as there was precious little else to occupy the mind on endless mind numbing trips on the cross city from Lichfield to Redditch.

It's true to say in those days I never repeated the buzz codes from the guard. Couldn't be bothered ! and the driver management in those days weren't bothered. It's a different story today with Pendos and Voyagers, everything is available via a download so it's done properly as a matter of routine.