First Group: General Discussion

[Jordan Adam]

As far as I know it's not possible with the current legislation. I'd have hoped that the council had better things to be look at however if they're short of stuff to do then dealing with traffic congestion and illegal parking would be good first moves both of which they can control already.

Aberdeen City Council.... Don't have the funds to cut grass if it's on a slope, yet they'll have the funds to buy out and then reinvest in a bus operator that currently struggles to break even. I think we can all see where this is going. Not to mention their sheer lack of competence and appalling maintenance standards with their HGV fleet. ACC getting their hands a public transport operator would be a disaster.

 

[richw]

As far as I know it's not possible with the current legislation. I'd have hoped that the council had better things to be look at however if they're short of stuff to do then dealing with traffic congestion and illegal parking would be good first moves both of which they can control already.

Scottish legislation allows it. English legislation doesn’t

 

[winston270twm]

Coast's final assault on FGP Board, Coast to release a 24 page report rebutting FGP's claims:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...up-faces-fresh-assault-top-shareholder-split/

FirstGroup faces fresh assault from top shareholder over split

16 June 2019 • 7:00am

The biggest shareholder in FirstGroup is to launch a fresh assault against the transport operator’s board, attacking “false statements” and “misleading claims”, in an escalation of hostilities.

US activist Coast Capital Management will this week publish a 24-page rebuttal to claims made by FirstGroup.

Coast wants to replace half the board with seven of its candidates, and a shareholder vote has been called for June 25. Coast claims that chief executive Matthew Gregory has refused to meet its representatives.

Partner James Rasteh said: “I would challenge Mr Gregory to a debate.” FirstGroup says Coast declined its offer of a recent meeting.

The US investment firm believes a sale of FirstGroup’s North American school and municipal bus options could be worth more than £3bn. “We have identified numerous potential buyers,” said Mr Rasteh. It also disputes claims by the company that it tried to buy the Greyhound coach network in a cut-price deal. Coast says it issued chairman Wolfhart Hauser with a letter of intent at a valuation it claims he said was “fair”.

“If they behave like that with other private equity firms they aren’t going to sell anything,” said Mr Rasteh. FirstGroup said Mr Hauser did not consider it to be in the interests of all shareholders to sell to Coast based on the value in the proposal.

Final bid
Coast’s response to FirstGroup’s allegations represents its final bid to convince other shareholders to back its boardroom overhaul. It will bring to a head months, if not years, of frustration among some shareholders about the company’s strategy.

The outcome of the vote will hinge the decisions by a handful of FirstGroup’s largest investors including Columbia Threadneedle, Schroder Investment Management, Majedie Asset Management and Dimensional Fund Advisors. For instance, these four alone control almost a third of the company’s stock, according to Bloomberg filings.

The company has urged investors to reject the board changes.

FirstGroup announced at the end of last month that its Greyhound coach network and UK bus arm are up for sale. Industry insiders say the company has been trying to sell both divisions for some time behind closed doors. Prior to this announcement, another of the company’s biggest shareholders said that if FirstGroup failed to roll out more than “incremental steps” then “Coast might find their EGM better supported than they might think”.

On Friday, influential proxy adviser ISS partially backed Coast’s proposals, supporting the removal and replacement of one of the company’s directors.

Mr Gregory, FirstGroup’s former finance chief, was appointed chief executive in November. When taking over he warned that the company’s pension deficit had grown by £200m and was a hurdle in the way of selling parts of the business.

Coast said last month that it has hired consultancy XPS Pensions to assess matters. It concluded that a change in pension investment policy and a £100m injection would be sufficient to “neutralise” the deficit.

Hopes were raised when Mr Hauser, the former chief executive of Intertek, was appointed in 2015 to replace John McFarlane, who left to chair Barclays’ board. He stuck by long-term chief executive Tim O’Toole for three years, who oversaw two-thirds of the company’s stock market value wiped away since taking over in 2010.

Mr O’Toole stepped down last May after FirstGroup reported a £326m loss. He was criticised for spurning an approach from US private equity giant Apollo Management in the weeks before leading up to his departure.

Coast is not the first activist in recent years to publicly attack FirstGroup’s strategy to continue operating in the UK. In 2017, Canadian fund West Face Capital, then a top-five shareholder, said that “the UK seems to be the tail that wags the dog”. Still the case today, the company continues to make most of its profit operating across the Atlantic.

