First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[tbtc]

Oh god can you imagine the campaigners then? Theyd start claiming we were going to get 50yr old 60mph class 20s hauling Mk2 coaches. Theyd have you believe journey times would be doubled etc etc.

"I've heard that we'll have nuclear flasks attached to all passenger trains" etc etc

 

[Nym]

Oh god can you imagine the campaigners then? Theyd start claiming we were going to get 50yr old 60mph class 20s hauling Mk2 coaches. Theyd have you believe journey times would be doubled etc etc.

But enthusiasts would all be visiting the lavatory because they'd have 20s, 37s and 47s hauling services on the mainline again... (If it where actually the case)

But I do think their livery would look reasonable, as would Stobart's, and lets be honest, thats the only real immediate noticeable difference...

 

[Geezertronic]

VT signage: Rugby, Birmingham International, Stafford, Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport, Runcorn.
BR signage: Coventry, Wolverhampton, Macclesfield, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle.

(That's from memory!)

Aside from booking office work at Preston, Wigan NW and Stockport, and a new building at Warrington BQ, not much has changed on the northern half from what I can gather.

And the BR sign at Birmingham International as well, that's still there near the rail link to the airport isn't it?

 

[SprinterMan]

I havent been banned. But i was told that one group was for Virgin only, and anti virgin comments werent allowed. (Obviously the irony in that never hit them!!). I just told them it wasnt anti Virgin comments i was making. Like you, I was trying to correct the incorrect posts. But as you have seen. It isnt seen that way.

Dont be too concerned about the delay. The IEP was delayed more than once, yet Hitachi still eventually won, and that deal had so many holes in it, it was embarassing.
I still expect First to win. They have made what seems to be the best bid, and the epetition is based on clever Virgin PR, and people assuming incorrect assumptions. Ie no Pendys etc etc.
Anyway, I doubt you could just hand the franchise to Virgin. You would surely have to go through the whole process again. This would lead to the new trains being delayed etc.
Actually thats a good one. Try telling the campaigners they are adding to the worlds pollution by doing this!!! Then try telling them they are delaying the introduction of extra trains and more capacity. That'll go down well!!

Anyway. As soon as it is seen what the epetition is based on, it will surely fail. I have no doubt Virgin will still end up on their backside. Only with a much heavier fall than would have been.

I really do hope you are correct about that. This is just getting silly now. If Virgin do keep the franchise in this "spoiled-brat" manner then I will boycott them when travelling from North Wales to East Anglia by travelling ATW to Newport then FGW to London, like I am doing when I go back to Uni.

When FGE lost their franchise, they had been doing a good job and they weren't happy about it, but there wasn't nearly this much whining, and they continued to provide a good service until the last day of the franchise. National Express then came in, and after doing a good job for 4 years just decided to ruin the entire region's railways through neglect, of which the recovery from this has only just started, ironically under the wing of a company renowned for doing things on the cheap. FGE were right that they would do a better job than NX, but that's the way things go.

FWC won't be like NXEA were, their bid was very good. has anyone seen VT's bid yet? If people protest and the government listen, we could well lose the baby pendos and the Shrewsbury trains. VT did their utmost to put WSMR out of business with their Wrexham train, and ran the XC network in a terrible manner. People HATED VT in the days when they ran XC, and Arriva have managed to do a better job than them despite not really doing anything.

Sorry to rant, but this is just getting stupid now.

Adam

 

[junglejames]

"I've heard that we'll have nuclear flasks attached to all passenger trains" etc etc

Not only that. All London to Glasgow services will be diverted via Heysham and Sellafield, with all passengers having to alight whilst the train went into the power stations grounds!!
Because of this, there would no longer be calls at Oxenholme The Lake District, or Penrith. Both stations would be closed.

There would also be no room for normal passengers, because every single seat would be taken up by trainspotters!!

 

[dvboy]

VT signage: Rugby, Birmingham International, Stafford, Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport, Runcorn.
BR signage: Coventry, Wolverhampton, Macclesfield, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle.

(That's from memory!)

Aside from booking office work at Preston, Wigan NW and Stockport, and a new building at Warrington BQ, not much has changed on the northern half from what I can gather.

A whole new platform was added at Wolverhampton

 

[Trains06]

Same at every station north of WBQ and at Wolverhampton and Macclesfield. I only know of Stockport, Rugby, Stoke and Crewe that have new signage.

They didn't even bother to tell the supplier their colours were red and grey...they had Crewe station covered in blue backgrounded Virgin stuff for a few months and had to re-do it..

 

[12CSVT]

Not only that. All London to Glasgow services will be diverted via Heysham and Sellafield, with all passengers having to alight whilst the train went into the power stations grounds!!
Because of this, there would no longer be calls at Oxenholme The Lake District, or Penrith. Both stations would be closed.

There would also be no room for normal passengers, because every single seat would be taken up by trainspotters!!

And if they are going to double up as nuclear flask trains does that mean pairs of DRS 20s and 37s for haulage ?

 

[F Great Eastern]

ignore

 

[Nym]

And if they are going to double up as nuclear flask trains does that mean pairs of DRS 20s and 37s for haulage ?

