First Group: General Discussion

[Robertj21a]

I like to speculate about all possible future bus developments - I find it great fun, and I like to read all the speculations on here -
including the possible cascades.

There are often interesting bits of information and debate mixed in with it -
like I didn't know about the Scania E400 mmc, on trial on the X1.

Keep it up everyone !!

I don't mind if it's quite obvious that it's pure speculation/gossip/plain silliness. What bothers me is that there are some posters who keep making statements of, apparent, fact when it's nothing more than pure guesstimates. They cause confusion for others who are trying to follow what is happening at bus operators in the real world.
By all means play at Fantasy Bus games off the forum or, if you must post it on here, please make it quite clear that it is only your opinion, not fact.

 

[baza585]

Why should they be making significant cuts ? - the last Accounts showed Glasgow to be one of the most profitable parts of First Bus.

Indeed. I've never understood why Glasgow and West Yorkshire have been starved of investment in recent years, while areas like Bristol and FSA (which perform poorly financially) get new buses.I would hope Glasgow and FWY get their share and more of this year's order.

 

[ChrisPJ]

My interpretation was, the point being made is that recently First have too often retrenched rather than invested, there was a fair bit of that in the run up to DDA compliance deadlines. But nothing stopping them hanging onto old stock now unless local LEZ schemes etc dictate otherwise

 

[overthewater]

Indeed. I've never understood why Glasgow and West Yorkshire have been starved of investment in recent years, while areas like Bristol and FSA (which perform poorly financially) get new buses.I would hope Glasgow and FWY get their share and more of this year's order.

I would like to know this aswell, actually just last year some of the older E300 62 plates were shipped out from Glasgow and sent to Stirling, and the stock was replaced by newer MMC200. Yet it never dealt with the old stock just stocking piling up.

I hope Andrew Javis the new MD will do something; he may be pro bus, but alas he oversaw some unpleasant cuts in Fife, wasted alot of money on free goody bags and clowns to promote new buses.

Worse case has been to promoted the X24 service with 8 year old coaches: Dont' pretend to have a first class service while using third class assets. If there had done up the coaches inside then I could have looked the other way but the coaches in question are dirty and the seats you can clear see the filth.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would like to know this aswell, actually just last year some of the older E300 62 plates were shipped out from Glasgow and sent to Stirling, and the stock was replaced by newer MMC200. Yet it never dealt with the old stock just stocking piling up.

Yes but only some of them.

It's a tricky balance to strike in order to replace the big, profitable fleets but then avoiding the compulsion of not just replacing in those fleets and just sending knackered cast offs to the less fashionable places.

The argument could've been made to retain the 60 plate e300s from the Airport service but they've been used to provide some half decent cascades for Somerset.

Remember that Stagecoach were very good at using London (and then Manchester) to take new vehicles but quickly moving them to other OpCos (e.g. West, United Counties) in order to update those fleets. That allowed newer fleet into fleets that would ordinarily not be able to absorb that much book value and has since enabled them to do so subsequently.

 

[KendalKing]

Indeed. I've never understood why Glasgow and West Yorkshire have been starved of investment in recent years,

West Yorkshire, received 44 new Double Deck buses from 2016 order.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Probably to get rid of the last step entrance Olympians.

Not seen anything new at Huddersfield mind you, just more scrap cascaded from Leeds

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm told there may be some more cutbacks due at First Potteries. Anyone know the details ?

 

[winston270twm]

I'm told there may be some more cutbacks due at First Potteries. Anyone know the details ?

There's a number of registration changes for First Potteries showing on new VOSA search facility on 2.3.17. These will be also appear in WM N&P this Friday.

 

[F Great Eastern]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/aircoach-operators-profits-soar-to-8m-35500923.html

The private bus company that operates the Aircoach service from Dublin Airport made a profit of €8m last year, paying its UK-based parent a €10m dividend.

The Aircoach service is operated by Last Passive Ltd, which is owned by British multinational First Group.

Aircoach doubled its profit in 2016, according to financial results filed with the Companies Office. Before 2015, the business had suffered a number of years of losses.

However the NI company made a small loss and apparently another company connected to Aircoach did the same, because it's divided up into three parts.

 

[overthewater]

There's a number of registration changes for First Potteries showing on new VOSA search facility on 2.3.17. These will be also appear in WM N&P this Friday.