A FirstGroup spokesman said: "We engage with all of our major shareholders to understand their position. Coast have had more than 20 calls or meetings with us since March 2018, including numerous conversations with the chairman and CEO, and have discussed the future of company in detail with them."

 

[KendalKing]

Coast's final assault on FGP Board, Coast to release a 24 page report rebutting FGP's claims:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...up-faces-fresh-assault-top-shareholder-split/

Between them, they will destroy what is left of First Group.

 

[overthewater]

And allow anyone to pick up assets on the cheap. Its like some sort of old kingom story.

 

[Robertj21a]

Between them, they will destroy what is left of First Group.

Well, it's hardly been a massive success story to date !

 

[DragonEast]

Between them, they will destroy what is left of First Group.

May be it would be for the best to see First Group consigned to the dustbin of history. I doubt anyone is that stupid to reinvent it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

May be it would be for the best to see First Group consigned to the dustbin of history. I doubt anyone is that stupid to reinvent it.

Thing is that Stagecoach managed to create a large transport business across multiple modes and geographies. First could have done that and done it successfully.

The difference is that Souter (irrespective of religion and politics) is a very sensible and pragmatic businessman. He knows what to buy and for how much and, more importantly, when it's right to sell. There is also the cultural approach etc.

Lockhead however seemed intent on being the biggest, come what may. I've mentioned it before, but I knew they'd "jumped the shark" when they paid a ridiculous sum for Cawlett Group. From memory, it was £18m or so.... some terrible operating territory, a bit of property and a fleet that had little modern stuff and a lot of elderly legacy fleet.

A vanity purchase used up money that could have been better served modernising some of their other operations. Of course, that paled into nothing compared to the Laidlaw purchase.

 

[overthewater]

Wow First jumped the shake 2 years into its life? That is poor, of course this was around the time Stagecoach was on its backside.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wow First jumped the shake 2 years into its life? That is poor, of course this was around the time Stagecoach was on its backside.

Iirc, it was 1999 so four years. They were busy hoovering up a load of firms such as GM North, Mainline, Centrewest and Capital Citybus as the market consolidated but Cawlett was one that caught my eye as there were fewer opportunities to buy.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.rotalaplc.com/careers/co...ICJn44sg-XynUY69lv_zxhRv9lFWVthyo0_HFqB4S4fFk
What does this tell us?

CORPORATE DESIGN MANAGER - NORTH WEST
Up to £32,000
An exciting opportunity has arisen within the North West, due to our programme of acquisition, we are creating a regional corporate design manager role, responsible for the graphic design needs of two companies within this region and a process of aligning newly acquisitioned businesses into the corporate design and branding of Rotala Plc/Diamond Bus North West Ltd and Preston Bus Ltd. The role will be based in Bolton, some travel across 5 sites may be required.

Reporting to the Directors, the successful candidate will demonstrate high levels of creative expertise to develop and create design content for anything from Corporate campaigns to internal communication flyers and everything in between covering , bus livery, site signage, branded literature, providing design and artwork to support tenders, email newsletters, social and web content. An experienced and hands on creative fully versed in the design and art direction process. You'll be as happy concepting and creating a big idea as you are churning through the smaller stuff.

Whilst you will have a reporting line, you'll be comfortable to work independently and in teams across multiple projects.

The hours of work will be 8.30am – 5.00pm, 40 hours per week, but you will be expected to work the hours necessary to fulfill the requirements of the role.

Key Accountabilities

• Branding: acting as brand guardian ensuring the corporate image is on all marketing collateral (printed and electronic), is consistent and a professional image is promoted across all areas of the business.
• Corporate Items: Manage the design of all branded and promotional items used across the business ranging from posters, stickers, stationary.
• Literature Design: Working on design across all media formats such as event flyers, brochures and marketing materials whilst also ensuring that all corporate literature is fully branded and updated by Company.
• Creative Internal Artwork: Updating of posters, billboard, company images and general branding in all of the company's offices, depots across all locations.
• Livery: Designing and updating artwork internally and externally for all our fleet of over 350 vehicles
• Photography & Filming Projects: Offering creative direction as and when required liaising with our photographer & filming production agencies to create new imagery and video projects.
• Recruitment: Working with the HR department for branded campaigns
• Events: Provide project support for any graphical or promotional content.
• To ensure best practice in all Rotala Plc operations including compliance with legal and policy requirements.
• Ability to create and deliver to tight deadlines to ensure the timely delivery of daily, seasonal and project works.
• Some experience in managing third party agencies to deliver results

Qualifications and Experience

• Creative/Design experience
• Proven experience using the Adobe Suite including InDesign, Illustrator and Photoshop
• Good working knowledge of Microsoft Office, Word, PowerPoint, Excel and Teams
• Experience of the end-to-end design process from concept to final artwork delivery.

