Football

[SS4]

The latest manager casualty is at The Hawthorns as Steve Clarke is sacked
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25385000

Steve Clarke has been sacked as head coach of West Bromwich Albion following a fourth straight Premier League loss.

 

[GWRtom]

Dorchester 2 Concord rangers 2


Concord really are a scummy little classless club.
Classless chairman as well.

Hope they go down.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Dorchester 2 Concord Rangers 2

Concord really are a scummy little classless club. Classless chairman as well. Hope they go down.

I see that the bottom five teams in your division all are on 15 points, with goal differences ranging from -7 to -21. I am surprised to find that Concord Rangers FC play in a higher standard of league than Canvey Island FC.

One consolation I can offer you as a supporter of Hyde, is that although both our two teams occupy the bottom place in our respective leagues, Dorchester have FIVE times more league points than Hyde...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Arsenal are the most frustrating to team to follow, just when you think they are in the process of doing something good they lose to a Mr Joe Average team and have us fans worrying again about finishing in the top 4 again.

Have you any new thoughts after the Arsenal match yesterday against Manchester City ?

 

[Butts]

The latest manager casualty is at The Hawthorns as Steve Clarke is sacked
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25385000

:roll:


Well insanity strikes again :roll:

Watching MOD .....City have got some firepower upfront with goals flying in from everywhere...and this was Arsenal they were playing !!

After todays Spurs v Liverpool "Buttstradamus" will be able to name this seasons Premier League Champions - did City have any British players in their team ? - ah Milner 1

 

[Chapeltom]

3 points at Watford yesterday, 6 points from Leicester/Forest at home and Watford away, some feared we'd struggle to get a point from those games.

The revival continues for the Owls.

 

[SS4]

did City have any British players in their team ?

Crouch is definitely British and I believe Shawcross and Ireland are British too . A fair few Englishmen in the Potteries
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was reading this article from the BBC about Clarke's sacking and it dares mention Alex McLeish . Possibly the only thing Villa and Blues fan agree on is that he sucks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And just in case it wasn't clear where the BBC's footballing bias lies here is an extract from the match preview from Villa Park (Villa in blue, Man Utd in red) - written by the MOTD commentator!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25287546

Team News

Manchester United forward Robin van Persie has been ruled out for a month with a thigh injury.

Marouane Fellaini and Michael Carrick have back and Achilles injuries respectively and are unavailable.

Aston Villa midfielder Fabian Delph serves a one-match ban for accumulating five bookings this season.

Ron Vlaar is likely to miss out again with a calf injury, but Libor Kozak and Antonio Luna could be fit to return.

Match Preview

Victory over Shakhtar Donetsk was neither particularly convincing nor particularly comforting for the Red Devils, so the warm glow of contentment that usually embraces a Manchester United team as their bus is driven through the ornate gates of Villa Park will be more than welcome.

Yes, West Brom, Everton and Newcastle have all ended long sequences without success at Old Trafford this season, but Aston Villa's home record against Manchester United is surely one of the most miserable, barren, fruitless, fallow and literally almost pointless sequences in football.
Villa's last home win over United came a little over 14 years ago in a League Cup tie, their last league win was more than 18 years ago, after which Alan Hansen proclaimed that United would "win nothing with kids."

That's so long ago that those United kids of 1995 could now represent the Salford Dad's Club; with creaky knees, grey hair and mostly retired, but still having to argue with their cantankerous old Irish pal over who did what and when back in the day. As Morrissey nearly said: "There is a fight that never goes out."

At least Villa did make a better job of it last season, taking a 2-0 lead before succumbing to the inevitable.

Paul Lambert's side were quietly putting together a handy little run before last Sunday's loss at Fulham, which was their first defeat in six, and they have managed consecutive clean sheets at Villa Park for the first time in 12 months.

Scoring goals continues to be a problem and it goes without saying that Christian Benteke's second season is proving to be a major disappointment so far.

The Belgian has gone more than 10 and a half hours without a goal, but is still Villa's top scorer with four. That alone speaks volumes.

Lawro's Prediction
"I think we will see steady improvement from United over the next few weeks but that does not change the fact they need to buy some new players.

"But needing players in January and being able to get the players you ones you want are completely different things."