Yup, they're going to use Mk2s and Eurolight locomotives re-fitted for tilt last I heard about the DRS bid, they'll be using a 40000 ton press to taper in the sides of Mk2, re-bogieing them and hauling them with new 140mph 7000hp articulated locomotives...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A whole new platform was added at Wolverhampton

I think you will find that was specified by the SRA (and delivered just in time for the 2004 timetable change - and very useful it was too on the first day)

Coventry still has the Inter City claret signage (and to be fair is a superbly maintained classic 1960 era station)

 

[dvboy]

I wonder how many people would have signed the petition had Virgin not publicised it so much as if it were their own?

 

[Lampshade]

Even Stephen Fry has been pushing the petition on Twitter.

History and track record count for nothing, Virgin should make their bid public so we can see for ourselves who put forward the best bid.

 

[EM2]

Interesting readin g of the comment s on the beeb story
Where on Earth did he think up that statement from.

I know Andy K. He's an idiot.

 

[Trains06]

When the VT petition reaches its 100k target (presumably tommorow), will it have any effect on the outcome of the franchise holder and if so how much?

 

[WestCoast]

Even Stephen Fry has been pushing the petition on Twitter.

Has Sir Richard been calling in favours?

 

[Failed Unit]

When the VT petition reaches its 100k target (presumably tommorow), will it have any effect on the outcome of the franchise holder and if so how much?

No difference at all. If it did we HS2 would never happen as it would be stopped by epetition. Did the rolling electrification program get started because of the Epetition? Nope we were told no more wires it wasnt until much later the policy changed.

 

[RPI]

I think some of you guys who have actually seen the VT propoganda on their CIS screens should complain to ATOC and the DFT. It is getting stupid now, Virgin are just embarrasing themselves. Has anyone seen the "Let First Trasform the West coast" facebook page?

 

[Skimble19]

Over 90k now.. I had an email earlier saying over 20k had signed it - how long ago did they send it?

 

[tbtc]

Even Stephen Fry has been pushing the petition on Twitter

Yes: "Something dodgy about Virgin losing their franchise" - what's dodgy about it Stephen? Just a load of empty assertions with no evidence? Isn't this the kind of tosh that Fry is meant to be above?

Virgin are good at branding and good at "fun" products (cable television, cinema, cola, planes, beauty). First are good at running long distance train services. No conspiracy.

 

[SprinterMan]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/421308171239145/
This is my pro-FWC group.
Please feel free to join.
I refuse to stand idly by and do nothing while Beardy's antics go unchecked.
Adam

 

[David10]

When the VT petition reaches its 100k target (presumably tommorow), will it have any effect on the outcome of the franchise holder and if so how much?

No effect, reaching 100k only means it may rather than must be debated in parliament. E-petitions have no legal force.

The 100k limit was presumably set in the day when petitions were gained the old way as in applying pen to paper. Now that some d-grade celebrity can get a flock of sheep to blindly follow them on twitter, doesn't have the same impact.

I don't think many people would sign an old school petition without believing in the cause, but these e-petitions just attract the professional protester type who will sign anything just to be rebellious. Bit like those camped outside the stock exchange earlier in the year, half of them didn't know what they were protesting about.

 

[Aictos]

The sooner First signs these papers the better and the sooner they start running services, the sooner the Virgin fanboys realise that the same trains will run, the same staff will work and the same services will be available!!!

 

[RPI]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/421308171239145/
This is my pro-FWC group.
Please feel free to join.
I refuse to stand idly by and do nothing while Beardy's antics go unchecked.
Adam

http://www.facebook.com/#!/TransformTheWestCoast

someone did this one also but not many in it.

 

[185]

http://www.facebook.com/#!/TransformTheWestCoast

someone did this one also but not many in it.

And this....
http://www.facebook.com/DumpVirginTrains

 

[Nym]

Nice change of display pic there, but I do suspect that any pro First stuff will be pounded into the ground quick...

 

[185]

I am quite fair in my absolute distrust, disbelief and dislike for all of them.

 

[Nym]

Oh I'm sure everyone in here knows I don't like First Group, one of my posts previously in this thread details why in great detail, ya know, management and recruitment policies etc.

 

[Stats]

No effect, reaching 100k only means it may rather than must be debated in parliament. E-petitions have no legal force.

It's not only that there is no guarantee that it will be debated in parliament, it will not have any effect because First will have a legally binding contract next week while Parliament does not return until September to have a chance to debate it.

This raises the temperature several notches.
Apart from a potential "Government versus Parliament" debate we also face the prospect of delay in the handover, and any First-inspired investment.
On the other hand it will bring the process and some more bid detail into the open.

I agree with the Select Committee re transparency. I wonder if in future franchise bids, whether we can use this 10 day standstill period for the Select Committees to scrutinise the bids and take evidence so that the whole process can be more open. The problem at the minute is we don't know much detail about the winning bid and hardly anything about the other bids to even begin to make an assessment as to whether the Government have made the right choice.

 

[Mojo]

Interesting how in the past 5 financial years, Virgin "We’re a customer service company that runs trains" Trains has been the most complained about Toc 3 times, and in the other 2 years was the second-most complained about (per 100,000 customers).

http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/8ab9d22e-8ed7-443e-bbc4-8fd2d83bdea5

Furthermore, over the past four years Virgin has consistently ranked the bottom in the time taken in responding to customers' complaints; in the past year only 57% were answered within 20 days; the only franchised Toc not to respond to at least 80% within 20 days.

http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/ecd85bfc-3ec9-48ad-b35c-a926c463e8d3