 

[Alexbus12]

http://www.rotalaplc.com/careers/co...ICJn44sg-XynUY69lv_zxhRv9lFWVthyo0_HFqB4S4fFk
What does this tell us?

Been advertised since the beginning of May

 

[overthewater]

Does Rotala have 5 depot right now in the north west?

 

[DragonEast]

Thing is that Stagecoach managed to create a large transport business across multiple modes and geographies. First could have done that and done it successfully.

The difference is that Souter (irrespective of religion and politics) is a very sensible and pragmatic businessman. He knows what to buy and for how much and, more importantly, when it's right to sell. There is also the cultural approach etc.

Lockhead however seemed intent on being the biggest, come what may. I've mentioned it before, but I knew they'd "jumped the shark" when they paid a ridiculous sum for Cawlett Group. From memory, it was £18m or so.... some terrible operating territory, a bit of property and a fleet that had little modern stuff and a lot of elderly legacy fleet.

A vanity purchase used up money that could have been better served modernising some of their other operations. Of course, that paled into nothing compared to the Laidlaw purchase.

Yes, but surely in life any ole fool can spend money. The whole point is to spend it wisely. Business is no different.

And twenty years later, aren't First still boasting of their size and scale as if it is the solution to everything? Read what they still say "About Us" in the introduction to the Group. First (the word in its other meaning) impressions matter. Everyone makes mistakes, it's admitting it to yourself that's often the hardest (and most necessary) bit.

It's a cheap jibe, I know, but even the name "First". It isn't an accolade that you bestow upon yourself.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, but surely in life any ole fool can spend money. The whole point is to spend it wisely. Business is no different.

Isn’t that what I said? Souter spends wisely, knew what to buy and sell and when. Moir didn’t.

Did you miss something?

 

[DragonEast]

Isn’t that what I said? Souter spends wisely, knew what to buy and sell and when. Moir didn’t.

Did you miss something?

Yes and no, to your questions, in that order. Did you read the rest of my post?

To make a serious point (and be specific): I suspect where we disagree is that I suspect Moir knew exactly what he was doing, but was reckless as to the risks; and at the heart of that is the culture thing (not an also-ran). He, and the Group have tried to live up to the reputation (they thought at least) they had crafted for themselves. They're not alone in that.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Just read up on The Cawlett Group who TheGrandWazoo mentioned in an earlier post as I had never heard of that name until today. Looks like the area served presently by Buses of Somerset.

Didn't Moir Lockhead have a second in command for the first couple of years of First Group? I can't remember his name.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes and no, to your questions, in that order. Did you read the rest of my post?

Yes I did. You confused me when you said “yes but” and then reiterated what I said.

As for First’s website..... Not sure what your point is? You suggesting any firm should go all “Uriah Heap”? Or that it mentions its size - exactly as Lothian or Arriva do? It’s just what firms do - in any industry.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just read up on The Cawlett Group who TheGrandWazoo mentioned in earlier post as I had never heard of that name until today. Looks like the area served presently by Buses of Somerset.

Didn't Moir Lockhead have a second in command for the first couple of years of First Group? I can't remember his name.

Cawlett was Southern National (BoS and First Wessex) and Red Bus (now vacated Barnstaple area).

 

[Cesarcollie]

Just read up on The Cawlett Group who TheGrandWazoo mentioned in an earlier post as I had never heard of that name until today. Looks like the area served presently by Buses of Somerset.

Didn't Moir Lockhead have a second in command for the first couple of years of First Group? I can't remember his name.

No. Only Moir was in command..... there was no second (or third). Everyone else did as they were told. Or departed. JFDI. That was a big part of the problem the group has today!

 

[Jordan Adam]

No. Only Moir was in command..... there was no second (or third). Everyone else did as they were told. Or departed. JFDI. That was a big part of the problem the group has today!

Not the wisest idea. I in no way am a businessman or have any real experience in business. But even i could tell you that just having one person dictate everything is not the smartest thing to do!

 

[DunsBus]

Yes and no, to your questions, in that order. Did you read the rest of my post?