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can see why Clarke has gone - woeful form in 2013 (34 games, 31 points: basically enough to be relegated if seasons were done per calendar year) and now sailing very close to the bottom three. With Fulham and Palace both with new managers and beginning to show signs of potential, WBA could very easily have slipped into that bottom three, and once you're there it's very had to leave. AT least now, like with Fulham, the new boss can assess the situation in preparation for the transfer window. I suggest what has come back to bite Steve Clarke on the a*se is how much he over-achieved with the Baggies at the start of last season, ironically that's probably also what kept them up too. I have no doubts that he'll have no trouble finding employment elsewhere, but West Brom are certainly in a very worrying position at the moment.

 

[Butts]

Crouch is definitely British and I believe Shawcross and Ireland are British too . A fair few Englishmen in the Potteries
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was reading this article from the BBC about Clarke's sacking and it dares mention Alex McLeish . Possibly the only thing Villa and Blues fan agree on is that he sucks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And just in case it wasn't clear where the BBC's footballing bias lies here is an extract from the match preview from Villa Park (Villa in blue, Man Utd in red) - written by the MOTD commentator!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25287546

Alex McLeish - well why not - he's won more trophies than a certain Manchester United manager who shall remain nameless and potless for a while yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can see why Clarke has gone - woeful form in 2013 (34 games, 31 points: basically enough to be relegated if seasons were done per calendar year) and now sailing very close to the bottom three. With Fulham and Palace both with new managers and beginning to show signs of potential, WBA could very easily have slipped into that bottom three, and once you're there it's very had to leave. AT least now, like with Fulham, the new boss can assess the situation in preparation for the transfer window. I suggest what has come back to bite Steve Clarke on the a*se is how much he over-achieved with the Baggies at the start of last season, ironically that's probably also what kept them up too. I have no doubts that he'll have no trouble finding employment elsewhere, but West Brom are certainly in a very worrying position at the moment.

Neil Warnock mentioned in his column in The Independent yesterday he couldn't understand why Managers kept coming back for more other than it was in the blood or words to that effect.

Hmmmm..... HALF A MILLION POUNDS TO OWEN COYLE FOR FAILURE

Any other walk of life there would be an outcry ....

I wonder how much Clarke will be trousering on his way out of the door ? Fat Cat's - Tigers at least !!

 

[SS4]

Neil Warnock mentioned in his column in The Independent yesterday he couldn't understand why Managers kept coming back for more other than it was in the blood or words to that effect.

Hmmmm..... HALF A MILLION POUNDS TO OWEN COYLE FOR FAILURE

Any other walk of life there would be an outcry ....

I wonder how much Clarke will be trousering on his way out of the door ? Fat Cat's - Tigers at least !!

Ah but define failure. Actually, if it's not in the contract of employment then don't bother because it's unimportant. Clarke is probably under contract until at least the end of this season and so is entitled to his wage until then.

edit: Don't forget that a manager is perpetually in the public eye and has no privacy outside his home and he is near-constantly abused. He essentially has to put his life on hold whilst he's in management - there is no going down the pub and getting bladdered with the lads

 

[richw]

Clarke has been placed on gardening leave, he has not been sacked is worth considering.
His contract is until the end of the season.
Gardening leave apparently means still paid your salary but told to stay away from work. It probably wont make any difference financially, however it means if another club wants him in the mean time they will have to seek permission and potentially compensation from West Brom, as he is still classed as employed by them.

 

[Chapeltom]

Crackers league, Spurs battered 5-0 at WHL by Liverpool.

 

[richw]

Crackers league, Spurs battered 5-0 at WHL by Liverpool.

As a Liverpool fan I didn't expect that, but not complaining. I believe only Man City have scored more now. Arsenal are next 6 goals less scored than Liverpool.

 

[Butts]

Crackers league, Spurs battered 5-0 at WHL by Liverpool.

Cheers- at work - I knew I shouldn't have come to this thread prior to MOD - however I am now in position to declare (as promised earlier) that this years Premier League Champions will be.........

Liverpool 5-0 without Stevie G - did Suarez score ?

