TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I'd even say that Cwmbran was a bit of a hike from the bus station or the shopping centre!
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First Group: General Discussion
- Thread starter overthewater
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I'd even say that Cwmbran was a bit of a hike from the bus station or the shopping centre!
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Dai Corner
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About 10 mins walk I should think, or a minute or so by bus.
overthewater
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In Scotland it a east/west divide mainly 
You will find timetables at most bus stations dotted around the areas, but the exceptions to the rules are:
* Perth: hit and miss what is sent.
* Livingston, there is no office and hasn't been on for 17 years
* Most of the inner SPT areas, since SPT closed down all the travel centres bar Buchanan. Thankful Cumbernauld has half decent timetable rack in the council office ( its the only decent SPT timetable rack in North Lanarkshire) Mcgill do try and put them in the council offices and on the buses as well but that is hit and miss.
* Falkirk lost its travel shop for 5 years? 2001-2006 and then it reopened when the inspector moved out of the hut and into actually office space, and company got someone to help with travel issues.
The simple fact is, the companies are trying to cut down on the paper timetables.
You will find timetables at most bus stations dotted around the areas, but the exceptions to the rules are:
* Perth: hit and miss what is sent.
* Livingston, there is no office and hasn't been on for 17 years
* Most of the inner SPT areas, since SPT closed down all the travel centres bar Buchanan. Thankful Cumbernauld has half decent timetable rack in the council office ( its the only decent SPT timetable rack in North Lanarkshire) Mcgill do try and put them in the council offices and on the buses as well but that is hit and miss.
* Falkirk lost its travel shop for 5 years? 2001-2006 and then it reopened when the inspector moved out of the hut and into actually office space, and company got someone to help with travel issues.
The simple fact is, the companies are trying to cut down on the paper timetables.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
To be fair to First, in certain areas such as the tourist spots like Cornwall and Dorset, they do still produce good timetable books that are available. They also used to have travel shops in Cornwall - they still do in Newquay and Truro though think that Penzance has now closed in favour of the adjoining TIC. Camborne is now no longer open though.
Dorset has a place opposite the train station in Weymouth which is the welfare facility and where the local management used to be based. Lots of vinyls and advertising but not open to the public. NOTE: this is a trait of Arriva - similar instances in Bangor, Darlington, Redcar....
Dorset has a place opposite the train station in Weymouth which is the welfare facility and where the local management used to be based. Lots of vinyls and advertising but not open to the public. NOTE: this is a trait of Arriva - similar instances in Bangor, Darlington, Redcar....
Goldfish62
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Yes, the Penzance one closed in favour of the adjoining TIC which has similar opening hours.
Surely it *is* your loss if you are forced to give up waiting. What do you do instead? Shell out for a taxi to get to work/shops or medical appointment. Give up on a day out. And how accurate is the app anyway.
Incidentally, I have been reminded that there is another limitation to using Apps: Bandwith. I only originally put ONE app on my phone - albeit it needs googlemaps to work. I have since added one or two Transport related apps. However, I get all sorts of rubbish like GooglePlay and NewsStand. Thus, they use of bandwith in the background and every few days i get a "couldn't sync" message stopping e-mails and other links.....
Goldfish62
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I do find the First Bus app tracking buses fitted with Ticketer to be accurate. The Stagecoach app, however, often seems to be a matter of fiction, unless Stagecoach operates invisible buses.
Dai Corner
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There are ways to restrict which apps can use your mobile data, but I won't go into detail as it's off topic here.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
In Aberdeen all First Aberdeen timetables can be found in the travel shop and in the reception to King Street Depot. In general 8 times out of 10 the buses will also have the correct timetables for the route it on at the front but this can be a little hit or miss at times. Some drivers are good enough though to make sure there's the correct timetables on show if it's on a duty that inter works.
With Stagecoach most can normally be found on the rack next to the desk at the bus station, although quite often some are missing (i'm sure if you asked at the desk they'd be able to give you). On the actual buses though it's only occasionally that i've seen timetables on show.
With Stagecoach most can normally be found on the rack next to the desk at the bus station, although quite often some are missing (i'm sure if you asked at the desk they'd be able to give you). On the actual buses though it's only occasionally that i've seen timetables on show.
They did! They upgraded to Ticketer ETM contactless on all First Slough buses on March 4th 2018. Why it has taken so long to provide I'll never know...
https://www.firstgroup.com/berkshire-thames-valley/tickets/ticket-types/contactless-payments
https://twitter.com/firstberkshire/status/970014815770030080
Still not using touch in touch out, meaning a time wasting conversation with the driver is still required.
Still unnecessarily slow. Contactless only eliminates the change giving. You still have to spend time talking to the driver and the driver still has to enter the details into the machine and print out a receipt.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
That's all well and good but this is about educating people and getting change to happen incrementally.
This story from the Bristol Post yesterday is perhaps an indication of the steps that still need to be made. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/metrobus-ticket-payment-machines-wont-1301138
Of course, pre-payment methods (such as keymeters) have been with us for more than 20 years and we should look to move to a means that does improve the level of contactless in order to move to a "touch in" world. However, we should remember where we've come from and the technological shifts that have come along in terms of mobile technology as a society.