If you use the Export as CSV button you can get the follow extra details (thank Vovlodart for finding out this gem)

• 5 Hanley, Bus Station Abbey Hulton Vary timetable.
• 8 (8a, 98) HANLEY BUS STATION ENDON FOUNTAIN SMALLTHORNE - NORTON Vary timetable.
• 72 Newcastle Bus Station Clayton Vary route and timetable
• 7 (7A) Hanley Bus Station Biddulph/Kidsgrove vary timetable
• 37 Meir Limedale Business Prk Hanley, Newcastle Vary timetable
• 3 KEELE UNIVERSITY LEIGHTON HOSPITAL CREWE Vary timetable
• 4 HANLEY BUS STATION AUDLEY/KIDSGROVE Vary timetable
• 25 Keele Hanley City Centre Newcastle, Stoke Vary timetable
• 6 (6A, 11A, 6C) Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove, King Street Stoke-on-Trent, Meir Park Tesco Whitehill, Packmoor, Longton Vary timetable
• 11 (12, 13) Hanley Bus Station Newcastle Bentily, Weir, Longton Vary route and timetable
• 22 Newcastle, Bus Station Longton Interchange Trentham, Blurton Vary timetable
• 23 (23a) Hanley Bus Station Longton, Interchange Fenton, Blurton Vary timetable
• 99 (97) Clayton Village Biddulph Wharf Road Newcastle Bus Station Vary timetable
• 21 (21A) Bradeley School Trentham, Pacific Road Vary timetable and route
• 101 Staffordshire, Stoke-On-Trent Hanley, Bus station Staffordshire, Stafford, Rail Station Trentham Gardens, Stone-By-Pass Vary timetable
• 32 (X32) Hanley Bus Station Uttoxeter Bus Station Cheadle, Alton Towers, Rocester, Denstone "Revised Monday to Sunday timetable
• Introduction of Alton Towers Service for 2017 season"

 

[Robertj21a]

If you use the Export as CSV button you can get the follow extra details (thank Vovlodart for finding out this gem)

• 5 Hanley, Bus Station Abbey Hulton Vary timetable.
• 8 (8a, 98) HANLEY BUS STATION ENDON FOUNTAIN SMALLTHORNE - NORTON Vary timetable.
• 72 Newcastle Bus Station Clayton Vary route and timetable
• 7 (7A) Hanley Bus Station Biddulph/Kidsgrove vary timetable
• 37 Meir Limedale Business Prk Hanley, Newcastle Vary timetable
• 3 KEELE UNIVERSITY LEIGHTON HOSPITAL CREWE Vary timetable
• 4 HANLEY BUS STATION AUDLEY/KIDSGROVE Vary timetable
• 25 Keele Hanley City Centre Newcastle, Stoke Vary timetable
• 6 (6A, 11A, 6C) Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove, King Street Stoke-on-Trent, Meir Park Tesco Whitehill, Packmoor, Longton Vary timetable
• 11 (12, 13) Hanley Bus Station Newcastle Bentily, Weir, Longton Vary route and timetable
• 22 Newcastle, Bus Station Longton Interchange Trentham, Blurton Vary timetable
• 23 (23a) Hanley Bus Station Longton, Interchange Fenton, Blurton Vary timetable
• 99 (97) Clayton Village Biddulph Wharf Road Newcastle Bus Station Vary timetable
• 21 (21A) Bradeley School Trentham, Pacific Road Vary timetable and route
• 101 Staffordshire, Stoke-On-Trent Hanley, Bus station Staffordshire, Stafford, Rail Station Trentham Gardens, Stone-By-Pass Vary timetable
• 32 (X32) Hanley Bus Station Uttoxeter Bus Station Cheadle, Alton Towers, Rocester, Denstone "Revised Monday to Sunday timetable
• Introduction of Alton Towers Service for 2017 season"

Thanks for that. Of course, as usual, the vague wording can hide a multitude of issues, big or small. Vary timetable can mean just tweaking a few minutes, or cutting it to 1 trip a day !. Varying route can mean cutting off all except a small bit.
There is a significant drop in pvr so there must be some big cuts in there - somewhere.

 

[Volvodart]

No great surprise, First East Scotland's Borders operations are being sold to West Coast Motors.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And I assume marketed as Perrymans?


Prediction: X95 will now split at Gala Bus Station with a high spec vehicle running the cross border leg of the run and something smaller and cheeper e.g a Solo doing the much talked about Edinburgh leg which First claim makes no money but potentially might work if managed well

 

[overthewater]

Yet the sell off keep on coming, but again no great surprise.

 

[THarris123]

No great surprise, First East Scotland's Borders operations are being sold to West Coast Motors.