To make a serious point (and be specific): I suspect where we disagree is that I suspect Moir knew exactly what he was doing, but was reckless as to the risks; and at the heart of that is the culture thing (not an also-ran). He, and the Group have tried to live up to the reputation (they thought at least) they had crafted for themselves. They're not alone in that.

An example I can give was the decision to specify aircon on a number of buses. GRT forgot to factor in the effect which aircon had on fuel consumption, nor the long-term costs of servicing and maintaining the systems. The upshot of this was that the buses fitted that were fitted with aircon quickly had it switched off for good.

In case you're wondering what Sir Moir Lochhead is doing these days, he's now the Chairman of the National Trust for Scotland. I can only hope that he's doing a better job of looking after the nation's treasures then he did of running the buses!

 

[buslad1988]

Probably just me thinking this (and going against the general consensus in this thread) but I for one will be sad to see the end of First Bus... when the time comes.

Yes they’ve made some bad choices and decisions in the past. Their reputation has “been through the mill” in the certain places to say the least; but it will be the end of an era.

If they could of just kept their focus on UK bus in the first place instead of losing their way in the early 2000’s - and dropping the local fleetnames things may not have gone so wrong.

I remember the launch of the original barbie Dart SLF’s/Scanias etc and at the time they were a real head turner offering a more quality service, classy livery and sophisticated interior (although not to everyone’s tastes!) you knew they quality buses when you see one coming towards you.

Just a shame they couldn’t keep moving with the times, modern trends and purchasing new stock in the high numbers they were back in the late 1990’s.

Overground too was quite a new thing back in the day!

 

[DD12]

Probably just me thinking this (and going against the general consensus in this thread) but I for one will be sad to see the end of First Bus... when the time comes.

As far as I know it is still a possibility that the whole of (or most of) First Bus UK might be floated as a stand-alone company (PLC ?) -- -- or have I missed something ?

Also, there is, I believe, a big shareholders meeting soon (25th ?) where presumably they will vote to remove the current BoD, or support the current BoD who will then proceed with their current plans, -- -- if anyone can correct or clarify that factually, please do !!

 

[Jordan Adam]

First undoubtedly paved the way in the bus industry, the transformation from the 90s to the 00s was something to behold. You just have to look at some of the outdated tired prehistoric fleets they acquired and then turned around so by the late 00s those fleets were fairly modern. However what's the point in paving the way if 10 years down the line you start to struggle to keep up.

People today moan on about 15 year old deckers being on the road still. Keep in mind some of Grampian's Olympians lasted not far off 30 years! It just goes to show how times change.

 

[GusB]

Probably just me thinking this (and going against the general consensus in this thread) but I for one will be sad to see the end of First Bus... when the time comes.

Yes they’ve made some bad choices and decisions in the past. Their reputation has “been through the mill” in the certain places to say the least; but it will be the end of an era.

If they could of just kept their focus on UK bus in the first place instead of losing their way in the early 2000’s - and dropping the local fleetnames things may not have gone so wrong.

I remember the launch of the original barbie Dart SLF’s/Scanias etc and at the time they were a real head turner offering a more quality service, classy livery and sophisticated interior (although not to everyone’s tastes!) you knew they quality buses when you see one coming towards you.

Just a shame they couldn’t keep moving with the times, modern trends and purchasing new stock in the high numbers they were back in the late 1990’s.

Overground too was quite a new thing back in the day!

I agree with the loss of local identity. It's something that I hated when Stagecoach got their hands on a company, and I thought that GRT had the right idea by keeping a corporate style, but retaining local colours. When First came into being I was living in Aberdeen, and they already had "head turners" in the form of the Mercedes O.405s and their "Gold Service" branding. The introduction of Scanias and Dennis Drats in Barbie Garb was a step down, IMHO.

First undoubtedly paved the way in the bus industry, the transformation from the 90s to the 00s was something to behold. You just have to look at some of the outdated tired prehistoric fleets they acquired and then turned around so by the late 00s those fleets were fairly modern. However what's the point in paving the way if 10 years down the line you start to struggle to keep up.

People today moan on about 15 year old deckers being on the road still. Keep in mind some of Grampian's Olympians lasted not far off 30 years! It just goes to show how times change.