I know that there will undoubtedly be the justified pointing to Oyster cards and the experiences elsewhere in the world. However, we are moving in the right direction now that the financial impediments are now much smaller and so support cost benefit cases.
How does giving passengers an extra way of paying the driver help educate passengers if we actually intend to implement a ticketing/fare system that does not require driver input in the near future? Paying the driver, either by card or cash, should only be considered a backup to be used for a very small minority of passenger boardings.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The way in which it is being done in Bristol is to provide a discount for non-cash sales (which acts a disincentive to use cash). The flip side of the argument is that it penalises cash users who (the attached article refers) are the poorest in society.
Not sure what the relevance of contactless is here. I can't see any difference in price between cash and contactless.
Most tickets, including singles, are available at a discount off bus, which makes sense.
Which operators use touch in & touch out?
First Slough moved from fare stages to a zonal fare system last year, so I presume there's a bit less screen tapping needed to sell tickets now.
Two separate issues here. Yes, going contactless will not, in itself, give us the all singing, all dancing, utopian, fully integrated system that will take forever to negotiate, probably need an Act of Parliament and will cost a fortune to implement. However, it does mean that casual users of the bus will not have worry about having the correct change to buy a ticket. It is something I will find useful next time I visit places like Cardiff where my Bus Pass is not valid.
Trent Barton, most if not all bus companies in the Netherlands and Denmark.
Thanks.
Fast boarding methods have existed for decades in many places without the need for modern technology or legislation.
I should emphasise that these are using regular smartcards, not contactless bank cards. I don't know anywhere using contactless for touch in and touch out except London for rail transport.
So there is a slight trade off in speeding up boarding with TB's Mango. You would have to wait for the smartcard reader to correctly read your smartcard before you get off, in order to pay the correct fare.
Totally agree with the points in the article - and these go more for First and Stagecoach Manchester, where the last major fare increase (both have had further increases since), meant those using new technology paid a fare rise of double inflation, whilst those paying cash paid Triple. Consequently, the word "discount" does not feature, just how the two penalties compare.
Listen to yourself! Fare paying passengers need "educating" do they? How arrogant can you be? As an alternative, how about;
Bus companies being educated to schedule realistic running times, fit efficient ticket machines that don't take three minutes to log on with driver changeovers (are you listen Stagecoach Manchester, cos you only have to look out of your HO window to see it?), and stop slashing services on busy corridors thus increasing boarding and alighting times (irrelevant of ticketing) on the remaining journeys.
Local Authorities being educated to introduce effective bus priorities, including and especially Traffic Light cycles (well done, Swansea City Council if anyone from there is reading this) and start instructing their parking wardens to turn a blind eye to bus stop blocking.
In short, Carrot BEFORE stick. When bus services - especially in low car ownership areas- stop being slashed; bus fares stop increasing three times inflation; reliability reaches 99%; punctuality reaches 98%; and missed connections with more than say 10 minutes to spare on paper, are compensated for THEN you can start "educating" the geese that keep laying golden eggs for Stagecoach & First shareholders and Deutsche Bahn's rail users, to part with their hard earned money BEFORE the goods are delivered!
I wasn't the one talking about education!
Sincere Apologies;
It seems both you and TGW were using/quoting the term in complete contrast to the general tone of the rest of of your respective replies.
Needless to say, I stick by my general comments. As I've said before (though not necessarily on this Forum) Its not the differences between the two "political" sides of he transport debate that scares me - its the similarities. And that is the belief from both free/captive marketeers and local authority "planners"; that "everyone (over 20) has access to private transport"; everyone works in the "regional centre"; everyone not only has a smartphone but also wonderful, 100% reliable wi-fi and internet connections; all non cash payments are totally safe from cyber-criminals, and that buses are a "stop gap" whilst people are "educated" to use rail...usually accessed by private transport.
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
First are nationally pursuing an agenda in moving both to non-cash sales via contactless payment, and also moving people to m-tickets via a variance between on-bus ticket and m-ticket prices. For instance, the Bristol inner day ticket increased in November from £4.00 to £4.50 for on-bus sales but was frozen at £4.00 for m-tickets. That was painted as being a discount vs. an inevitable fare increase though it can equally be argued as a surcharge for those poorer in society who don't have smartphones/a debit card.
"Education" is not meant as a pejorative term - perhaps more accurately, it is a way of shaping demand etc. However, the way in which we are living our lives is changing. That is clear. Where mobile phones were big and bulky and expensive, the technology moved massively in 10 years so by the end of the 20th century, they were massively more accessible. The same is the case with smartphones - PAYG phones can be bought for £50 and as for a wifi signal, that isn't a requirement. A 4G signal will suffice.
Security concerns are understandable and such systems should be robust and safe. So should ATMs, internet banking and, indeed, the whole banking system.
However, it is the clear direction of travel (no pun) and whilst we progress to a cash free environment, the steps to do so should be done with sufficient sensitivity as to be inclusive not exclusive.
Every transport system which has off bus ticketing that I can think of has a way of buying tickets off bus in cash. Many operators in the world have operated without driver ticket sales decades before contactless bank cards or smartphones were invented, without controversy.
The whole point of encouraging off bus ticketing is to increase ridership and thus reduce car use. Why else would public transport authorities across the world pursue that policy?
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