To qualify the above this requires the signing of Torres back in January (on the cheap)

In the event of that not happening Manchester City will lift the title.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ah but define failure. Actually, if it's not in the contract of employment then don't bother because it's unimportant. Clarke is probably under contract until at least the end of this season and so is entitled to his wage until then.

edit: Don't forget that a manager is perpetually in the public eye and has no privacy outside his home and he is near-constantly abused. He essentially has to put his life on hold whilst he's in management - there is no going down the pub and getting bladdered with the lads

I could live with that for A MILLION POUNDS PER YEAR PLUS

 

[richw]

Cheers- at work - I knew I shouldn't have come to this thread prior to MOD - however I am now in position to declare (as promised earlier) that this years Premier League Champions will be.........

Liverpool 5-0 without Stevie G - did Suarez score ?

To qualify the above this requires the signing of Torres back in January (on the cheap)

In the event of that not happening Manchester City will lift the title.

I will comment on this bold part on 30th December, once we've been away to Chelsea and Man City in 2 of our next 3 games,

The obvious scored twice, the other 3 goals were less obvious and surprising goal scorers, which I will leave to match of the day for you.

 

[SS4]

I could live with that for A MILLION POUNDS PER YEAR PLUS

That's your decision to make (also what's with the bold and caps?) but what about my first paragraph?

 

[Butts]

That's your decision to make (also what's with the bold and caps?) but what about my first paragraph?

To define failure in this matter would be perceived or real lack of success in the job compared to the aspirations of the employer. As you say they should be paid their contractual entitlement and I don't have a problem with that.

I assume you would have no problem with the same criteria being applied to other professions and not kick up a fuss about it if other individuals were treated in the same manner if they were "paid off".

With regard to the sums involved lower wages for managers and players would allow clubs to reduce prices paid by fans in these hard times. This does not seem to have happened.

Why should Football Managers and Players not have "to do their bit"

ps Did your mob have to let the side down with a 3-0 trouncing at home to United

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The trouble with reducing manager and in particular player's wages is that quite soon a lot of foreign clubs will come a calling offering a huge wage increase and many will up sticks and move. That in turn reduces the quality of the league, the standards on show and soon interest lessens so a lot of people would end up worse off, but in a different sense.

 

[SS4]

To define failure in this matter would be perceived or real lack of success in the job compared to the aspirations of the employer. As you say they should be paid their contractual entitlement and I don't have a problem with that.

A fair definition but a contractual entitlement goes further than simply pay

I assume you would have no problem with the same criteria being applied to other professions and not kick up a fuss about it if other individuals were treated in the same manner if they were "paid off".

I would be annoyed but if an employee has not breached their contract they should be bought out of it. The issue here is with breaching the contract, does a performance clause count and is it a hard one (ie: earn at least 40 points per season) or a soft one as you defined above. In Clarke's case it is moot as he is on gardening leave. It's largely irrelevant in the real world I suspect.

With regard to the sums involved lower wages for managers and players would allow clubs to reduce prices paid by fans in these hard times. This does not seem to have happened.

Why should Football Managers and Players not have "to do their bit"

You and I both know that would never happen even if the wage bill were £0. I'd like to see some of the money go to paying ground staff properly though

ps Did your mob have to let the side down with a 3-0 trouncing at home to United

But we don't play the Blades until January . We've always been poor against Manchester United at home though, next game is the important one.

 

[Butts]

I will comment on this bold part on 30th December, once we've been away to Chelsea and Man City in 2 of our next 3 games,

The obvious scored twice, the other 3 goals were less obvious and surprising goal scorers, which I will leave to match of the day for you.

Having watched Match of the Day , the in depth strength is not there to sustain it to the finishing line for Liverpool , unfortunately.

If they are there or thereabouts come January they need to buy a couple of quality players.

Compared to City (not Stoke) the quality is not in abundance. :cry:

 

[Johnuk123]

AVB sacked - 7th in the greed league obviously not good enough.

 

[Oswyntail]

AVB sacked - 7th in the greed league obviously not good enough.