Did First really pave the way? The former SBG/NBC fleets were getting tired due to lack of investment in the run-up to privatisation. Stagecoach were placing large orders for standardised buses (Olympians, Darts, Volvo B6, B10M etc.) before GRT and Badgerline merged. Looking at Aberdeen in particular, yes there was a massive leap forward in terms of reduction in the average fleet age, but you didn't have to travel too far to see that other fleets still suffered (First Edinburgh, for example). I lived in Edinburgh from 2001-2, and apart from the new-ish Darts that did the 22, everything else was SBG-era and probably getting on for at least 20 years old.
Having to replace outdated, tired, prehistoric fleets wasn't an issue unique to First, and they certainly weren't the only group doing it.

 

[alangla]

The thing I always found odd about First was the amount of inter fleet shuffling that went on. The low floor revolution in Glasgow started initially with a mixed bunch of buses in that awful red livery in mid 1997, but quickly settled to massive orders of Darts and Scania/Wrights in Barbie 1 from R registration on. This continued through S, then a break during T, a few V incl Volvo artics, then big orders for Volvo/ALX300s on W (which quickly went to Aberdeen) and more Scanias on X. By this time though, the R and S plates had started leaving, then when the big orders of Volvo/Wrights arrived on 51/02 plates pretty much all the 1990s Scanias had left leaving a load of ultra modern SLFs, some early 80s SBG Tigers and a DD fleet of knackered Ailsas, super high Citybuses and some 1990s Olympians. None of it really seemed to make much sense- new stuff basically left as quickly as it arrived but the ancient stock clung on, sometimes with the addition of total oddballs like a single Eastern SBG Citybus.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The thing I always found odd about First was the amount of inter fleet shuffling that went on. The low floor revolution in Glasgow started initially with a mixed bunch of buses in that awful red livery in mid 1997, but quickly settled to massive orders of Darts and Scania/Wrights in Barbie 1 from R registration on. This continued through S, then a break during T, a few V incl Volvo artics, then big orders for Volvo/ALX300s on W (which quickly went to Aberdeen) and more Scanias on X. By this time though, the R and S plates had started leaving, then when the big orders of Volvo/Wrights arrived on 51/02 plates pretty much all the 1990s Scanias had left leaving a load of ultra modern SLFs, some early 80s SBG Tigers and a DD fleet of knackered Ailsas, super high Citybuses and some 1990s Olympians. None of it really seemed to make much sense- new stuff basically left as quickly as it arrived but the ancient stock clung on, sometimes with the addition of total oddballs like a single Eastern SBG Citybus.

There was only actually 30 Volvo/ALX300's ordered, so not a huge batch (compared to the Wrights), all of which moved to Aberdeen in 2001 at around 6-9 months old along with most of the R-GHS batch and some Renowns from Manchester as part of a maintenance contract.

 

[buslad1988]

The thing I always found odd about First was the amount of inter fleet shuffling that went on. The low floor revolution in Glasgow started initially with a mixed bunch of buses in that awful red livery in mid 1997, but quickly settled to massive orders of Darts and Scania/Wrights in Barbie 1 from R registration on. This continued through S, then a break during T, a few V incl Volvo artics, then big orders for Volvo/ALX300s on W (which quickly went to Aberdeen) and more Scanias on X. By this time though, the R and S plates had started leaving, then when the big orders of Volvo/Wrights arrived on 51/02 plates pretty much all the 1990s Scanias had left leaving a load of ultra modern SLFs, some early 80s SBG Tigers and a DD fleet of knackered Ailsas, super high Citybuses and some 1990s Olympians. None of it really seemed to make much sense- new stuff basically left as quickly as it arrived but the ancient stock clung on, sometimes with the addition of total oddballs like a single Eastern SBG Citybus.

Must admit some of their fleet movements were interesting... certainly wasn’t any different at Eastern Counties.

To replace elderly Bristol VR’s in Ipswich there was a mix of nine Volvo B6’s/Darts transferred in 1997 however all of these (bar one) were moved to Leicester within a couple of years... only to be replaced by another identical batch of Volvo B6’s from Glasgow in 2001 (which then didn’t get repainted until barbie 2 was launched).

Likewise a large batch of R/GFS Scanias came from Glasgow in 2002 then in 2003 the ten ex Superoute 66 W/SNG Scanias then got moved to Glasgow - which really should of been kept to replace aging Greenways and Javelins.

 

[DunsBus]

The Edinburgh Overground was the first sign of First starting to lose its way. Launched in July 2000 amidst great fanfare, it was history just 12 months later.