So what depots are those exactly? Is that all the Edinburgh stuff? Livingston and Larbert or wrong area?

 

[overthewater]

So what depots are those exactly? Is that all the Edinburgh stuff? Livingston and Larbert or wrong area?

Border is: Gala depot and three outstations:

Larbert is Midland Bluebird, Livingston is West Lothian.

 

[robertclark125]

Although the firm will, most likely use the Perrymans trading name at Galashiels, this is, in a sense, a recreation of Lowland Scottish, as Perrymans have a base in Berwick upon Tweed.

 

[DunsBus]

Border is: Gala depot and three outstations:

Larbert is Midland Bluebird, Livingston is West Lothian.

First Borders also outstation vehicles at Hawick, Kelso and Peebles.

Hearing that some vehicles will transfer from First to WCM too.

 

[THarris123]

Border is: Gala depot and three outstations:

Larbert is Midland Bluebird, Livingston is West Lothian.

So Balfron and Banockburn (not sure if those are the actual depot names - taken from Steve Whites fleet list) are safe?

 

[THarris123]

I expect the coaches at Galashiels will probably head to Kernow, the deckers, E300s and BMC to other depots and some of the Scanias will be sold with others being moved to another depot.

 

[overthewater]

So Balfron and Banockburn (not sure if those are the actual depot names - taken from Steve Whites fleet list) are safe?

Yes there are also safe, There part of Midland bluebird. One would expect Livingston operations to move OP disk at one point. Mind you this sell off would explain the recent zone changes to the tickets.

I expect the coaches at Galashiels will probably head to Kernow, the deckers, E300s and BMC to other depots and some of the Scanias will be sold with others being moved to another depot.

Its being said now some buses are including in this deal.

 

[THarris123]

Yes there are also safe, There part of Midland bluebird. One would expect Livingston operations to move OP disk at one point. Mind you this sell off would explain the recent zone changes to the tickets.




Its being said now some buses are including in this deal.

I expect it'll either be the B9s or Scanias involved in the deal (or both). I highly doubt First will want to give up the E300s and considering the coaches are quite random ages too, I can see them staying with First too.

 

[overthewater]

I expect it'll either be the B9s or Scanias involved in the deal (or both). I highly doubt First will want to give up the E300s and considering the coaches are quite random ages too, I can see them staying with First too.

Remember Gala has school work, its impossible to second guess what might stay or go, since Perryman also uses E300.

 

[Volvodart]

Remember Gala has school work, its impossible to second guess what might stay or go, since Perryman also uses E300.

This is probably where some of Glasgow's elderly fleet replacement is coming from.

 

[THarris123]

This is probably where some of Glasgow's elderly fleet replacement is coming from.

That's what I was thinking, but it won't be much - the fleet list I have shows 42 buses at Galashiels and yet 229 buses at Glasgow which are 2003 and older.

 

[overthewater]

This is probably where some of Glasgow's elderly fleet replacement is coming from.

I cant see how it will make a real dent.

* 6 Coaches:
* 2 Volvo Br7
* 9 B9TL ( 57 plates)
* 2 B7TL ( 57 plates)
* 9 LB94 ( 55plate)
* 14 E300

I wonder what is used on the local No70, 71 and 72? I thought Gala still had some darts for those routes?

 

[ag51ruk]

Thanks for that. Of course, as usual, the vague wording can hide a multitude of issues, big or small. Vary timetable can mean just tweaking a few minutes, or cutting it to 1 trip a day !. Varying route can mean cutting off all except a small bit.
There is a significant drop in pvr so there must be some big cuts in there - somewhere.

The Crewe section of the 3 is reducing from 3 to 2 buses per hour

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I expect the coaches at Galashiels will probably head to Kernow, the deckers, E300s and BMC to other depots and some of the Scanias will be sold with others being moved to another depot.

Don't try and guess. Invariably, you'll (wider point not specifically addressed to you) be wrong. After all, no one was predicting that this would happen.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I cant see how it will make a real dent.

* 6 Coaches:
* 2 Volvo Br7
* 9 B9TL ( 57 plates)
* 2 B7TL ( 57 plates)
* 9 LB94 ( 55plate)
* 14 E300

I wonder what is used on the local No70, 71 and 72? I thought Gala still had some darts for those routes?

Maybe not a huge dent but even if, for example, just the Geminis and Solars move, it will certainly help as it did with some of the half decent Plymouth stuff moving to Kernow a year or so ago.