Panic is setting in earlier each season.:roll:. Chairmen who have built their business plan on being in the CL, or, at the very least EL, should realise that there are two parts to a league: the matches that involve your team, that you hope to win, but so do the opposition; and those that don't involve your team, which you cannot affect, but are the vast majority. If, after a third of the season, things are so off your business plan that you have to sack the manager, you should also be looking at the stability of your plan. Well Chaired clubs do not sack managers.
Perhaps there should be a December transfer window for managers, so that new ones can buy players in January. Does changing the manager ever make a real difference, though?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Champions League draw

Manchester City to face Barcelona
Arsenal to face Bayern Munich
Chelsea to face Galatasaray
Manchester United to face Olympiakos.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The full draw:
Manchester City v Barcelona
Olympiakos v Manchester United
AC Milan v Atletico Madrid
Bayer Leverkusen v Paris St-Germain
Galatasaray v Chelsea
Schalke v Real Madrid
Zenit St Petersburg v Dortmund
Arsenal v Bayern Munich

 

[Butts]

AVB sacked - 7th in the greed league obviously not good enough.

Now his payout will be in the millions

 

[fowler9]

AVB should get a bonus for not letting his team get beaten by more. Spurs and Man U were far and away the 2 most over rated teams in the Premiership at the start of the season.

 

[Robinson]

The full draw:
Manchester City v Barcelona
Olympiakos v Manchester United
AC Milan v Atletico Madrid
Bayer Leverkusen v Paris St-Germain
Galatasaray v Chelsea
Schalke v Real Madrid
Zenit St Petersburg v Dortmund
Arsenal v Bayern Munich

So a repeat of last season's round of 16 for Arsenal and Bayern, and Jose Mourinho gets his dream reunion with Drogba

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Does changing the manager ever make a real difference, though?

It seems to, to be fair- though not always! A little over 12 months ago, My club dispensed with the services of Simon 'Larry' Grayson- a manager who had finally got us out of the dreaded 3rd-tier and had done the same with both his previous clubs (Blackpool and that rowdy lot down the A62!). His replacement, Mark Robins, did not fill me with excitement and we finally clinched safety on the last day of the season by drawing with Barnsley- a mutually beneficial result. Now, we're still far from the 'finished article' and promotion is but a distant dream. The possibility of relegation is also very real given how close the Championship is, but performances on the pitch are very positive. On Saturday we largely dominated a much-fancied Reading side but thanks to some rather profligate finishing (and some remarkable goalkeeping from Reading's man in the sticks) sadly went down 0-1. That said, I can't remember the last time I walked back from a defeat with a smile on my face (the play-off second leg vs. Franchise notwithstanding!).

The national press also criticized our chairman for sacking Lee Clark and replacing him with Grayson, but 3 months later we were celebrating promotion at Wembley. I wouldn't be surprised to see Larry making it 4 out of 4 with Preston this season.

In other managerial news today, Gianfranco Zola has resigned from his position as head coach of Watford.

 

[Cletus]

More importantly, the FA Trophy draw.

1 Cambridge United v Luton Town
2 Aldershot Town v Guiseley
3 Hungerford Town v Gosport Borough or Nuneaton Town
4 Eastleigh v Dover Athletic
5 Tamworth v Chorley or Forest Green Rovers
6 Lincoln City v North Ferriby United
7 Grimsby Town v Maidenhead United
8 Whitehawk or Havant & Waterlooville v Ebbsfleet United

 

[Donny Dave]

Plenty of news coming out of Glanford Park, which looks like being the home of Scunthorpe United for potentially only another 18 months!

Peter Swann is increasing his stake in the club after a resolution was passed at the AGM last night to double the amount of share capital, of which he intends to buy half. Also revealed at the AGM was that the club were in talks to sell Glanford Park and the surrounding land that it owns, as it is classed as retail land and thus will command a premium to the price compared to ther sites. Peter Swann is also in talks with a local farmer to buy the land required for the new ground, which will have a capacity of 12000 (which could be expanded to 18000 if required in the future), plus the training and youth facilities, and other leisure facilities to try and make the ground a "7 day a week" place to visit, and generate income, instead of relying on gate money alone.

And in other news from Glanford Park, the club have resigned Paul Hayes until the end of the season, effictive from the 1st of January. Cracking bit of business this, as he has proved what he can do in L2, L1 and the Championship. I'm just wondering which striker at the club will see their contract trminated now. Probably Chris Iwulemo, as he hasn't done very much since joining in the summer.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Probably Chris Iwulemo, as he hasn't done very much since joining in the summer.

He did even less than that during his loan period at Oldham Athletic....:roll: